The Myth That Ideas Are a Dime A Dozen

Posted by khalling 8 years, 4 months ago to Technology
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db's article on Savvy Street: "In the long run, technological progress (i.e. inventing), is the only competitive business advantage. The best management team in the world selling buggy whips at the turn of the century could not overcome the technological advance of the automobile. The best management team in the world selling vacuum tubes in the 1940s, could not overcome the advance of transistors and semiconductors.
This country is littered with companies that had great management teams that were overwhelmed by changes in technology. For instance, Digital Computers had a great management team, but they could not overcome the advance of the personal computer. Digital Computers, Inc. failed to invent fast enough to overcome the onslaught of small, inexpensive computers.
U.S. steel was not able to overcome the onslaught of mini-mills, aluminum, and plastics. This was not because they did not have a good management team, it was because the management team under- prioritized invention and over-prioritized execution or dissemination skills. Ford & GM have not become walking zombies because they did not have strong management teams, but because they have not invented."
SOURCE URL: http://www.thesavvystreet.com/the-great-ideas-are-dime-a-dozen-myth/


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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 4 months ago
    I think we might disagree on one thing only - the definition of a good management team. A good management team would not have "under- prioritized invention and over-prioritized execution or dissemination skills."
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    • Posted by davidmcnab 8 years, 4 months ago
      A decent "buggy whip" management team would have first defined all its assumptions, including the assumptions that animal-driven transport would continue to dominate, and that whipping creates in animals an inducement to draw the vehicle more energetically.

      Then, members of the team assigned to reviewing such assumptions would have come across developments in mechanically powered transport, and then done a business analysis on the impacts from this. People on the team worth their pay would have then come up with recommendations to 'pivot' over to motorised transport interests.
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  • Posted by davidmcnab 8 years, 4 months ago
    Ideas -- even revolutionary disruptive ideas -- are a dime a dozen. However, teams who can create the organisation and funding to bring the idea to prototype, tool up for production, and position it for viable market penetration -- these are definitely not a dime a dozen.
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    • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 4 months ago
      "The electric light bulb, the cotton gin, the polio vaccine, the microcontroller, hell, the CAT scan, were all a dime a dozen.” Right - your an idiot -1
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 4 months ago
        The concept of creating light using a thin wire heated by electricity existed long before Edison worked out a way to make it practical and commercialized it by deploying light bulbs in prominent places.

        I am not trying to make some snide argument that ideas don't matter or in any way criticizing your article. I'm also not making some argument that once Edison found a practical realization of the lightbulb someone should be able to steal that technology.

        The lightbulb really was 1% inspiration 99% perspiration. Edison got capital, built a lab (ironically with large windows to let in natural light) where people could come work for no money but for a chance at being around greatness and possibly getting wealth by making a share of that. He risked real money to publicize his inventions and to work on new inventions, some of which never panned out.

        So what davidmcnab is saying rings completely true for me. Edison was a master at creating an org, creating prototypes, promoting technology at high-profile events, and tooling for large-scale production. Maybe we should call all those activities part of ideation, not "business" as if that were separate from invention. Maybe my confusion is in terms of what counts as invention and what is creating an organization.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
          part of inventing, for many inventors, involves the raising of capital to give them time to do their work. The idea evolves as the invention is worked out. Opportunity costs, trial and error are all legitimate aspects of inventing. I suggest, if you have interest, you read McCullough's excellent book on "The Wright Brothers." Everything begins with the invention. Edison was a master inventor. There were many lean years while he was a copious inventor-changing our world. He worked during the day as a telegrapher and invented at night. when he was fired from his teleph job, an inventor/mentor gave him a lab space to develop his first inventions-the stock ticker and an electric voting device. He was simultaneously working on an electric battery for an automobile. He hardly had the time to build a great management team. In fact, his lab is considered to be another great invention-the first modern laboratory.
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        • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 4 months ago
          Once again you show your ignorance of history. Yes, Joseph Swan had created an incandescent light bulb before Edison, but it was not practical. Two big problems with Swan's light bulb were that it had an incredibly low resistance and it had a very short life filament. As a result, it took another inventor (Edison) to invent a high resistance incandescent light bulb that meet all the requirements for a commercially practical light bulb Both men deserve credit for what they invented, but it is non-sense to suggest the light bulb was a dime a dozen idea or that it was business acumen that was holding back the incandescent light bulb.
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      • Posted by davidmcnab 8 years, 4 months ago
        I work in tech. I know. Raw ideas fly around all the time. The breakthroughs to which you refer substantiate my case, that only a tiny subset of ideas find the support of a well organised team to take the idea to prototype stage, then to a stage where production can tool up and scale up, and then to where channel partnerships and strategy can be developed to get it to market.

        I have programmed microcontrollers and used them in one of my own hardware designs. Nifty little beasts, sure. But they are just a marriage of existing microprocessor and PLC technologies. Minimal microprocessor (largely 1960s-70s architecture), plus support circuitry, together on a low-cost easy-to-deploy VLSI chip.

        The electric light was a marriage of two known phenomena - the knowledge that metal wire carrying sufficiently high current to heat it to a temperature tends to emit visible light, plus the knowledge that oxidisation can not occur in a vacuum.

        Many great inventions are simply novel (albeit often inspired) combinations of well established concepts. For decades I've been flooded with them. But to make it to market, they have so many hurdles to jump through.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
          sigh. all invention is a combination of known elements. Db knew personally the inventor of the microcontroller. He hardly thought his invention was "just" anything. never mind
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          • Posted by davidmcnab 8 years, 4 months ago
            I will acknowledge that the microcontroller is one superlative piece of engineering. Until its advent, we had to put up with microprocessors and their need for countless discrete support components such as RAM chips, flash ROM chips, bus controllers, ADCs, DACs, tri-state buffers, multiplexers/demultiplexers. The microcontroller reduced a whole board of components to a single chip needing barely more than a quartz crystal to support it.

            As great a work of engineering that the uController is, I do not class it as a landslide invention. It is no Rearden Metal.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 8 years, 4 months ago
    Sometimes innovation gets ahead of the market. If that Digital Computers, Inc was really Digital Equipment Corporation which specialized in mini computers before the PC, then it was not that they did not innovate for small computers, they did it too far in the future with the Alpha processor with 64 bit architecture which was much faster than processors from Intel and AMD. The problem was that being a more advanced processor made the selling price much to high. They innovated too well, if there is such a thing, and might not have considered marketability beforehand. In order to avoid that, that is probably the reason why smaller improvements are introduced periodically in products. Too much new might be too expensive to make a profit.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
      yes, it is certainly possible to be "ahead of the market." that is not the bigger problem. Including Digital-which tried to come up with processors after the fact. What they would have to do was a much larger metric than startups. either way, invention is the ONLY thing that gives you competitive edge, as long as you have a property right, your govt is willing to protect.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 4 months ago
    Sometimes, improvements on older technologies create new customers. "Vinyl" records are seeing a comeback among millennials because of the perception that digital sound quality isn't yet the match of analog. Vacuum tubes still have a market where demand for higher frequencies or power exceed the capability of solid state. The tube technology is highly resistant to electromagnetic pulse that fries solid state equipment.

    Even the much maligned buggy whip hasn't gone away. The population of consumers is just smaller.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 4 months ago
      hey, Dr. I think the point is not niche markets but disruptive technology :)
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 4 months ago
        Understand. I was just pointing out that even companies without those disruptive technologies can be successful if they provide perceived value to customers.

        There are many creators of disruptive technologies who've failed from a lack of management and marketing skills. I know this from experience, having invested in several such firms, strictly because they'd created something new and of great value, and botched delivering it to the customer base.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      or wood stoves and pumphandl pumps. Two sources are Lehman's Non-electric and Cumberland General Store. They deal specifically with Gulcher types who are really Survivalists and Amish Mennonites. Excellent quality but much more spendy than Great Great Great Grandma spent
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      Vinyl Market started that the day AFTER digital hit the streets.

      My kid once found the 45rpms and the 33s and 78s behind the sliding doors of the full blown sound system shelves. Looked at the 45 and said 'i didn't know they made hard floppy discs?

      After some lessons with the equipment guess who advance inherited the lot and still operates it with now not 500 but four times that in vinyl. Most bought earlier if they passed the no scratch testl.


      I grew up in the 50's plus.
      Long before the Magic Bus
      Became a digital collective
      A set of ears was the prime objective
      I'm glad I'm glad I'm glad
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  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 4 months ago
    If I may personalize, I as some of you know claim to make the best sleeping bag in the world, the best sleeping ever made since the inception of sleeping bag manufacturing.
    This did not just come about magically. I started in the business world selling insulations for use in outerwear. eventually I was selling my insulation to companies that made sleeping bags as well as outerwear. The more expensive makers turned to Polar Guard the very first and still only continuous filament fiber for use as am insulation. Today it is Lamilite with Climashield.The company I represented made it. I learned that quilted chopped staple fiberfill had to be quilted and the quilt stitching were cold spots. I then said what if we laminate it to eliminate the cold spots. But the chopped fiber would not work but then I tried the continuous filament fiber. It did work. So I bought a sewing machine and sewed up sample sleeping bags to show the companies I sold fiber to advising them that the best way to use the Polar Guard was to laminate it. No cold spots better insulation. Not a one believed me. There are other reasons to use it but you can read that on my web site. The idea to do this and actually make a useable product was 8 years in the making; i.e that was the time frame it took for me to get an education about all aspects of insulation from how it is made etc. The proof of how well my sleeping bags perform can be seen by reading the multitude of testimonials that I have received and continue to receive. Long after I am gone people will still be using my bags and if my heir can keep the company going they will continue to be sold. db is very correct good ideas are NOT a dime a dozen. When my patent attorney did the necessary research to see if my bag was patentable he sent copies to me of all those already patented. Of about 15 only one other bag patented was made and sold. It was originally patented by a company known as Alp Sports or Alpine Designs one and the same. They never made the bag but North Face did, It was known as shingle construction. Enormously expensive construction and it never worked but TNF sold them on their reputation. I do not think they make that construction today, makes no difference, bad product.
    It is my belief that good ideas for products used by people are diminishing because the younger generation thinks by the age of 14 they know it all.
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    • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 4 months ago
      To add more. I DID NOT know how well the bags and clothing would actually perform for 20 years once I started selling product, and where did I get my education on its performance capability from personal use but it was better when my customers told me of their experiences, many of which I would never personally experience.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
      As an aside were aware of the problems that faced LOCO maker of Loco rucksack systems for the military market. Sold world wide but turned down int the US until Picatinny or Natick I forget which re-introduced it as one of their designs.

      The LO was Al Lowe son of Lowe Alpine Systems and the TO Was Tom Cook a a retired Special Forces trooper. They manufactured in Emoryville California and also made quilted vests and i think sleeping bags for Columbia or one of the similar brands until US Labor costs stopped that. One could get the China/Malaya etc articles off the ship in Alameda for less expense.

      I didn't see the government protecting their patent rights and innovations however onthe Loco Mark III
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      • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 4 months ago
        this is all new to me, I knew the Lowe brothers but did not know they engaged or tried to the military. I may have know Tom Cook but do not recall. Any way the currecnt backpack is a Arctyrex design. Made by Propper in Puerto Rico. As for sleeping bags I am dominant with SPEC OPS or possibly exclusive today, but as for Natick while they bastardized what I made for the which has continually failed they are coming around to my way of thinking; it is slow but happening. They also recognize they have a VERY BIG problem with boots as in goretex. That may also change in a year or two.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 4 months ago
    Very well said. The enormity of private property protection including patents cannot be overstated. But I might add that something else has to be considered--and that is a culture that welcomes the inventor, that recognizes the accomplishment of the individual, that supports the self esteem necessary to think that this idea of mine is important enough for me to actualize, that celebrates the genius and hours of work required to envision the idea and make it real--and such a culture takes pride in the protection of private property.
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 4 months ago
      Cultures don’t actually do any of these things, individuals do. It may seem a minor distinction, but it’s an important one because our political opponents personalize “society” to make similar-sounding arguments, such as “a caring society is one that meets the needs of the poor.”
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 4 months ago
        I appreciate your clarification, but I'm not making a political statement. Ayn Rand speaks of culture as follows:
        "The acceptance of the achievements of an individual by other individuals does not represent “ethnicity”: it represents a cultural division of labor in a free market; it represents a conscious, individual choice on the part of all the men involved; the achievements may be scientific or technological or industrial or intellectual or esthetic—and the sum of such accepted achievements constitutes a free, civilized nation’s culture. Tradition has nothing to do with it; tradition is being challenged and blasted daily in a free, civilized society: its citizens accept ideas and products because they are true and/or good—not because they are old nor because their ancestors accepted them. In such a society, concretes change, but what remains immutable—by individual conviction, not by tradition—are those philosophical principles which correspond to reality, i.e., which are true." “Global Balkanization,” The Voice of Reason, 119 (emphasis added)

        The point I'm attempting to offer is that protection of private property arises from individual natural rights acknowledged and accepted by the group of individuals one associates with. Rights still exist regardless of the association involved, but protection of any rights relies on philosophical principles--not political (governing power) manipulations. It's interesting (and a bit disheartening) to see so much of the space and verbiage on this site devoted to the discussion of gaining or maintaining governing power (the ability to enact law and use force) rather than to the understanding and application of philosophical principles that support freedom and economic gain.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 4 months ago
          Protection of rights relies on philosophical principles and the implementation of these philosophical principles in legal and political practice. The “discussion of gaining or maintaining governing power (the ability to enact law and use force)” is absolutely on point here – philosophical principles cannot “support freedom and economic gain” unless they are implemented by “gaining or maintaining governing power.”
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          • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years, 4 months ago
            And therein lies the rub. It's difficult to imagine a group of Objectivists, egoist, creators wanting, striving for, gaining, and manipulating for that governing power. Can an Objectivist be the governing power, and if so how is he chosen and controlled once selected to such position? We've never satisfactorily addressed that question on this site, at least to my satisfaction. The conflict between wanting to gain and maintain government power vs living an Objectivist, laissez faire capitalist life, seems at first glance to be overwhelming.

            Rand seemed to deal with the conflict as she did in the quote provided above "The acceptance of the achievements of an individual by other individuals does not represent “ethnicity”: it represents a cultural division of labor in a free market; it represents a conscious, individual choice on the part of all the men involved; the achievements may be scientific or technological or industrial or intellectual or esthetic—and the sum of such accepted achievements constitutes a free, civilized nation’s culture." It is the acceptance of the achievements by other individuals by conscious, individual choice on the part of all men involved.

            That acceptance cannot be forced nor "implemented by the governing power" gained through political whim or even party battles. We've seen the first attempt to implement by the governing power in the founding of this country, and it failed--spectacularly in many measures, from it's first day of existence--and it failed as the result of the failure of the intellectuals and institutions to maintain philosophical principles of individualism and laissez faire capitalism, as well as the compromises ceded between the Federalists and the Anti-federalists and to satisfy many other parties in order to get the Constitution accepted. I think that's why Jefferson saw the need for a revolution each generation--as a necessity to deal with those that sought and gained that governing power.
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            • Posted by $ CBJ 8 years, 4 months ago
              Judging by the amount of interest and discussion on political topics, there are plenty of Objectivists (including many on this site) who would be willing to defend and advance their philosophical principles by becoming presidents, governors, mayors, legislators or judges. One of the heroes in Atlas Shrugged, Judge Narragansett,is attempting to make needed corrections to the U.S. Constitution by the end of the novel. http://www.conservapedia.com/Judge_Na...

              Not everyone has to become a businessperson, inventor, writer or artist in order to be creative. Objectivists can likely be found enjoying successful careers in any legitimate occupation. If government is necessary for a free society to function, then participating in government (including making improvements to its framework, as in Judge Narragansett’s case) is an honorable career for any Objectivist who wishes to pursue it. The alternative is to abandon the creation and implementation of public policy to power-lusters such as those who dominate most areas of government today.
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      • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 4 months ago
        The distinction between a culture and an individual is major. there is no such thing as a collective mind. unless of course you are speaking of politicians who have taken their minds and collected them in a trash compactor. individuals can and do accomplish things cultures do no.
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      • Posted by EdGoldstein 8 years, 4 months ago
        We are witnessing today that cultures can destroy productivity and innovation. How long will innovation continue in a near 0 growth economy? Especially one that is stealing so much in taxes for rat holes. Obamacare is destroying growth and stealing from the successful in a huge tax called a health insurance policy. Innovations come with economic growth.
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      • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 4 months ago
        There are only 3 cultures on Earth: hunter-gatherer; agrarian; industrial. In hunter-gatherer culture, there is NO concept of property at all, and everyone lives off the land, pretty much as the animals do. In agrarian culture, there exists property and inheritance rights in LAND or its equivalent, and there exists the beginnings of civilization as we know it, viz., government, reading, writing, counting, law, calendars, etc. In industrial culture, there exists property and inheritance rights in IDEAS, along with the necessary infrastructure to support them, like universal education, patents, trademarks, capital markets, all operating to create a virtuous cycle of innovation (including invention), which is the hallmark of industrial society. Each one of these cultures act as software in a society, which is why they're incompatible with each other. THAT is the role that culture plays in society, but it's up to each individual to make use of it to the best of their abilities. There can be no software that induces behavior that's counterproductive; we call such instructions "bugs." Ergo, socialism and other forms of interference are viruses that create bugs in an otherwise workable system.
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    • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 4 months ago
      The principal objective of liberal-progressive politics is the acquisition of power and the legalization of theft. Under the "progressive" ideology the establishment of a new aristocracy ruled not by those with ideas but by those with "pull".
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 4 months ago
    A reference to Digital Computers - Wow! This takes me back to when I used one of those computers to put together a database so that a Century 21 agency could snail mail the first "This house just listed or sold in your neighborhood." Now all you have to do is get on Zillow!
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
    In 1989, when we closed our camera shop and photo studio, it was just a few years before the coming of digital photography. I remember touring the vast Eastman Kodak establishment in Rochester, New York. The impressive labs, the massive darkrooms, the camera manufacturing facility. Then, there were the developing labs spotted all over the country producing slides, color pictures and enlargements. All gone. Kodak is now a mere shadow of its former self My fabulous Nikon outfit, and Hasselblad outfit with their lenses and accessories -- useless. It was a sad day when I realized that I had to go digital At one point, we had an entire color lab in our basement. When the BW shot a wedding we produced all the photos ourselves, which took many hours. A task we could now do in less than a tenth of the time. Fortunately for us, 1989 was a good time to get out of the photography business.
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    • Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 4 months ago
      The inventor of the digital camera worked at Kodak. Management just tried to bury the invention. http://www.businessinsider.com/this-m...
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      • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
        Instead, the invention buried them.
        My wife and I spent years honing our craft. She traveled to the Professional Photographers school in Indiana, I built a color darkroom, we kept up with the latest techniques, won prizes (Her) BUT when Kodak offered to finance the building of an automated color lab in my store, I grew suspicious. In any case, I looked down the road and decided that the day of the unaffiliated camera shop, photo studio or anything to do with photography had its days numbered.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
          I miss my old C330 for 110/220 and the creativity of Ansel Adams applied with thought, skill and imagination. But all three of mine and the cell phone are digital. Sigh!
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          • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
            Are you referring to a Mamiya C330? If so, I sold many of them. A good workhorse of a camera.
            As for Adams, he schlepped big old view cameras up mountainsides and cliffs in order to get just the right angle and waited until the lighting was just the way he wanted. If he wasn't happy he'd camp out in his van until he got the shot he wanted. Then, he'd spend as much time in the darkroom getting the print just right. It is rare to find that kind of photography today.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
              The one with the one lens over the other one yes my best portrait camera and the old Kodak twin lens reflex wasn't bad. I'm supposing they are collectors items now. thinking about 33 rpm vinyl pushed a memory button.
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              • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
                The Mamiya was the first dual lens camera with interchangeable lenses. It allowed for different lenses because of a built-in bellows for focusing. Built like a brick shithouse, it was a staple for many professionals.
                The king of 120 film cameras for many years was the dual lens Rolleiflex whose biggest advantage was its smaller size and light weight. It was supplanted by the single lens reflex Hasselblad.
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
                  Memories even at Post Exchane Catalog prices the C330 was the best I could afford. It was hard not to take great pictures the difficult became the cost of film an developing once I no longer had the use of the on post hobby and crafts shops. That difficulty is the one and only advantage with digital. Instant pictures i know can do 8,000 on one setting with my digital which is also waterproof to one atmosphere 33' and fits in my pocket a boon for smaller sailing vessels restrictions on what can and can't be brought along.
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                  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 4 months ago
                    It was very hard for me to give up a craft that I had become an expert in. My knowledge and expertise still held up regarding the hardware such as lens quality and pixel resolution, but frankly, the need no longer for setting stops and shutter speeds, determining the right film etc. is something I miss.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 4 months ago
    It helps to get a government bail out when the corporation has been driven to bankruptcy by a poor management team. Speaking of GMC did they ever pay back our involuntary loan?
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