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"If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but immoral when experienced by you?" - Ayn Rand

Posted by GaltsGulch 8 years, 8 months ago to The Gulch: General
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"Why is it moral to serve the happiness of others, but not your own? If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but immoral when experienced by you?" - Ayn Rand


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  • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 8 months ago
    seeking the virtue of altruism leads to self-denial and
    the depression of happiness lost ... contradicting
    human nature is never a good idea! -- j
    .
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 8 months ago
      "Contradicting human nature"--If human nature is to act to satisfy one's needs and values (by whatever means), then insert "serving others" as a factor of self-happiness. Meme engineering. Mind control. Teaching masochism. Equating self-denial with virtue. People are so malleable because molding oneself to the standards of the group is also part of human nature. Unless you've been inoculated with a dose of volitional consciousness and uncompromising rationality.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 8 months ago
        groupthink, peer pressure, conformity and all of that
        tend to drive people toward "equating self-denial with
        virtue." . human nature is revealed in a small child
        crying for mom's milk and nurturing -- it's natural ! -- j
        .
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  • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 8 months ago
    One's own enjoyment per se is no sin, nor crime.

    Now: it depends on what one enjoys. And I suspect those who scream the loudest about people "immorally" doing something for their own enjoyment, themselves "enjoy" making you miserable. That's not moral by any stretch.
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  • Posted by $ Stormi 8 years, 8 months ago
    When someone tries to sell you on serving the happiness of others before your own happiness, they want you controlled by others as they have learned to be. However, there is the issue of our pursuit of happiness, is it as Galt would have defined it, or is it really temporary pseudo-happiness which may be self-destructive?.We have to watch to avoid the influence of others and we have also to watch for our own self-deception.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 8 months ago
    Retired old dino is all into the enjoyment of me, myself and I. Nyah!
    I raise my tail over all who do not like it. Double nyah!
    There should be a couple of Netflix DVDs in my mailbox today.
    And I'm gonna enjoy them all by myself.
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  • Posted by Dobrien 8 years, 8 months ago
    In my world I myself determine what I value and I respect others right that do the same. I don't project my morality on others , It is wasted energy for others to try to manipulate mine. I admire the creative greatness in humanity. I try to be courteous, operate with conscience and I value civility .Everybody has a right to Life , love Liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 8 months ago
    It's not immoral experienced by you...it's a liberal leftest argument...a denial of self...their self is made up, (ego), and they must sense that somehow so they project on everything, everyone besides and outside themselves. This what I describe as: "Brain only"--no connection to a mind.
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 8 months ago
    It's the double standard that is a distortion of the "golden rule". The golden rule is the formula for trading for mutual benefit. Because of the prevalence of exploitation, in nature and in historical events, people tend to think that if you serve your own happiness, it can only be at the expense of others.

    You're supposed to be made happy by making others happy. They overlook in all this that interactions with others are a two-way street, and that your voluntary consent is required unless human civilization is to be based eternally on slavery. Unfortunately, Christians have nailed this meme into place through the redemption myth that Jesus sacrificed himself for all of mankind, and this meme, along with its dependence on a God belief, is the stickiest shackle on human minds. All enjoyment is deemed sinful and an affront to the suffering of our alleged savior.

    Manipulating people emotionally and psychologically to put others first is the basis for the kind of altruism that merited Ayn Rand's strongest wrath and fervent, life-long denunciation.

    This double standard bootlegs in the defective value that all should live only for the sake of others. The grievous fallacy of that is an infinite regress, because if you accept being made happy by others, you are again at fault by allowing yourself that selfish act.

    Just say no to any who would thus scam you, and shame them for their intellectual hypocrisy, just in case they can still be turned around.
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