HELP

Posted by coaldigger 8 years, 9 months ago to Culture
35 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

Men of the mind need to rescue humanity by phases. A philosophy that provides a morality and a society based on reason cannot be individually adopted by a large enough mass to make a difference. The nth degree of intellectual inspection of the philosophy will never be embraced except by the very few. All of the “isms” have a narrative that can be grasped by those with little time or desire for complete understanding. Elementary Objectivism needs to be spoon fed to the common man. Intermediate Objectivism needs to be made available for professionals and producers in other fields that are immersed it other things. Advanced Objectivism needs to be the realm of the philosophers and those that have retired from endeavors that require a large portion of their time. It is important not to practice intellectual snobbery with concepts that can have so much benefit to mankind.

I’m not advocating Bible stories or the sloganeering of Marxists and Fascists but I don’t think the musings of Peikoff, Kelly, Brook, et. al. will ever gain the attention that even a Trump or Sanders get on the popular stage. I don’t think the world has ever been so out of control morally. Christianity has waned. Islam has been hijacked by terrorists. Jews, Hindus and Buddhists don’t have much influence on the world stage. So, without a morality based on religious principles, we have no compass and drift along on whims and fads. All social philosophies have their scholars but those that have impact, make a case with the least common denominator. True, they use fear, shunning, violence and other means of coercion to create and control their converts but education, mass communication and understanding of how people think and behave has improved over the last 2-3 thousand years.

It is hard to know if Ayn Rand’s books changed the thinking of people or mostly provided elegant supporting illustration of the truths they were coming to on their own. In any case, it is not good enough to grow Objectivism by the incremental discoverers of Atlas Shrugged. It is not enough to have a forum for intellectual discussion that attracts a select group of would be philosophers. America, in particular, needs a simple approach to an Objectivist moral code, a Ten Commandments and rural, common preachers of rationality.

This election campaign makes it pretty clear that people just want to be led with as little thought on their part as possible. When interviewing Sanders’ supporters, few have any concept of the definition of Socialism. Trump has no ideology and his people don’t care. Cruz is pandering to the ignorant while showing as little of his intelligence as possible. Rubio is a pretty face that is good at memorizing talking points (except when his needle hits a scratch on the record and keeps repeating). If this clown show is what people will accept, it should be easy for a truly smart group to create a front man to disguise an agenda based on Objectivist principles. It seems to me that this has been done on behalf of contrasting principles with some success.


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • 11
    Posted by khalling 8 years, 9 months ago
    Rand has more influence than you know. Her books sell hundreds of thousands of copies per year-much to the consternation of the Left. In fact, liberal rags like Salon and HuffPost use her name in articles 2 or more times a week-they know her name trends high on Google.

    Inspiration for Objectivists:
    "Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark in the hopeless swaps of the not-quite, the not-yet, and the not at all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish in lonely frustration for the life you deserved and have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won. It exists. It is real. It is possible. It is yours". Ayn Rand
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      Too slow. Too much left to chance. ARI distributes thousands to schools and just about anyone that wants them and most don't come close to getting the message. We are already living in the Gulch in our minds. Producers are withholding or are discouraged from reaching their potential which is a strike even though it is not a total stoppage. My oldest son has owned a very successful business for almost 25 years. He grew it out of the back of an old Toyota that I had bought for the kids to learn to drive on. He did work that competitors did not want and he did it with excellence until he was in demand in his market and could pick and choose jobs at his price. Regulations, taxes, Obomacare has caused him to reduce his business to a level that supports his lifestyle, employing as few people as possible. He turns down profitable business every week and 100 or so workers and supervisors don't work there anymore. He is just being rational and reacting to the conditions he is faced with. How many more are there? How is the world that we live in less prosperous and pleasant because of this? His company could be many times larger and he would be gratified by the accomplishment while incidentally employing many more people and providing excellent service to clients.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 9 months ago
      Thank you KH - I have that quote in my office, backlit and facing the door for all to see... it usually gets a glance or 2 a week and someone will comment on it at least monthly.

      I don't believe I can agree with the premise in the original post, eg " Men of the mind need to rescue humanity". Maybe I am misreading it, but when I first saw it I equated that the LMS (Looter/Moocher/Socialist, eg "sheeple") class are in a way demanding we producers are required and mandated to help them... and I reject that out of hand, for the same reason I reject someone trying to help an addict break his or her addiction by forcing them to stay away from whatever their addiction is, rather than leaving the choice (and responsibility) to the afflicted.

      WE can show the LMS class a better way, but they and they alone are responsible for their rescue, much as someone who is drowning has the responsibility to grab a lifering or put on a floatation device. I'll throw them the ring, I'll show them where the vests are stored, hell, I'll even teach them how to swim... but if they do not want to save themselves, it is not MY responsibility to save them for themselves.

      I did do that for a living - talked jumpers down from bridges - for a number of years, but you soon realize in that business if someone's gonna jump, they're gonna jump, and it's THEIR responsibility (and consequence) for their actions, not mine, whether they decide to go down the slow way or the fast way... I can only give them options. When I first started they taught us to take "proactive steps" to haul a jumper down, and every time (until I realized how stupid it was!) I ended up getting injured, or damned near getting pulled off the structure (TG for the belts we had then).
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
        I agree with you Susanne but the sheep outnumber the shepherds by a huge margin. They eat all the grass in one meadow and then die of starvation. I live next to that meadow and many more like it. It smells and fosters disease. The sheep sometimes break my fence and ruin my lawn. I want them to live and provide meat and wool for my use. Therefore I want them to have good shepherds to lead them to new pastures, to guide them in their purpose and prosper from harvesting sheep products. There may be a sizeable population of worthless sheep that cannot be managed, so let them go over the cliff. The rest, however, need leadership, a rescue, for their and our sake.
        My main point is that if I insist on only speaking to them in the most elegant French imaginable, they are not going to get it.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
    I agree with all of what you said except ... the first sentence. We do not need to rescue humanity. Those who are worthy of getting up out of the mire will do so on their own.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 9 months ago
      There are some that desire to exit the mire but just need a hand up...these are the folks Franklin, Jesus and many others throughout history were talking about.
      Some will only get to that point until they have fallen to the bottom.

      I do have a profound appreciation and admiration of Mankind and I have always feared our demise. I don't know why, and I've pushed it aside for most of my life, it wasn't fashionable. I can no longer ignore it, I have before me the slightest of chances to make a difference.

      That is the only reason I try my best to articulate the Big Picture view I see and objectivism is part of the force that holds these big picture puzzle pieces together.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ jbrenner 8 years, 9 months ago
        In the parables regarding Jesus, Jesus' "miracles" involved people who asked for help or who asked his help on someone else's behalf. Jesus helped pull them out of the quagmire, but only did so after they or their family members reached out first.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 9 months ago
          All of that requires engaging a quantum event.

          How to tell if someone wants to and has the ability, with a hand up, to succeed in creating or producing value for self is difficult to tell.

          I have to laugh at the left or the social Justus freaks pointing fingers at the rest of us when many times it's the community that has already identified those that want a hand up or those that just want a hand out.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 8 years, 9 months ago
    I think the great mass of people live from day to day. They are concerned with the necessities of life and dont have a lot of time to ponder philosophical questions.

    If we want to educate these people to more fundamental questions, its necessary (in my opinion) to reach them where they live.

    I say that defesting socialism will depend on showing how it DOESNT WORK. Shortages of goods, inferior goods, high prices, etc. We have to show how capitalism has produced more of what people want. Today, socialist programs arent required to be accountable- they need clear goals and then accountability in achieving those goals with the money provided. Failure of them is just chalked up to "not enough money". That excuse has to be just discounted as a way to excuse failure.

    High dudgeon speeches from Galt just wont cut it, I think. We have to show what really happens- like in Venezuela.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 9 months ago
      Rather than showing how socialism doesn't work, we need to show how capitalism does work. The story of the industrialization of America has been hijacked by socialists. For example, we allow the term "robber barons" to be applied to the folks who built this country, so right off the bat, we're allowing a negative emotional picture to be drawn around them. Another thing that's not addressed is the fact that America's industrialization took place in a DEFLATIONARY environment; everyone today seems to think that deflation is bad, but it was in that deflationary environment that America's greatest growth occurred. That's why, when the "robber barons" cut peoples' pay, there weren't riots and revolution. That's because the cost of living in year 2 was LESS than the cost of living in year 1; that's what deflation means. This is also supported by looking at the cost of goods and services from year to year from the 1830s to the 1930s. For example, when Carnegie began making steel, it cost $120/ton. By the time US Steel was formed, steel was $13/ton. The equivalent occurred in virtually every industry, and on top of that, the quality of virtually everything skyrocketed; not only was it cheaper, but it was better. Explaining all this in terms of classical economics, using the reference points from classical economics, is what should be shouted from the rooftops. Instead, all we hear are crickets. By allowing the socialists to hijack our history, we've lost before even beginning. Only by telling the truth about the industrialization of America, using the proper metrics, can we then prove that the current beliefs about economics are false. We need to tell the truth about our past.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 9 months ago
        I don't think we need to show/explain how capitalism works - I don't think most people give a hoot. I think we need to show capitalism 'working' and strong high-tech heroes fighting against images of socialism: bread lines, no choices, hopeless lives.

        Most people are not interested in philosophy. What we need from them is their ability to support the fabric of our society...and their general good attitude towards capitalism and individual freedom. They have been taught in school that business is evil, that the environment is god, that altruism is the mark of the high quality, trustworthy, person. This is what we have to 'undo'. We need positive images to communicate with people who do not live (want to live or even need to live) an intellectual life.

        Since we are the outliers, we are the ones who have to extend ourselves to communicate. This is why we have come together on a site that originated to talk about some movies.

        Jan
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by term2 8 years, 9 months ago
        But if we dont show FIRST how socialism doesnt work, I suspect the great mass of people will just look at the freebies they get and be happy with that.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 9 months ago
          The proponents of Socialism do not care that "it does not work." What motivates them is their embrace of the underlying moral code that festers under Socialism's "politics." Unless or until said moral code, what a good friend calls "The ABC's of Morality," where A=altruism, B= Brother's keeper, and C=Common good, then Socialism is seen as fulfilling such moral prescriptions far more compassionately and "justly" than does Capitalism.

          In coaldiggers original post he unwittingly acknowledges such things with his comment "So, without a morality based on religious principles, we have no compass and drift along on whims and fads."

          That is the premise that must be riveted upon by those who wish to reverse our decline into the abyss. The idea that morality can only be found through religious principles. I would argue that they must only be found through the application of reason to Existence and man's relation to it and as a part of it.

          Toward that end, Objectivist philosophy and Judeo-Christian philosophy do share at least two important moral tenets. First, both point out that Man, through his power of choice, maintains moral culpability. Second, it is also jointly acknowledged that an objective code of morality is possible and Man must strive to identify it.

          Of course of incalculably profound significance, that is where agreement ceases and Judeo-Christian "ABC's" arise.

          Conversely, it is where the unimpeachable right to one's own life that Objectivist philosophy teaches, with its highest moral virtue to live it as one determines, rises to challenge such religious-based moral tenets.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
            I am sitting here laughing at myself. I actually concocted a post to say we must have a moral code based on reason and a means of delivering it to the masses, to replace one based on mysticism to have any hope of turning away from the abyss. The humor comes from presenting the idea so clumsily it seemed to be unwitting.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by term2 8 years, 9 months ago
            I would argue that if I imagine I am a member of the unthinking masses, I would just look at what I get from the socialists and what I get from capitalism. If the socialists keep giving me bad tasting cookies for example and they are always in short supply, and the capitalists have available good tasting cookies which are commonly available, I would tend to think capitalism is the better system- froma totally pragmatic point of view
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by dwlievert 8 years, 9 months ago
              I would suggest you check your premise term2. If practical benefits "trump" (no pun intended) morality, Atlas Shrugged would have never been written, this forum would not exist, and the various "isms" would not have been given birth,
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
              • Posted by term2 8 years, 9 months ago
                I think your point is well taken. I think that a large part of the great mass of people live in the world of "practical" and we could help turn them from socialism by pointing out that it's not working in practice
                Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by mspalding 8 years, 9 months ago
    I like the idea of 10 commandments. Communications gurus say 9 items is the most you should have in a list. But either way, if it was easy to remember or read, and if allowed people to quickly say whether something was moral or not, it could be useful. We could sell it as the 9 rules for a happy prosperous life.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 9 months ago
      The first one wasn't about a guy in the sky as one might understand on a conscious level.
      Many tend to "worship" many things that are not intrinsic with how nature and creation were designed or intended.
      That's all that is meant by the first commandment and it has more to do with your priorities of appreciation than the pagan concept of worshiping some entity in fear of consequence.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 9 months ago
    Digger,
    I believe every word you say is true. Over the years I have experienced the frustration of enthusiastic groups getting together, discussing, and the dissolving away like matzo ball in chicken soup. But I still believe in that spark that glows within people of the mind who are devoted to reason. All fires start with a spark. Sometimes it takes decades, for the fire to ignite to a blaze, but we owe it to ourselves, if not humanity to keep the spark alive so that it gets to be the "idea whose time has come."
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LibertyBelle 8 years, 9 months ago
    Promote Objectivism "in disguise"? Give people a
    "Ten Commandments"? So they will repeat by rote
    a catechism, with simple stories? And what will
    they learn then? To use their minds independently,
    and be rational?!

    ---Oh, please.
    The answer is not to return to the late
    Middle Ages, or Protestant Reformation.

    It will be good if people influenced by Objec-
    tivism (I think Ayn Rand called them "profes-
    sional intellectuals") would make movies, or
    write works that were consonant with Objectiv-
    ism, and point to it as their philosophical base, while giving her credit for any quotes. As
    to simple people and children, it would be good
    simply to teach them rationality, and wait until
    later (that is, until a child were adolescent, or at
    least pre-adolescent) to get explicit about a
    philosophy.

    As I said, the home school movement could
    help, if it were infiltrated by Objectivists.

    And if it were possible to start an Objectivist
    college or university--maybe people could be
    persuaded to contribute to its foundation. (It
    would be necessary to be careful about who got
    the money, and not be taken in by "schleppers").
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 9 months ago
      There is a school in Michigan called Hillsdale College that is an advocate for free enterprise and espouses many ideas congruent with Objectivism.
      As to the spread of Objectivism, you are correct. It cannot be taught by catechism without becoming something other than Objectivism. Even the name "Objectivism" isn't sexy enough to attract the great unwashed. It is a philosophy that is practical in application, but requires thought and effort to espouse. To sloganize it by giving out ten second squibs or other devices for unthinking popularizing would be to defeat it at the outset. Those inspired by Rand must rise to Objectivism rather than Objectivism lowering itself to them. This is not snobbery. It is integrity.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by teri-amborn 8 years, 9 months ago
    The first step toward change is to realize that something is wrong.

    Metaphysical change is a change in your view of reality. Usually an epistemological sea change follows thereafter.

    Teaching people to reason will be a real challenge. Giving them parameters or guidelines might help but are no substitute for teaching them how to think things through.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 9 months ago
    The issues are complicated in ways we yet to understand in an integrated way. It's precisely what I write about: the upside down paradigm and it's not just intellect or even a confoundation of everything, it involves electromagnetic interference's, health, genetics...on and on and on.
    Everyone has a trigger that produces a "wake up call", assuming one is not genetically incapable, and there are creatures like that in this world. Problem is, there is no algorithm to identify all the different triggers.

    If we were to concentrate on the obstinate, those stuck in a meme or level of awareness...we might have better luck with obvious articulated or physical examples over time.

    Question is...do we have enough time on our side to make a difference before we become trans-humanized humanoids without a mind.

    The latter is why "I" find John Galts speech so profound.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 9 months ago
    Even the basic "reality exists," contains a philosophical element beyond the understanding of most people. I've had more luck using an Aristotelian approach, questioning people about their positions, forcing them to determine the facts. With a reasonably cogent audience, they eventually arrive at a realization that logic and facts make choices in life much simpler and rewarding.

    What makes me skeptical that Objectivism will register with the last couple of generations is that they have a distorted view of rational thought and facts. When I use the term "rational thinking," I mean a reliance on traditional logical processes, but today it's been distorted to imply "rationalization," a foul word that misuses the idea of rational thinking to distort facts to fit a compartmentalized justification for whatever position you care to promote.

    I have heard "but those are YOUR facts" far too frequently in recent years. Academia has force fed the idea of relativistic morality and the superiority of emotion over logic and facts for about fifty years, polluting the mental engines of the past several generations. Even though I'm over 70, I can find members of my senior crowd who espouse this kind of dysfunctional thinking.

    Don't try to save the world. Just help the willing to find their way. The cream will naturally rise to the top. My experience is that talent and drive has been crippled by a society that discourages individuals from overcoming challenge. If you can show even a few that they aren't dangerous, despite what society has told them, we all will benefit.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ Snezzy 8 years, 9 months ago
      Indeed, when not selling the idea of proficiency in mathematics ("What's 6x9?") I casually mention Aristotle vs Plato. Most who have had a liberal-arts education have heard of Plato and his Cave of Shadows. Few know anything about Aristotle except maybe that he believed heavy objects fall faster than light ones.

      Rand is hard to sell because she's attacked by derision. Those who have heard of her (but not read anything) have heard, "Anyone who would believe that junk is naive and stupid. Get real!"

      I sell Aristotle. Right now my favorite part is in the first few pages of the Politics where he almost predicts that machinery will replace slaves. I keep a copy of selections from his works in my Throne Room to read when seated on the Euphemistic Throne.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by blackswan 8 years, 9 months ago
        It's unfortunate that Aristotle's belief in eventual industrialization didn't take hold by the time of Hero's engine. The Greeks understood that that engine would make possible an industrial revolution, but they declined it because they didn't want to give up their slaves. Imagine, if we'd had an industrial revolution over 2,000 years ago, Star Trek wouldn't be fiction today. The difference between us and Star Trek is what we (humans) gave up because of perverse incentives. Just think about that.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by tdechaine 8 years, 9 months ago
    A "front man" is a good idea in theory. But he would have to go through the political ranks to reach a position respectable to the masses. That would require hiding those views that are in contradiction with those masses. E.g. have no public record of being an atheist, state from the beginning that he believes in the separation of church and state to the extent that he will not discuss religious matters beyond showing support for complete freedom of religion. Etc.
    It would be difficult, but I have envisioned it being possible.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
      This may have been true in the past but I think the electorate is so angry now that they will vote for "other" and that is the reason Sanders and Trump are in the race.. Really bad ideology or none at all is preferable to more of the same. No matter who is elected from this clown show is going to make anything better so they will still be thrashing around in 4 years. I would like to think that would present an opening for the "front man" and his band.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo