Chocolate in The Gulch

Posted by Eudaimonia 10 years, 9 months ago to Economics
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In a recent post by Mimi, jbrenner asked if there were any chocolate makers among us gulchers.

That got me thinking if something as specialized as chocolate could be made in an actual Gulch.

Chocolate depends on cocoa and cane, neither of which I believe grow in temperate zones.
What's more, most chocolate makers do not make their product from scratch, rather they get their raw chocolate from places like Belgium

In order for chocolate to be made in The Gulch or a Gulch, it would have to be completely made and sourced locally.

So, how might it be done?

Hot house plantations?
Cane substitutes like maple, beet, licorice, or stevia?
Cocoa substitute like nut (walnut) or root (carob)?

What would your answer to this puzzle be?
Remember, chocolate is a very high bar to meet.


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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 9 months ago
    I think the answer lies in the assumption that all of the world's producers had gotten to the Gulch at the end. More likely most of them had gone underground in their own countries in the same way that the intellectuals of the dark ages made their way into the monestaries. Ragnar would have known who and where they were and how to trade with them - using gold as a means of exchange..
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
      I don't know if I'm a real producer, but I'll use anything as an exchange. If hire someone to solder boards, buy some software, hire someone to help at the house, make something cool, invest the profits in tech companies, invest those profits in local real estate and my wife's business; ALL of that can be done in Mexican pesos, Pounds Sterling, gold coins.

      Getting people excited and about work and getting them on productive things that people will actually buy at a profit able price is very difficult. Finding a medium of exchange is trivially easy.
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 9 months ago
        "Finding a medium of exchange is trivially easy" Wrong. Mexican Pesos and Pound Sterling.are debt issued by central banks in concert with the other members of the G7, G8, or G20 whichever you prefer.Gold, in whatever form, is money and will be, along with silver, the only means of exchange in the near future. Either you do not understand this difference or choose to deliberately ignore it.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
          I have no idea what the money of the future will be. I'm pretty sure it's not precious metals. In any case, it does not affect what my vendors, customers, nanny, etc like to use today.

          I completely do not understand the difference in media of exchange, as long as whatever you're using is widely tradeable, not to heavy to cart around, decays in value along a predicable line, etc.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
    The only answer I know of is trading, but I'm sure circumstances will lead to improvisation. Here's how I imagine a world of successful Gulches over a hundred years from now. I know many people say a Gulch must be secret, but I imagine them being trading partners and facing an on-going struggle to retain their autonomy.

    Gulches called "free states" spring up in different places. Some of them go through a series crises when they have conflicts with the nations and multinational companies of the world. These crises shape their food. When US blockades jbrenner's community on St. Kitts is embargoed in a dispute over US expat income taxes, people occasionally smuggle in Hershey bars from FL, but eventually they grow their own sugar and make chocolate from scratch. It's odd that a taxation dispute lead to a new type of chocolate.

    The tax dispute spreads to other allied free states. During the 20-mo siege of Abenzone, they averaged 600 calories per person per day. This is when they invented gasuppe, which is watery soup made with potatoes, a few mg of whatever amphetamine you have, and whatever meat you have that tastes like chicken. Long after the siege over 70% of the population drinks a little 120ml cup of gasuppe made with two oz of chicken and 15mg of dextroamphetamine for breakfast first thing every morning, and usually doesn't eat again until a large supper right before bed. Abenzoners consumed a lot of chocolate before the Siege, but now they consume less than other places.

    The hundred or so people living in Zdorov'ye Station in low-earth orbit threaten to stop their drops of medical supplies they fabricate in zero-gee, but no interruptions occur.

    Friedman City, 100 miles east of San Francisco, manages to stay out of the dispute. In addition to being famous for software, they're also a playground for the rich. They never had any shortage of chocolate.

    Friedman City is the free state everyone loves to hate. You know a Friedmaner right away because the long E sound sounds like short I, making steal sound like still. But they all stand together when threatened by the old states because even after three generations they know a few bad decisions could mean they all get sucked back into the old states before they know what happened.
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  • Posted by iroseland 10 years, 9 months ago
    These days making chocolate is not as hard as it used to be. My wife is a pastry chef and really into chocolate. So, we go to the big trade show out here every year. These days you can buy table top bean to bar equipment. Which means that you only need the beans. That is where it gets complicated. They only grow between 20degrees north and south. In the US the only place that has been made suitable to grow the stuff is Hawaii even there its difficult because its actually right on the edge of being too far north. But, there is a pretty well liked artisan chocolate company there that holds bean to bar classes. As for the gulch, it would need to establish its own trade routes and play the part of Rome on the silk road.
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  • Posted by SolitudeIsBliss 10 years, 9 months ago
    Oh my GOD ! Give me chocolate or give me DEATH !!!

    Death by Chocolate.....

    What is the point to life if there is no chocolate to sweeten it?

    Figure it out !!!! It is a MORAL IMPERATIVE !!!!
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago
      We'll get it done, SolitudeIsBliss. As a chemical engineer, I could make chocolate if necessary, but I would rather make something closer to what I am most skilled at. By the way, go on the behind-the-scenes tour at HersheyPark. It is a great tour for either an engineer or a chocolate lover.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
    I love thinking about a Gulch. IMHO a Gulch would be much more effective if it had trade with outsiders. It's the whole production possibilities frontier. You get really good at producing a few things, and then you can trade it for all the diverse things you want in the world. The premise of the book, though, is that the rest of the world would steal your stuff if they knew where you. In my Gulch fantasies, the Gulch is remote enough and its citizens are armed enough that it's easier just to trade with them than to steal. The looters would be constantly conniving to tax or confiscate what people in the Gulch produce. They tax the investors, which indirectly affects Gulch residents. But they can't go there and put a gun to their heads and demand they innovate.

    I'll answer the question in another post.
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    • Posted by preimert1 10 years, 9 months ago
      Sounds sort of like Switzerland.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
        Yes. I love they way they have average citizens trained to defend the country. I really think they weren't kidding when they wrote about us having a well-regulated militia and minimal standing army. Every law abiding citizen should be encouraged to have guns and/or tools for emergency repairs and medical treatment. People from all walks of life, IMHO, should have to go get training all together, to build cohesiveness among races, regions, urban/rural, young/middle-aged, etc. You don't have to get training in fighting if you don't believe in it, but you get training in something related to helping in an emergency. I would do training in getting the power grid back if someone dropped conductive fibers. People would be free to use the training they get in jobs or businesses to make money for themselves.

        I've heard Switzerland adopts elements of this.

        America should go back to being a Gulch, which is how I think of it in the early days when the fastest messages took a month to cross the Atlantic. It was FAR from perfect, but they really had a spirit, I think, of trying new things, solving problems, and doing things without regard for what others think.
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        • Posted by preimert1 10 years, 9 months ago
          They still have a reputation for fine watches ...and chocolate. But the looters got to them on bank secrecy and coerced them into disclosing US account holders to the IRS.

          But it reminds me of a story about the rivalry between German and Swiss precision machinists.
          The Germans milled a perfect cube of steel and drilled a micromillimeter hole in th center--so small that they didn't think the Swiss would find it and just concentrate on the orthoginal precision. About a month later the Germans received the cube back with a "?" The Germans had a good laugh about the Swiss not even finding the small hole, but a few days later the had to exclaim "Ach du leiber" when they found that the Swiss had threaded it.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago
        There is a lot to like about Switzerland. Their government is bigger than I would like, but Switzerland is perhaps the closest to a producer's paradise of any country in the northern hemisphere.
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