Armed federal law enforcement is unconstitutional.
That is the source of these problems.
No federal agency should be funded for armed law enforcement. This should be worked out with state government and if absolutely necessary use of the state 'national' guard.
However, in this case, there would be no incentive for the state to support the feds, and that is exactly as it should be.
Waco would have been peacefully settled without Federal armed law enforcement.
Ruby Ridge would never have happened.
The bombing of the Murrah Building in OK City would never have happened either.
The federal prison system would be 1/20th of its size and that would be mostly empty cells.
Instead, a lot of people are in jails for victimless actions, and the federal government has millions of guns and billions of rounds of ammo to use against the people.

Another reminder why going Galt is better than standing and fighting. When I first heard of this standoff I thought to myself that the Feds are going to massacre those guys. The best thing those guys could probably do is invite in a couple news crews to document everything. That's what probably gave them a good result down in the desert in the last standoff.

So the first things I see in the official news reports are staggering and telling.

#1. They didn't initially report a confrontation with Federal law enforcement.
#2. The man who died was the spokesperson for the group. Pretty suspicious. And secondhand witness accounts indicate that he really did have his hands up and that no member of the convoy attempted to resist in any way.
#3. The convoy was on its way to speak to a gathering of interested citizens in another county and they were being escorted by that county's sheriff.
#4. There is no mention of the federal roadblock which was set up specifically to trap them.
#5. There is no mention of the charges on which the remaining members of the convoy were booked, which are ludicrous. It is "interfering with a Federal officer in the line of duty. That this is a manufactured charge is evident.

This whole thing stinks to high heaven of outright federal tyranny. Everyone involved in this should be up on premeditated murder charges, illegal arrest charges, and more - including the Oregon Sheriff who led them into the trap.

Damn. I was hoping this wouldn't happen. Probably never know the whole truth.

This is a perfect illustration of an overbloated government demonstrating its power for the sake of demonstrating its power. The Feds have nothing to gain by their restrictions on the ranchers except for some phony environmental wacko made-up reasons. But, like other cases in the past it lead to someone's death. Reminds me of what we learned in basic freedom lessons: Q: "Why must we obey a stupid law?" A: "Because if you continue to do so, eventually the government can kill you." The more power the state is allowed to have, the more power it will exert. Sometimes, merely to demonstrate its power over its citizens.

Ruby ridge...

Win the debate, hearts and souls of a significant number and then follow Martin Luther King's example. Should enough do that the system would soon become completely mired down by the sheer numbers.

The irony behind the Oregon situation is that I had just read a story last night by Reason Magazine's editor describing the relative restraint shown by law enforcement in Oregon compared to Ferguson, MO and Baltimore, MD.

Wait for the facts to come out. Remember "hands up don`t shoot" ?

A point was made that they were allowed to leave without interference or fear of force but yet the latter is exactly what they did.
This should be a national "Front Page" issue.

Will anyone bring this up in the debates?
I am going to try.

Yet another American Citizan murdered by the Feds. I also did not think this whole incident was going to end well. I also though we would have another Waco on our hands. I don't think its over yet.

I live about a hundred miles away.
Our local hospital (only one with adequate emergency room) was on lockdown all night awaiting casualties during and after the incident. None came. Perhaps the Feds were expecting a higher body count.
Latest word (rumor, but published) is that LeVoy took off in his pickup after the traffic stop and came upon another roadblock down the road, went off the road into a snow bank, and was shot while "reaching for his waistband." If they release the cam results, this may clarify things. The lefties around here are going nuts with fist pumps and hallelujahs. A sordid mess, for sure, whatever the results of the investigation.

I knew it was going to come to this. Obama's government is arrogant,, petulant, and MUST rule over people. Insurgencies cannot be tolerated by him. Look at how Snowden, who should be a hero, was met with Obama's arrogance (Putin put Obama in his place). Best to hide in plain sight and not openly fight Obama while he is in office.

once the govt fascists saw that the citizens did not care to defend the resisters, it moved in to eliminate them...

whether a whistleblower (Snowden)or openly resistent, the govt has shown how you will be dealt with...make no mistake, this is a fascist govt...you will be made to disappear or silenced...

what is sad is that thousands did not show up with their guns to defend the resisters in Oregon...

This breaks my heart. There has to be a way for people to fight back against bullies - especially when the bully is 'the gov'.

The only positive outcome I can now imagine is if someone like Pacific Legal Foundation takes the case and sues the government.

Jan

So very sad. And what is happening to those detained. I wonder if any of us will ever see them again? Do we really still have any rights at all?

If this goes the way of Waco and Ruby Ridge, the militia members will all be found innocent of any wrongdoing. The Feds will walk and nobody will be held accountable for the death.

We should be glad Janet Reno wasn't still around...the body count would have been MUCH higher.

Been following the situation north of us... What, to me, is interesting... is the Hammonds (who turned themselves in, BTW) didn't want either the federales OR the Bundy's there, nor did the neighbors... They (the Hammonds) fought the good fight in court, and (perhaps wrongly) lost, so (as good, upstanding citizens) decided to turn themselves in. The Brethren Bundy out of SOUTHERN NEVADA (nowhere near Oregon), who have problems with paying a land owner for running their cattle on someone elses land (regardless if that land owner is the dotgov, I still think that is called... um... mooching?), used the Hammonds situation (against the Hammond's wishes, BTW) as a way to keep their 15 minutes of adrenaline-fueled, overthrow-the government baiting nonsense going. (I still think they read too many survivalist novellas, and somehow believed that the end of the world scenario espoused in some was real...)

What the Bundy Bunch were apparently shooting for (no pun intended) was, after failing to do so at their home turf in Nevada, they wanted to provoke an armed confrontation with the government (a'la Waco, Texas) in Oregon. They want to be the new-day Koresh's so they will be looked on as "heroes". Meanwhile, the people in Harney County, Oregon, wanted nothing to do with these assorted rabble rousers, and the US government people they attracted, and wanted them all gone. The Bundys - wanted none of THAT - they needed a firefight.

The Bundy clan got their wish - they poked the hornet next, and kept poking at it, until they got the firefight they wanted so desperately (and felt were "cheated out of") at home. Notice how they're calling the dead guy (who committed "suicide by cop") a martyr for the cause? Bah.

I just wish these out of stater southern Nevadans and their Ilk would pack up, go home, and leave the locals in peace to deal with what they have to deal with. Unfortunately - the locals (who DO value their liberty and privacy) will have the dotgov down their throats for a long time to come. Nice Job, guys.

Here's my guess on what happened: the group's spokesman had a habit of shaking his finger in the direction of opposition as he argued; adrenalin-charged FBI shooters saw what they perceived as what might be a pistol (finger with pointed index finger) pointed at them, and cut loose, killing the rancher. Before the leader of the government crowd could stop the shooting, at least one more person was hit. Now they're being purposely vague until a government "Baghdad Bob" can come up with a plausible cover story, and praying no independent video of the incident exists.

I agree with what G. Edward Griffin had to say about the standoff in Oregon
http://tinyurl.com/jotplr4

and

http://tinyurl.com/hf42g9m