"Self Evolution" Choices facing Humanity

Posted by DrZarkov99 10 years, 8 months ago to Science
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Technology has sort of sneaked up on us, without our recognition that we may be the first Earth creature to determine its own evolutionary path, and that may not be a desirable result.


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  • Posted by 10 years, 8 months ago
    Well, this is embarrassing! I attempted to post my full paper on self-induced human evolution, and apparently the post failed, despite assurances that the file would be included.

    In a nutshell, humans are willingly affecting their future development by a variety of means, without any kind of insight as to the implications. Genetic engineering is rapidly improving to the point that we may soon be eliminating certain kinds of genetic disorders, and extending the healthy human lifespan. While that sounds like a good thing, the improvements are likely to favor the rich, as such procedures will be expensive. Does this mean we will have a serious class divide between an upper class of "superhumans" and a less healthy, shorter-lived underclass?

    Bionics seem to be proceeding on a more equitable basis, mainly due to the large numbers of war veterans with serious physical disabilities. Paraplegics are beginning to see the hope of walking, and efforts to enable the blind to recover sight are making strides. The question is where do these efforts stop? If I can use technology to gain night vision, or super hearing, who decides who benefits?

    Marrying human brains and information systems to create a near-infinite knowledge base sounds good, but could such a system be hacked? If such a system created a new class of group mentality, with multiple humans sharing more intimate contact than the superficial "Twitterverse" we see now, what kinds of danger lies there?

    For the individual who refuses to participate too deeply in this new, ill-planned world, will he be shunned or denied privileges available to those who willingly join? We see this to an extent now, with a steadily decreasing ability for the non-computer literate to communicate, so it seems inevitable.

    That's the short version of my original paper. I was hoping to get some response and recommendations about how to deal with this impending "singularity" (to use Kurtzweil's name for an impending unknowable future).
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
      Regarding the benefits of biomedical and genetic engineering only favoring the wealthy, this will be true in the short term, as it is for every field going through major innovation. As a biomedical engineer, my research and development projects focus on how to make tissue engineering cost-effective for the masses. Undoubtedly it will be funded by the wealthy for now, as I am the rare professor who refuses to seek government support since I read AS about 5-6 years ago. I wouldn't worry about the unfairness issue. It will be resolved in the long term. I would be more concerned that Obamacare taxation will keep people like me from commercializing on such technologies. I am personally withholding that (in a Galtish way) until the next era when people like us are appreciated again. It was an interesting question to ponder, though. I appreciated the topic being brought up.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 8 months ago
        Thanks for your response. I do hope there will be individuals like yourself who think beyond the next research dollar.

        Being Objectivist does not allow indifference to the implications of the sociological impact of rapidly-arriving biotechnology. All of us will be affected, in one way or another, as our world gets reshaped.

        Our government demonstrates its monumental incompetence every day, and I don't think government bureaucrats have a clue what's in store with societal changes soon to arrive. As information explodes across the population, the government is tempted to try to control that information. The NSA monitoring, and the attempts to predict who's likely to commit crime are just a fumbling start.

        Obamacare will either morph into something like the UK NHS, or be replaced. Inevitably, any kind of government-controlled medical care engages in resource management, limiting choices, except for the wealthy. We have a two-tiered system now.

        Getting too long-winded. I wanted to see what others thought.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 8 months ago
          Too few, I'm afraid. And that next research dollar comes with a political agenda, so the research will be slanted in favor of that in order to garner more research dollars.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
          There will be a huge sociological impact of rapidly-arriving technology, including biotechnology, and as those capable of inventing such technology, we do have an ethical responsibility to ensure its proper use. Along these lines, many companies, most notably Google and Facebook, have business plans that count on the reality that the era of privacy is dead, and so your point, DrZarkov99, is very well taken.
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years, 8 months ago
            we have clients who are diligently working on technological solutions to ensure privacy in these very areas. so, I think it is like any disruptive technological area that nudges Ethics. there must be a moral approach. However, I get pretty frustrated when that impacts some lifesaving technology such as stem cell research. Those who oppose it seem to root for the demise of those who need such research to advance.
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            • Posted by 10 years, 8 months ago
              It takes a little digging to determine motives for people's positions. Clearly many of those opposed to fetal stem cell research consider fetal demise a form of abortion. Likewise, many of those most enthusiastic about fetal stem cell research are fertility clinics, who see excess fetal cells as a revenue source.

              Looking at the science, much has been promised from fetal stem cells as a solution to things like Parkinson's. Unfortunately, the biggest experiment using fetal stem cells on Parkinson's volunteers failed, unpleasantly, when the implanted cells went cancerous. So far not much practical has resulted from the fetal stem cell effort.

              Adult stem cell research, on the other hand, has had a number of successful treatments for cell-related disorders (over 50 approved the last time I looked). The one edge adult stem cells have is that in many cases the stem cells can be coaxed from the sufferer's own tissue, which eliminates the rejection problem. Just like fetal stem cell research there have been failures and over-promising, but generally the adult cell lines have had more successes, and are certainly less controversial, ethically.
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            • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
              The stem cell debate should be over. Whether you agreed with George W. Bush or not, his policy to not pursue embryonic stem cell research directed researchers toward other alternatives. The ability to "reverse engineer" stem cells into "induced pluripotent stem cells" developed by Yamanaka is a better alternate to embryonic stem cells because it eliminates the need to use someone else's stem cells, thereby minimizing the potential for immune rejection. In the end, the ethical debate about stem cells is now a moot point.
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              • Posted by iroseland 10 years, 8 months ago
                Yes, it was an accidental result. But as it turns out taking embryonic stem cells off the menu was a good idea. The result is we now have a much better understanding of how stem cells work, and the work that has been done on immunology as a result of not being able to pursue what's was seen as easy tissue replacement.
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              • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 8 months ago
                Embryonic stem cell research utilizing chord and placental cells is still ongoing and many parents choose to have their child's saved for future possibilities.
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                • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
                  As long as it is parents choosing to have their child's cells saved for future use. I don't have a problem with such use. I do have an ethical issue with the way that it had been in the past; to me that was anti-life. I'm sure there are plenty who will disagree, but the ability to generate induced pluripotent stem cells solves a lot more problems than it creates.
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                  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 8 months ago
                    Yes, we now have grown in situ heart valves, heart muscle repair, grown on a scaffold vagina, grown on scaffolding lung, etc. The possibilities, combined with new work on gene therapy and epigenetic studies are almost unimaginable. Humans may well have a life span greater than a century in just a few years.

                    I personally think we're quite aways short of designed evolution, but it will come, whether we think of it as right or wrong. I suspect it's already being tried, but epigenetic findings and fossil DNA has set back some of the confidence in pure DNA manipulation. If a human can imagine it, we will try it and it strikes me as a logical step in our evolutionary process.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 8 months ago
      I think that we are a long way off from genetically engineering humans. We nearly daily find that we don't know as much about DNA as we thought. We may make some attempts at genetically engineering humans, but those attempts are bound to have detrimental consequences. And what is the morality/ethics surrounding the intentional creation of defective human life? I encourage continued research and better understanding, but it is the ultimate hubris to think that we can effectively "play god" in creating human life.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
        We aren't that far off actually. I was at a fundraiser on Friday and Saturday for the Vaccine and Gene Therapy Institute (VGTI). We are already starting to do limited repairs of some chromosomal abnormalities in rats. I'm 47, and I expect some attempts at genetic engineering of humans in my lifetime.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 8 months ago
          Which will be utter failures. Just recently I read something about the protein structures in the DNA helix being totally new and utterly complex, with multiple layers of encoding.

          I support the development of the knowledge, and believe that we will use it to better the human race. But it is extreme hubris to believe that we will be able to control life and ultimately to create it from scratch.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
            We won't be able to control life and create it from scratch without making a lot of mistakes first. I certainly have no such hubris. As humans, we are like 2 or 3 year olds trying to mimic what has already been perfected. I know I am far from perfect, but I am being made more perfect every day.

            The most difficult challenge is preventing such life from becoming cancerous. The key control variable is vascular endothelial growth factor, or VEGF.
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 8 months ago
              Yep. And we need to continue such scientific inquiry, for we can and should do what we can to improve the state of humanity. But we will never get to a state where we can take basic molecules and turn them into a living creature.

              btw - that hubris thing wasn't a shot, merely a lament that there will be those who think that they can play god, and will in the course of that effort create monstrosities.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 8 months ago
      Some of these issues are applicable to any revolutionary technology. I'm thinking of hunter-gatherer society thinking about adopting agriculture or and agricultural society thinking about adopting industry. The revolution will drastically increase production and create a whole new set of problems.

      Stopping the development of technology, though, seems impossible and undesirable.
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  • Posted by SolitudeIsBliss 10 years, 8 months ago
    Technology has NOT sneaked up on us. We've been evolving along with it ! And we can choose our own evolutionary path only to a certain degree since there are a myriad of factors that affect evolution.
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  • Posted by 77nomads 8 years, 8 months ago
    I like write up. Since when is anything man done is not ill-planned? Can you site anything long term that mankind has planned? Mankind is semi self deterministic. Your posts are fun. I work in tech. Everything we do seeks to emulate ourselves. As an engineer I have in my head a way to run a hundred machines. The mind of men still rules. The fact is that the system needs less of us in manpower. We already have the class divide in ability. Not so much genetics but lack of will to work hard. I was not the brightest bulb in the box. I worked hard for it.
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