Galt's Gulch
11

Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson, sends a powerful message. Who here is not moved by it?

Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago to Politics
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This is the message we've been waiting for. The opening scene looks familiar.
SOURCE URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STn0eDYSens

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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 10 months ago
    What could we do right now to get him more exposure? My thought is if a) people hear about him now and b) the parties nominate Trump and Sanders, and c) Johnson does not have any skeletons in the closet, he has a shot. The idea would be the other two are crazy, and here's someone who won't push any radical new initiatives. It would still be a longshot, obviously, because it's hard to imagine breaking the R/D duopoly.
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    • Posted by Kittyhawk 8 years, 10 months ago
      To get Gary Johnson more exposure, you can do anything from sharing his video and website on social media and in emails, to volunteering for your local Libertarian party to make calls or knock on doors to hand out campaign literature, or put a bumper sticker on your car and a sign in your yard. And of course spread the word in person to family, friends, people in the store checkout line, etc. And donating to his campaign so it can buy ads is always an option.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
    I see one problem with Mr. Johnson, and just now I find it insurmountable.

    Libertarians suffer from a failure of enemy identification. They cannot recognize enemies external to the society. To them, we have no enemies save those we make.

    Anyone who has actually read the Koran, or the Communist Manifesto, knows better.

    I quote Ayn Rand herself:

    "Just as the United States had the right to invade Nazi Germany, so also does the United States have the right to invade Soviet Russia, or any other slave pen." Especially when the slavers prepare to invade us.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
      Its a matter of priorities, Temlakos. Do you trust the statists to do what you think is wise after 50 years of betrayals? By comparison Johnson and the libertarians are fantastic. The statists think everything can be solved with force and threats of force. Libertarians think most things can be solved with free market success. The US military is not going to disappear under 4 years of a libertarian president. Neither will the espionage army of the CIA and NSA. The GOP only survives because they instill unwarranted fear.
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      • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
        What plan has Gary Johnson to raise a militia and train it properly for homeland defense, and, when necessary (and don't say it's never necessary; Thomas Jefferson solved a lot of problems by sending Commodore Preble to clean out the Barbary Pirates), to carry the war to an external enemy? A lot of good "free markets" will do you if you trade one albatross for another--exit internal "oppressor" (or even thief, which I'll grant you the present regime is), enter invader--and have no plan for dealing with said invader when--not if--he arrives.

        Muslims care neither a fig nor a date (the edible kind) for free anything, much less free markets. You will not make the Muslim warfare imperative go away with free-market solutions. Diplomacy fails. Their motives, their morals, and their attitudes are the diametric opposite to those of civilized people. Under no circumstances ought we even try to negotiate with them. Fight or die.

        If you doubt me, review the life and career of Ragnar Danneskjöld.
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        • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
          Ragnar is a fictitious character. Your paranoia makes for bad foreign policy and sad self-fulfilling prophecy.
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          • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
            In other words, you, also, refuse to accept the existence of external enemies, or to take at their own word their written declarations of war. Whether said declarations read "Workers of all countries, unite!" or "Fight and slay the infidels wheresoever ye find them!"

            The latter enemy announced their intentions unmistakably by taking down the World Trade Center.
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            • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
              Former enemies can become future friends and trading partners, to wit Germany, Japan, China. Behaving as enemies towards others is not the way to move towards peace. The full story on the WTC has yet to be told. But the million corpses we have caused in Iraq and other countries will not soon be forgotten. A new, non-aggressive policy is the only path to start healing those rifts.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
          Nothing you said responds to what I said, Temlakos. The US military is not going to disappear under 4 years of a libertarian president. Neither will the espionage army of the CIA and NSA. The statists are here in DC, killing and looting everyday. The enemies domestic are a bigger danger. Fight them or die.
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          • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
            Are you sure the United States military is not going to disappear under four years of a libertarian president? Does not the ideology of libertarianism, at least as Gary Johnson in particular (that's whom we're talking about) exemplifies it, call for the dissolution of all standing armies and navies? Where is Gary Johnson's complaint at Obama deliberately destroying whatever offensive capability we have left? Crickets, that's where.

            I did not respond to what you said, because I deemed it incompetent, irrelevant and immaterial. Because I deemed it at variance with observed fact.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
              Yes, I am sure. There are thousands of existing contracts in effect with the military industrial complex that will continue, and the congress will still contain hundreds of corrupt hawks. No, the Libertarian Party platform does not call for dissolution of standing armies or navies; they are part of the constitution, and that is the llimited government power that is the libertarian goal.
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              • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
                Now you know, and I know, that the first law any libertarian Congress would enact, would be one declaring all those contracts null and void. I asked you to give me your philosophical answer to the problem of preparing a society to meet an external foe, and, when necessary, to carry the war to that foe. Instead, you quibble. And I find that beneath you and unbecoming this forum.

                For everyone's information, I call it quibbling to say, "Well, the election of such-a-President does not equate to the election of an agreeable Congress." A candidate for President commonly runs on a ticket. And that ticket includes candidates for the Senate and the House of Representatives. Therefore: when I evaluate the program of a Gary Johnson, I assume he would have in the Congress enough sympathetic votes to carry it out.

                As a matter of Constitutional fact: standing navies might seem part of the Constitution. I quote: "The Congress shall have the power...to provide for and maintain a navy." But: "The Congress shall have the power...to raise and support armies, but no appropriation for this purpose shall be for a term longer than two years." Therefore, a Gary Johnson might well argue that standing armies are ipso facto unconstitutional.
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                • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
                  Temlakos, I have tried to discuss probable future with you. Your conclusions are not valid. For example, the senate only elects 1/3 of the members in an election. If a miracle should happen and libertarians won every single seat being contested, then the senate would still be controlled by statists from the GOP and Dems. Your conclusion that libertarians would control both houses of congress is foolish. The rest of your conclusions are just as likely.
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                  • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
                    "Probable" future? Come now. Do you really intend to campaign on someone's behalf by saying, "Vote for him, but don't worry, for he won't get all his program passed until much later"?

                    I wasn't talking about "probable" future. I was and am discussing intended future. I was discussing what Gary Johnson intends.

                    Next, your argument assumes no Senator would vote to draw down the military to coastal- and border-defense levels only. I would say, based on votes in the present Senate, that one-third of the Senate are committed to drawing down the military, because they just flat-out do not like its mission. One Senate election, or at most two, should suffice to produce a two-thirds majority Senate. Those two thirds could then expel the remaining third. "Each House...may, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member." For any reason or no reason, as I read the Constitution.

                    Now let's try that again. What are your intentions? I did not and do not ask what is your bet. I asked for your intentions. Are you prepared to declare them?
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                    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
                      My intentions are not relevant. What is likely to happen is relevant. Since you have no rational argument, you change the subject and keep offering unsupportable opinion.
                      You should just vote for the hand picked corrupted GOP candidate. They will tell you what to think.
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                      • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
                        Excuse me. Your intentions, and Gary Johnson's intentions, are directly relevant. You ask me to vote for this man. You cannot expect to have my vote on the theory that he will prove impotent to enact his program.

                        And as for rational arguments, I have the most rational argument I could bring: an unassailable one. Because, were it assailable, you would assail it. First you quibble, then you descend to argumentum ad hominem.
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        • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
          About all of the "oppressors" are already seated in the District of Criminals. What do you plan to do about THAT?
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          • Posted by Temlakos 8 years, 10 months ago
            Replace them with those who, first, would repeal all gun-control laws, and second, would repeal the Neutrality Act so that volunteers can organize and, at need, form "unauthorized regiments" to go out and carry the war to the external enemy.
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            • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
              By far the largest enemy is not external, it's right here "at home". In a Voluntary environment, without force and taxes (the same thing, aren't they?) people can direct resources to self-defense as they deem necessary. From this will evolve militia based on common sense, not by sacrificing the right to life of others or of themselves.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
      Since that still puts him far higher up the ladder than the opposing choices......the rest is a non starter Both the government party candidates are left of center. they have formed a coalition of like beliefs.

      What he's asking is form a coalition of opposite beliefs.

      anything else at this point is unacceptable.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 10 months ago
    I was moved and becoming all the more conflicted as well as frustrated..
    I don't see how a vote for Johnson achieves anything more than tossing a rock into a pond.
    Yesterday the RNC called me on the phone obviously looking for a donation, though the conversation did not go that far.
    First came a recitation of numbers about seats the GOP needed to refill while I was distracted for getting steamed over GOP betrayals.
    The caller then asked, "Do you want Hillary in the White House?"
    By then I was so angry I don't remember exactly what I said.
    It went something like "yack, yack (whatever I said at first)--Republicans playing footsie with Democrats. Look, I'm really getting mad. Have a nice day."
    As my right index finger moved to the off button on my Vonage phone, I heard the following from the caller: "But, but Hillary BEEP!"
    In a convoluted way, I'm now reminded of "I'm not an emperor" his highness saying "It's all Bush's fault."
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
      And that's all that we ever get from the GOP on the national level (congress, potus, scotus, bureaucrats ad infinitum.) "Gimme money, gimme power, trust me, I'm not worse than Hillary."
      Today its a rock into a pond. By election day it could be an asteroid into the Dark Center.
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  • Posted by BrettRocketSci 8 years, 10 months ago
    Thanks for getting this video and posting it here. It inspired me enough to share it more. There's still something fundamental missing with the LP marketing...but this looks like a good step in the right direction.
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    • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
      You might try reading some of Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell. Anyway, the Dem-Rep monopoly has managed to run off with all the campaign runds, leaving the LP and any other #parties with little to work with. Shame things are that way. It makes us all victims!
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      • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
        We don't have to sit back and stay victims by doing nothing. Has the status quo really rendered so many of us defeatists? More people need to hear they have another choice. We can make this message go viral.
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        • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
          Having been a Libertarian since it's beginnings, while watching us go nowhere, and seeing Gary garner only a bit more of 1% of the vote against the Dems and the ABO crowd voting 98% to nail down collectivism in America should tell everyone something! Pray for the Great Collapse, which may hold the only solution for this Puzzle. shoving all the Rulers out of business.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
    Sounds good, Mr. Johnson.
    But Frankly, if it wasn't for the Gulch, I would never have heard about you. I am familiar with the tenets of Libertarianism, and I even was discussing it way back in the late sixties, early seventies. But I'd like to hear from you personally. There are parts of Libertarianism that I don't agree with, but lots of parts that I do. Some persons in the Gulch that I respect are boosters of yours so that makes me willing to hear you or your surrogate tell me all about you
    Anyone here care to be Mr. Johnson's avatar, or get him to make a direct statement?
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
      I think we will both have to be patient, Herb. However, if the Gulch invited Johnson to come for AMA, I would not be surprised if he did. Rand Paul set an example to follow. (Did the polls go up after Rand was here?) I would guess sooner would be more likely than later.
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  • Posted by LarryHeart 8 years, 10 months ago
    It is not the leaders that are the main problem; they are only one small part of the problem. The root cause is a corrupted system that can only be repaired through the Constitutional Amendment process. It requires leaders and Congress, the States and the People. Since the problem is systemic no one "Leader" can fix it. A leader can not change the system on their own.
    The people must be educated and demand we drive the CARR (Constitutional Amendment Repeal and Repair) through Congress and the State Legislatures. How to restore the government of the people and not above the people is laid out in detail here: http://www.TheSocietyProject.org
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
    Nice video, but this is a mob-rule system we have (democracy). 51% rule, and there are so many uneducated people out there who just feel entitled to others' money that its far too late for talk like this. It has to crash before people will start thinking again and realize socialism and statism just doesnt work.
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    • Posted by LarryHeart 8 years, 10 months ago
      Our System is a Socialist Monarchy. The royal couple are the Democrat Party and the Republican Party. And more often than not one party controls by majority in all three branches of government making the country a dictatorship with a few fragments of a constitution holding it back from complete Tyranny. The solution is to restore the government of the people not the one above the people as we have become. Find out how at http://www.TheSocietyProject.org
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 10 months ago
    Good stuff, unfortunately won't go anywhere.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
      So you are ready to surrender and be a slave to the statists? If so, then you are right. If good people do not defend liberty by supporting the only non-statist candidate, then it won't go anywhere and we might as well just sign over our production to the Dark Center.
      If you want liberty, and you don't want to have an armed revolution to regain it, then you must stop supporting your enemies: the GOP and the Democrats.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
      I agree. We have a majority mob rule system, and there isnt enough education and thinking out there to make these ideas appealing- at this point in time. Let the current system collapse, and things might be different.
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  • Posted by paris1 8 years, 10 months ago
    Unfortunately, Gary Johnson sounds much better in a 1:43 minute sound bite than he does on a debate platform. We have to be able to do better than this!
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
      Let's get him on the debate platform first. "Better than this"? Like who? Honesty and dignity, not bombast.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
        He would be killed in a debate. Rand Paul wasnt that bad, and he got ignored. Libertarians dont give away enough goodies to get listened to in this environment. Unfortunately, thats the way it is.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
          You want to surrender, go ahead. Vote for fascist dictatorship in the GOP. Unfortunately, thats the way they are. Look on youtube and you will see Johnson in the 2012 "debates." He is better than anything seen in the GOP debates this year.
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          • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
            My point is that at this point in the USA, it makes little sense to talk about liberty and stuff like that- its just not understood. I think the only way is to show how badly socialism actually works- in practical terms. government gets away with running things very badly, and this should be pointed out.
            AS didnt stop statism at all, the movie AS didnt either. How can you expect Gary Johnson to get traction?? Unrealistic
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            • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
              If we who know the difference do not support the candidates that can make a difference if elected then we are consenting to the actions of the statists. You keep on coming back to the phrase "he can't win" which is only valid if you surrender. What can you do today to make things better? very little, but if you don't even do that little bit and vote based on principles then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
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              • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
                arent you arguing that lying down in front of a tank in Tianimen (sp) square in China would be standing up for principles- BUT it means you sacrifice yourself for it.

                If indeed Trump is more electable than the other candidates on the repub side, and who can win over the democrats- doesnt that mean I will keep Hillary or Sanders from doing great damage to me?

                I am not saying Trump, or any of the others for that matter, are consistent Objectivists standing up for individual freedom by a long shot.
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                • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
                  Trump might stop Hillary , but Johnson would stop Trump from doing even worse than Hillary. No, there is no self sacrifice in my statement; it's self interest.
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                  • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
                    No way would Trump do worse than Hillary. He would do less damage than Hillary in economic and foreign affairs terms for sure.

                    Johnson would no doubt be better than any of them, and I wish he could be elected. But if you consider how people are elected in this country at this time, there is just no way that he would actually be elected- even if all the freedom loving citizens voted for him. There just arent enough of us to make that kind of difference at this point in time. Look what happened to Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and the other Libertarian candidates in past elections. They get so few votes compared with the statist entitled peoples that it hardly registers on the electoral college tally.

                    Given that your or my vote is a drop in the bucket, it wont hurt you to vote for Gary Johnson. Either Trump or Sanders I think will win this election no matter what we do.
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    • Posted by DeanStriker 8 years, 10 months ago
      Yes, we have to do better, with principle. There's nobody running for the Dem-Rep chiefdom offering anything worthwhile. The more things "change" the more they remain nothing but more of the same.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years, 10 months ago
    Doing what is right seems so simple to me, but so unattainable. I have concluded that the great majority of humans are fatally flawed.
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    • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
      And the more complex our societies become, the more the flaws, like cracks in tectonic plates, become visible. Still, as long as there is a critical mass of reasonably capable people with brains and integrity, we will prevail. And that may reclaim the flawed ones by example, like iron filings around magnets. Don't give up hope, Mamaemma. You're one of the shining examples. As is Gary Johnson.
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      • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
        One way to accelerate the process of change is to make government programs accountable. These government dudes just get free reign with no one saying it doesnt work. Take a look at Obamacare. I am amazed people dont just rise up about it- I pay twice the amount I used to per month, and have 5x the max out of pocket, and a bigger deductible and co pay. I am sure most people have the same.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 10 months ago
      basic emotional human nature is pretty bad. Not a lot different from lions vs wildebeasts on the africal plain. Our minds allow us to make a better life for all of us, if those minds are used.
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      • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 10 months ago
        Lions and wildebeests are not the same species. They evolved in nature's circle of life. Humans using other humans as prey is an aberration, not true human nature. Evil is the exception, not the rule. Let's lick it, not join it.
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