Galt's Gulch

Anyone else interested in a Galt-style community in New Zealand?

Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago to Business
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Looking at opening up a beachfront coastal ranch and community in New Zealand and curious to know if anyone here would have any interest?

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  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
    Hi, Justin,
    I'd say, "Sign me up" if the NZ immigration department had a reasonable visa policy for me.
    It has changed for the worse significantly in the past few years for people over age 50. I do not want to retire. NZ needs talented people. In my opinion, the only rational reason for the immigration policies is they don't want anyone who may have health issues in the future unless they bring million$. They want young people who will work cheap for 30 years or more and not complain about low wages. Sounds a lot like the US in that respect, except that NZ has a very big Rio Grande to keep most illegal immigrants out.
    Glad to discuss it further though if there is a legal long term visa that isn't a bad contract for me or the venture.
    (I lived for 2 years on the north island in 2011-2013.)
    What is the location for the ranch?
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    • Posted by khalling 8 years, 10 months ago
      oh, just reading this. I see you are making some of my points here.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
        No worries, kh, its good to have the points made more than once since people often dont read every single post ;^) NZ is getting a good number of Asian immigrants now. Lots of Asian students going to college in NZ, too. Downtown Auckland (near the university) has a lot of Asians on the street all the time. It has improved the cuisine available a lot though;^) Best Masaman curry I have ever had was in a Thai restaurant in Taupo, NZ.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
    Take a hard look at New Zealand.

    I have been to both islands and most of Australia and a nearby mentioned destination of Fiji. Particularly look at the tax structure. Compared to the USA as as total including all embedded taxes there is not much difference. Then look at return for taxes paid. Both are socialist in terms of areas like medicine. But both are also capitalist countries with social leanings and not Socialist countries. Very modern etc. Common sort of language. Here's the rub. Moving money from the US means 'after tax dollars' then check how that money entering NZ or Oz will be taxes both in sales tax area and income tax area.

    My grandparents coming from England suffered paying an income tax on earning, again to Britain on drawing retirement and again to the USA on importing the funds. A Californian moving to Oregon will see the same result. Upon earning, retirement to California regardless of where you reside, and then to Oregon except Oregon deducts from theirs the amount paid elsewhere. This will provide a clear picture of funds available. Investment money can sit at least in Australia untaxes unti it is drawn out then if still a US Citizen IRS wants it's full bite and Oz will take 30%.That's the rudiments on the financial part. Wants some deeper study.

    As for living there, either one, BIG TIME thumbs up. with one exception to near our southern border. Everything is set up in the US to keep you chained;. Bank issues, tax issues the lot. After filing it's your job to go search the results on the internet to find out if it was enough and if not and you don't the 60 day rule with fines applies. I have yet to receive a letterll they claim was sent out from the IRS. That's their little gotcha.

    Changing banks is another chore. Stay FAR FAR away from Bank America. I do ok with Wells Fargo and they have rearranged my number of withdrawal to suit my program. For retired military or government employees look at Navy Federal CU and especially Anderson Federal Credit Union in Maryland. they cater to travelers and people living outside the country. Top Marks go to Anderson FCU.

    So far I've made no draws on the previously tax paid Oz funds. They are in a non interest earning account as well. I get a letter to add to taxes annually stating that. It is my escape fund to be honest and I call it that. There are a few things that can be done with the setup.

    Advantages to south of the border are proximity to family and ability to stomp out government sponsored problems and favorable exchange rate fast access to stuff you just can't do without. that sort of thing. Learn the language. It's not difficult. If it comes to it I'm a dual citizen with the British Empire and will change as there are no allegiance problems. My country doesn't exist anymore. We'll see what happens after the elections to change or not change that statement.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
      Michael, your rambling style of writing makes it unclear to me what you're trying to say.

      There are no double income taxes on earnings in NZ. If you pay US income tax you don't pay NZ income tax, and there is no tax on moving funds to or from NZ. (Banks charge a fee on changing currencies which is another reason to know that banks always get paid for doing nothing but restricting free markets.) NZ income taxes are lower than the US income taxes over all. They do have GST taxes instead of sales taxes) but they are not in effect on businesses (the tax is refunded for anything purchased for business use.) Real estate taxes are lower in NZ than in the US. The cost of living is about the same as the US, but wages are generally lower. If you have US dollars they go farther in NZ than in US big cities in general, but it depends on your spending habits. It's a first world country with all the conveniences that Americans are accustomed to having. You can drink the water from the tap without any immediate health problem unlike anyplace south of the Rio Grande close to the US. The rule of law exists and there are no drug gangs ruling the government (although the politicians are no better than the US;^). Kiwis do have an unusual accent, but its still English, and you don't have to learn Spanish or put up with a total culture shock. Americans are treated with respect, and not just thought of as "gringos" who have to live in ex-pat gated communities for safety. Money held in banks in NZ are arguably safer than in banks in North and Central America. NZ banks are paying about 3 to 4% on savings accounts (easily transferable to pay bills.) NZ compared to Mexico/Central America is like comparing roasted leg of lamb to enchiladas. It depends on what you like personally. For the present, I'd take the lamb.
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      • Posted by khalling 8 years, 10 months ago
        hold on a minute. First of all-the buy-in to NZ if not getting a job there (getting a job there is not easy, even if one is lined up) is a huge hurdle. I forget the amount of savings you must have as a requirement, but I think it is 200K or more. The de facto freedom in NZ is less than "south of the border." Those are obstacles people should keep in mind. (db's best friend relocated to NZ to work as a doc in a hospital-the job lined up, still took MONTHS to gain entry on a working Visa). just things people need to keep in mind if they choose lamb. :)
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        • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
          Yes, I mentioned the immigration problem in another post here. You have to do your homework before making any choices. I haven't looked at the NZ immigration rules in over a year, and as I mentioned it is more difficult now than it was just 5 years ago if you are over 50. Foreign small business owners were more welcomed in the past than now. When I went there in 2011 you could form a NZ corp over the internet even as a foreigner. Now every corp must have an NZ resident as a director. (I closed my corp as a result. The annual cost for a corp in NZ is very reasonable.) I think younger immigrants are still welcomed with relatively easy work visas if they have skills needed in NZ, but there is a bureaucratic process that must be followed, just as is the case in the US and every first world country (and likely any country that has any ability and will to police immigrants.).
          Relatively speaking, $200k NZD is a trivial buy in investment for a first world country. In comparison, Australia wants $2 million AUD investment. Third world countries have much lower requirements to go with their often inferior infrastructure, unaccessible job market, foreign language barrier, and corrupt rule of law. You get what you pay for. Yes, NZ requirements may be difficult for many people. (So was Atlantis).
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          • Posted by khalling 8 years, 10 months ago
            I do not know the buy in-I remember looking at it, roughly 10 years ago when we were 40.
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            • Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago
              It's pretty reasonable and can include the purchase of real estate. Also, once you own land, it's essentially a guarantee of entry. Full on residency and access to public services has a slightly higher but still modest threshold of $200k (New Zealand) or $135k +/- US Dollar and again, real estate purchase/investment can count towards that.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
                Real estate equity amount or purchase price amount? (If you recall;^)
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                • Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago
                  That's a good question and I honestly dont't know, but I think the rule is that you have 5 years to make that level of investment (equity) and as long as you're under contract, that would qualify.
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                  • Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 10 months ago
                    I guess my point was that if you have contracted and are liable for debt on the purchase, there is some justification that the entire purchase price of the property should be included even if you only put up 20% of the purchase price. However, in my experience, feedback from NZ immigration agents is obscure at best. When I was applying, I wanted to give just enough data to meet the requirements and maintain some financial privacy, but immigration does not tell you what they actually want in enough detail to do that. They are fishing for as much data you will volunteer. Its a government agency.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 10 months ago
      I believe your third paragraph is mistaken. US federal law doesn't allow any state except the state of residence to tax retirement income, so a retired Californian in Oregon would not pay California tax.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 10 months ago
    Twenty years ago, most likely, yes. Today, no. Too old, too infirm. But if you have all your ducks in a row, financially, and legally, I'm sure you'll rev up interest.
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  • Posted by GFasolt 8 years, 10 months ago
    If personal ownership of firearms is restricted or requires registration, freedom is not possible in the long term. What is the case in NZ?
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    • Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago
      NZ ranks in the top 5 countries of firearms per capita (legal) and firearms ownership is widespread. In actuality, unlike the United States, firearms with silencers/suppressors and automatic weapons are relatively easy to obtain after a simple background check, and importing your collection is a fairly straight-forward affair also. This was actually a deciding point for me as well personally.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
      private ownership yes, with certain restrictions as to type of weapon and use. Nothing noteworthy there BUT that's for New Zealanders. Foreign nationals entering with a firearm or desiring to acquire one have a citizen style vetting procedure to pass. Hunting, target shooting even self protection are not automatically excluded however if you are going through the hoops for residency it adds to the effort required.

      Their County Their Laws. As in the USA the constitution doesn't apply. This is an old argument in cruising boaters circles. There are three main points besides the one just mentioned - you have no rights in someone else's country unless they grant them. Zero.

      One you enter (on a boat) or fly in without prior permission such as obtaining a guide and hunting license and do one of three things. Declare the weapon on the Customs form. The country will either confiscate it and secure until you depart, allow you to keep it on board with full responsibility or any use or Confiscate it. Their choice all known in advance

      Second choice. You do not declare it and it is found. Arrest, confiscation, fines no jail time if you are lucky, possible confiscation of your boat, kicked out of the country with your passport in possession of the plane crew. Their laws their courts, their attorney's fees, their version of rights as applied to foreigners.

      Third choice you do not declare and use the weapon. Figure on confiscation - it's evidence. Confiscation of boat, fines and jail time. Not much help from State Department for those cases. You knowingly broke their laws. If you killed someone your screwed. But you did it to yourself.

      For boaters the rules are simple stay out of pirate areas and war zones. The chances of needing a weapon are close to nil. A bang stick at the most in 12 gauge should serve the purpose or a really good quality 12 gauge or .410 gauge flare pistol...

      If you feel the need to be armed. WHY are you going there? That's a California attitude. "I" want to go through the Suez in the middle of a full blown war through major pirate areas all of whom outgun me. Take another route or don't go. Option three play stupid and don't call for help you did it to yourself.

      The question should have been....what are the crime rates in New Zealand.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 8 years, 10 months ago
    NZ would be location #2 for me. #1 is Chile. I love Chile. Simon Black (Sovereign Man) made the same decision, but he is very quiet in the sense he wants no visitors and is not an welcoming type of person to the area in which he lives, which means establishing a community is more difficult.
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    • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 10 months ago
      I have been researching Chile. It certainly has promise. While it ran, I also regularly listened to the podcast "Red Hot Chile". I once sent the host an email with a question and he read it. As I sat working in my office alone one Saturday morning I listened to his response on the podcast. Pretty neat.
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    • Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago
      Really appreciate Simon and his work. I've been part of his network for about 5 years. My concerns about Chile have more to do with regional security/politics and language barriers for friends/family, but it is still in my top 5.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
    If I remember someone had access to an entire island in Fiji. Chile was mentioned and Panama as well along with Guatemala. For value, convenience, SAFETY, and other reasons I chose Mexico including the safety and budget considerations features but you have to pick the area just like the USA. I travel to some of the others with the added plus of not having to fly in the US system. I tend to avoid target countries US, France, etc. Muslim population is very low very spread out and mostly Sunni. Not everyone will use my particular standards but i do like the expat life.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 10 months ago
    I'm 72. Would NZ even allow me to immigrate? We were in NZ then Australia last year (2015) and found that Australia would demand $500,000 up front to allow us to move there. We had already left NZ so I did not get a chance to ask there.
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    • Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago
      Yes, but there are some considerable hoops to jump through financially if you're looking to become a resident. You could expat there as a non-resident alien by purchasing real estate, but you would have to maintain yourself as a non-resident alien.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 10 months ago
    New Zealand has socialized medicine.
    New Zealand does not explicitly protect freedom of speech for the individual. Freedom of the media is limited by its requirement to 'support law and order'.
    New Zealand recognizes the right to social security and has three types thereof (which seem to be roughly equivalent to medicare, welfare, and unemployment).
    The Bill of Rights of New Zealand specifically states that personal rights shall 'bow' if they conflict with other Acts.

    I do not consider it a good location for a Gulch. Admittedly, the US now has socialized medicine. I hope that this will be rescinded soon. Sigh. It is a beautiful country.

    Jan
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    • Posted by RebelCelt 8 years, 10 months ago
      Socialized medicine, as a base yes, (there are direct pay options outside the socialized system) but with accountability measures that prevent abuse. An example is that those on public assistance are required to drug-test,and the "PC" culture of the US is almost non-existent outside Auckland, and by no means as deep even in Auckland. Public broadcasters and politicians routinely and frequently say things that would result in PC firings/dismissals in the States.

      And most interestingly, in a country with 1 firearm per 3 people, the police are literally not allowed to carry firearms on their person. The guns are in the hands of the citizenry, not a police/military state.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 10 months ago
    Is that even possible...NZ is liberal progressive also.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 10 months ago
      The terms have completely different meanings in different countries. Don't use our ever changing definitions for anyone else anywhere else. They don't mean much here for more than a few minutes as you will know. One mis defined common is calling certain countries socialist when they are not. Every one is capitalist with some social program aspirations. Is it time for another lesson in realpolitik again?
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