12

Should parents be forced to vaccinate children before they can attend school?

Posted by richrobinson 8 years, 7 months ago to The Gulch: General
143 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I saw an excellent presentation last night on the risks of vaccination and health problems including autism. Most States currently require vaccinations in order to attend public schools. The argument being if parents don't vaccinate their kids then other kids are at risk. The problem appears to be the number of vaccines being given at the same time and at a very young age. The speaker made it clear that she was not anti-vaccine but wanted all parents to be able to make informed decisions. I don't have kids so I was never faced with this decision. It would seem logical to allow parents to opt out of many of these vaccines if they wanted. It is possible to get exemptions but it seems the State is making it harder and harder to do that.


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 7 months ago
    Please understand that there are drafted mandatory vaccine schedules that WILL be forced on all adults in the US. This is in the works. This isn't just about "other people's kids". The current fights like SB277 in California are just the camel slipping his nose under the tent. They're going to get you, folks. Want your Social Security, to fly on an airplane, to have a job, to drive a car? Well, we need to ensure that you too are making sufficient sacrifices to ensure "herd immunity".

    You heard it here first...most likely. Remember that.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 7 months ago
    I think private institutions should have the right to determine their enrollment criteria, which may include vaccinations. Because the majority of the laws force public education, however, I don't think they have a similar right. One can not say that participation is mandatory and then lay down a list of other things someone must do. That's coercion.

    The problem is that they let the government get away with it in the Obamacare rulings. :S
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
      I am finding that a lot people feel vaccine safety is a settled issue and they oppose any opinion to the contrary. Not sure why???
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 7 months ago
        I think most vaccines used to be safe. But I look at the mounting evidence and suspect shenanigans on the part of the government in introducing things into the vaccines. So I fully support those who don't trust the government.

        The other part is that the list of mandatory vaccines is growing. Chicken pox is one. I want kids to get chicken pox. Yeah, they might be miserable for a couple of days, but then they are over it and their body gets practice defending against invasion. Same thing with flu vaccines (which are a crock anyways because of the sheer number of strains). The other one that drives me crazy is the HPV vaccine. Hello - just don't sleep around! You'd risk your fertility on a vaccine? Stupid!
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 7 months ago
    Medical science does not back what the presentation said, but people should be free to choose a vendor (a school in this case) that does what they want. I would strongly prefer a school that requires vaccination on a scientific evidence-based schedule.

    Kids not getting vaccinated is a bad idea, but it is nothing like child abuse or anything the gov't should be involved with in any way.

    The fact that gov't runs the schools means what should be a personal issue becomes a topic for political debate.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years, 7 months ago
      I agree. This is an issue of free choice. The only thing that muddies the waters, as it does with many, many otherwise clear issues, is public schools. To that, there is only a political, therefore non-principled, solution. Eliminate public schools, "public" buildings etc and this issue goes away. As would the idiotic bathroom controversy and so on...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
        Pennsylvania wants the requirement to include all Public, Private and Home Schooled children. I would like to see a breakdown on how important all these vaccines really are. If they are so necessary then why would we so willingly accept thousands of refugees who probably haven't had 10% of these vaccines if any at all?
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
      The connection between autism and vaccines may be anecdotal but it's enough that parents should have greater control over their use. A bill in Pennsylvania would require all school age children be vaccinated. The bill includes public, private and home schooling. I would strongly oppose that.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 7 months ago
        BTW, I don't dismiss the idea of weighing the costs vs. the benefits. I can imagine a scenario in which a vaccine is proven to be safe for everyone except those with some other medical condition. Suppose this vaccine can stop a plague that's killing many people. If everyone who can tolerate the vaccine takes it, herd immunity will stop the plague. Maybe the gov't would be right to use force to make people who can tolerate the vaccine to be vaccinated to protect those who want the protection but can't tolerate the vaccine b/c of another medical condition.

        This is completely hypothetical. My point is parental control is not absolute, so I see what you're saying about parental control being a function of relative risks of getting vs not getting the vaccine.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 7 months ago
        " I would strongly oppose [mandatory vaccination of all school age children]."
        If you agreed with me that vaccines are safe and are in no way connected to autism, I suspect you would still oppose mandatory vaccinations of all school-age children.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
          Yes. It's a freedom issue now.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 7 months ago
            You DO have the freedom to require your child to live in a restored iron lung for the rest of their days. If you can find one. Because that's far better than subjecting them to a vaccine against polio, which may cause them harm...

            Of course, the Spanish Flu was in the past, so let's forget that... after all, a simple flu bug can't wipe out 1/6 of the population... right?

            Thank you for believing that forgetting history is the best way not to repeat it. I'm sorry... but my kids were vaccinated... as were my grandkids... and they didn't turn into retarded idiots from it...

            Even better... I know autistic kids... that were not vaccinated, because their parents "didn't believe in it".

            I don't need the government to tell me to vaccinate my kids... seeing older people in iron lungs who didn't have vaccines back then, when I was a kid, was enough. Visiting the graveyard where my in-laws family are buried - where there are a LOT of death dates in 1918 and 1919 -

            I don't have to trust the government. I have to trust my common sense, that asks "do I want my kids dead from something I could have stopped"? What I REALLY don't trust - are a group of non-scientist guessers and conspiracy theorists telling me not to vax my kids because they don't think it's good, or they think it may cause this or that... because their aunt Millie said so... because she read it on an internet forum...
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 7 months ago
              Today's vaccines are not your granddaddy's vaccines and they only got a few...also remember, they weren't sheltered from dirt and germs when they were kids either...being exposed to your environment helps the body, your immune system to adapt. Children today no longer have that option.
              Also note, some bloodtypes are more vulnerable to allopathic intrusions than others...no one considers all possibilities.
              I am among the most vulnerable to allopathic idiocies...my body, left alone, does light years better on it's own. Bloodtype B seems to handle most of what allopathic intrusions dish out where as an O, non secreator does not.
              We are all so very different...but they try to treat us the same out of laziness and ignorance.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
              I was vaccinated in the 1960's. I received a total of 3 injections. Today there are 55 total injections with 29 coming at 2 years and younger. Why can't parents question if they are all really necessary. Why can't they be spread out over a longer time span? Why give a new born a hepatitus B vaccine? Does it not seem logical that at least some kids won't tolerate all those injections at such a young age?
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 7 months ago
                Careful. That's called "thinking". It leads to questions.

                I don't discuss what I learned publicly anymore. But, in the right setting, I enlighten. My most recent audience was a senior democrat Assemblyman who, after hearing what I had to say, broke ranks with his party and voted against forced vaccination.

                When in doubt...look at what Objectivism says. It works for a reason. Funny how well it meshes here.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 7 months ago
                29 injections before the age of 2? What for?

                I can think of 4 or 5 - maybe - my grandbabies had. Hell, when I was in the Service (and on World Wide deployment status) I had... 2 or maybe 3 hyposprays and 4 or 5 actual needles initially - it was all pretty quick. That was to protect me from most shithole fevers and contiguous plagues. I got 2 more shots when I did get to go play outside the 3rd world... So that a 2 year old would have had 29 injections sounds a little high... unless it's those mutated molecular viruses from Venus that the aliens brought in... or they got bit by a rabid rat or something.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by TheOldMan 8 years, 7 months ago
                "...55 total injections..." ?!?!? Where do you live? In Calif, my three children have never had 55 total injections and they are now in their late teens.
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
                  Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                  • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 7 months ago
                    According to that chart... we should all be dead. Probably of polio or Rubella or some other disease we were always told "One time and you're good to go". Serious - 4 boosters of everything? And repeated boosters on top of that?

                    How on earth did our founding fathers live to be 10?

                    Yeah, I kinda see why people are talking about overvaccination. That schedule reminds me of the Michelle Obama Food Pyramid and school lunch mandates and making sure the parents Orwell, er, are well indoctrinated in fear.
                    Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
                    • Posted by 8 years, 7 months ago
                      I've been thinking if the vaccines could be categorized in order of importance then parents could decide how far they wanted to go. When I first heard about this I was thinking about the shots I got. A lot has changed since then.
                      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 7 months ago
              "You DO have the freedom to require your child to live in a restored iron lung for the rest of their days."
              I agree with all the facts in your statement. Vaccines are victim of their own success. They've stopped horrible diseases and now people don't think stopping diseases is that important. You mention the 1918 flu pandemic. It's beyond living memory.

              I think we should err on the side of being nice to anyone in favor of liberty, even if what they're doing seems like a mistake, and even if it incurs costs on others, e.g. decreased herd immunity.
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 7 months ago
      "Medical science" hasn't done proper testing and the industry of "medical science" irrationally believes it has a vested interest in never doing such testing.
      Don't confuse real objective science with testing biased to get FDA and AMA approvals.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 7 months ago
        "Don't confuse real objective science with testing biased to get FDA and AMA approvals."
        If you get funding, do the testing, and find a breakthrough, that's what's science is all about.

        If we ignore it unless there are no biases due to patronage issues, we just give up on science. The answer to every objective question becomes "consider both sides of the controversy because we don't really know anything because our values and biases color everything."
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 7 months ago
          Excellent point. There was a study that took infant monkeys and subjected some to the current CDC childhood vaccine schedule while also including a control group. This has never been done with humans, by the way. This study published two papers. Then, those two papers were scrubbed from all publications and the internet and the study vanished. I spoke with one of the doctors on the study team and read both papers (I think I still have the first one in my files).

          Want to guess what that study showed? Go ahead. I'll let you know if you guess right or not.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo