I heard him make the same comment at the libertarian debate. He's wrong. He had another way out of that. That was to say, no, the gov't can't force him to make cake, but it wouldn't be smart business move. No one has a right to cake. His point was, what if a utility company could deny someone electric service. Well, that's different because you can't go elsewhere for service.
I don't agree with Gary on everything, but I agree with him more than I do the other available options.

I think he actually said under current law they are forced to sell it but not decorate it. He said he does not want to support a change to that law in a way that would make it easier to descriminate. Here is the link: https://youtu.be/fnewhxt7jE0?t=27m15s

He stutters and dances around this issue a bit because he does not want to give critics a sound bite to suggest his libertarian ideas a veil for or part of someone's agenda to discriminate. He won't explicitly say gov't should force people to sell a cake, but he wants to avoid any accusations that he wants to support discrimination.

I think we need to change the whole notion of gov't force being the default, and if we not using gov't force against something we must support it. We need to be able to say we're opposed to drug abuse or discrimination w/o wanting gov't force. We need to be able to say we're for helping the poor and supporting cancer research without the gov't being the one to fund it.

Johnson can't seem to make these philosophical arguments in the TV show forum. It's "discrimination: for or against?" He says "against".

While we are struggling with this, Trump and Clinton are openly saying they want to use gov't to help good people like you and punish bad people who are different from you. We should cut Gov Johnson some slack. He's not a natural at politics, which is a good thing. He's trying to say he's against discrimination in a way people hearing a sound bite will understand.

" I will govern according to the Constitution, regardless of the political consequence." "I will order investigations - to be available to the public, into all extra -Constitutional actions by the previous administration." Those are the words of a leader...too bad one isn`t running.

FOF (disguised as those in support of freedom)! I am inclined to believe that we have more to dread from those claiming our values than from those who openly, and with full cognizance of the logical consequences of their premises, mouth their evil.

To join the LP, one must agree that initiating the use of force is wrong. In the “Libertarian Debate” on Stossel, McAfee got the message and nailed Johnson. Johnson sounds more like a neocon than Libertarian to me.

To me, this election is not Trump v Hillary because there are too many other things at stake.

The Supreme Court, for example, Hillary regards Ruth Bader Ginsburg as her model Supreme Court justice, and I think Ginsburg is one of the worse ever appointed. Trump's nominees (he named 11) are all approved by the Cato Institute, a think tank to which I give high respect.

This same thing will happen down the line of regulatory agencies such as the EPA, Labor Board, etc., all of which have been strangling business even more than taxes have.

As for the defense of the United States, Peace through Strength, the Eisenhower policy, will be the Trump policy. I expect Trump will, like Ike, Nixon, and Reagan negotiate with enemies and adversaries from a position of strength. But negotiate. Hopefully Trump will make Russian an ally to go after ISIS and America's endless wars will come to an end.

Where Clinton will continue all of the policies that produced the unacceptable present, Trump will get rid of as much of the Establishment (Dems and GOP) as possible and change Washington as it has not been changed since Ronald Reagan rode in from the West.

Therefore, I think we need rally around Trump.

That comment was made several months ago. It is so likely he made a blooper in his thinking, and said the wrong thing. What I find disgusting is that anyone from this community could find fault with that after seeing the all the shit fly through the rest of the campaigns. Gary Johnson is so very much the best choice out of all candidates this year, needs your support.

I agree. I would have answered differently. But, the laws vary from State to State. As a hobby shop owner I refused to sell glue to and obvious 'sniffer' (in FL) and doubt I could have been forced to sell that.

My point of view is, we shouldn't be so critical of of Johnson's verbiage. We really need to get out the vote for him, not provide ammunition for the opposition.

If a Muslim Terrorist came into the bakery, after he blew up 300 babies and children, raped their mothers and cut the testicles off the Police, I would have to bake a celebratory cake according to Law

After all we shouldn't discriminate based on race or religion according to law. If he was a gay Muslim would that clinch it? What if he blew off a leg. Now he's handicapped too.

You think I am kidding? there are people out there who could believe this.

If he were a Republican Muslim Jihadist would it be OK to refuse service? Democrats would think so.

When kids are arrested in elementary school for DRAWING a stick picture of a gun or making a gun outline with their fingers, it should be a red flag taller than Mount Everest that this society is broken, with no standards to operate by other that what is Politically trendy.

Is it moral to refuse service to someone that your religion tells you is a sinner? Is it moral to force the baker to serve the customer he despises?

There is no answer because the United states Mores are nowhere to be found and therefore useless as a guide. that is why you have so many opinions and in the end force is used based on what the ruling Political Party feels they can get away with to get re-elected.

That is not morality, it is corruption of the entire concept of moral standards.

IMO no law that Congress or the Supreme court has passed (Yes Supreme Court decisions are effectively creating law by rejiggering the meaning of words in the Constitution and it's Amendments and creating something new) under the influence of Political bias are valid.

There would be no need for enforcement of Law if there were real standards that we could all agree on and base our judgement on.
But that Libertarian idea is impossible without those standards. And without teaching those standards to our children and not allowing anyone into office that does not respect those standards.

“Politics is not a separate field in itself. Political ideas do not come out of thin air. They are the result of the moral premises which men have accepted. Whatever people believe to be the good, right and proper Human actions – that will determine their Political actions“. – Ayn Rand Screen Guide For Americans

Here is my contribution to defining those standards for the United States. See what you think. http://02f8c87.netsolhost.com/WordPre...


The law lack any common sense. Discrimination is an essential component of a rational mind.

so much for liberty from a libertarian candidate for president...

Johnson has said he thinks a guaranteed min income might be a good idea.

Forget him.

Besides business not being forced to give a service other than when paid for, a business can not use government to stay in business when the business discriminates against potential customers by religious-political beliefs. One is in business to serve customers and sometime that means getting a bit of bile in you mouth. I had to put up with a lot of nonsense in my business. I only quit one elderly woman because I let politics get in the way. She kept wanting Universal Service so that certain miscreants would be put into proper their places. I just could not let that pass, considering that the draft, after a great political fight, had recently been stopped in favor of a voluntary military.
The whole idea that somehow an association is enough to pass evil to another is a very primitive way of seeing reality. Got a business, do the business and serve your customer and save mental reforming for later. If dealing with a gay couple will harm you in some way mentally, then you have an integrity and self esteem problem.
As an atheist, I have dealt with theists all my life. Should I have avoided dealing with them? I have a gay brother. Should I stop being his brother and disassociate with him for the rest of our lives? I have an alcoholic-drug addicted brother who had stolen my identity which got me arrested until the police could collect some fines to take off the cuffs. In that case I have not associated with him for over 30 years mainly because he still considers me to be the cause of his life going bad and why it was OK to threaten to kill me on several occasions.
In business you serve any customer who is civil and not threatening in some way. In a way, business ethics is divorced from certain personal beliefs. E.g., one does not concern oneself with the personal value structure of the customer. You give him the benefit of the doubt as one should do to any stranger and even those whom you know.

What? How does that make sense? That would be such an obvious ploy that I don't think the baker could get away with it.

Ever notice how many businesses have a sign about their 'right to refuse service to anyone'? Noticed one last night.

Johnson is less than perfect. But he's a lot better than the big two; and Hillary is going to take my state in a landslide anyway.

I wonder what the media would say in response if either Trump or Hitlery said the same thing that Johnson said.
My guess: media would ignore the subject because the topic only divides people who think about it and most people don't take the time.
Serious consideration of real issues is purposely missing from POTUS elections, because the media concentrate on what divides the voters instead of solutions to impending financial and ethical destruction of America.

One might do what they will but by no means do we need to endorse, encourage or participate in this behavior...it sets the wrong example for others and may even tempt one that may be confused into that behavior.
So here is your cake, without names or figures...you can get those down the street.
Problem solved.