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US Hiring Slowed in September as Global Economy Weakened

Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 2 months ago to Economics
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Seven years of high speed Obama Keynesian economics and this is where we are. Record numbers not in the work force. A global slow down. The potential for another '08 style collapse. I wonder what Socialist solution is in store for us next.
SOURCE URL: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ECONOMY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-10-02-08-33-31


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  • Posted by bsmith51 9 years, 2 months ago
    Capitalism builds capital wealth; socialism punishes, diminishes and redistributes wealth.
    Simple.
    Too bad so many find it such a difficult lesson.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 2 months ago
    One of the things that the article did not mention is that now (this year) the small businesses (<50 employees) are no longer 'grandfathered' or 'grandmothered' protection from Obamacare. This certainly gives one pause in hiring new employees.

    Jan
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
      And Forbes magazine has already interviewed several big business employers who also cited Obamacare as the primary reason they weren't hiring either - despite good cash flows.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 2 months ago
    To me, a "jobless recovery" is not a recovery at all,
    and is no better than a mockery. I could say more,
    except that I don't type obscenity over the Internet,
    (or anywhere else).
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
      A jobless recovery can be the result of big efficiency improvements and automation (robots). Nothing wrong with that
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      • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
        Except that then you would see an uptick in skilled labor - the people building, maintaining, and creating all the automatons. You also see an uptick in IT to handle the extra data.

        A jobless recovery truly is a non sequitur.
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        • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
          What I am finding is that the advances in robots and robot parts are coming FROM china, Enables building robotic solutions much easier with less technical labor. In addition, German engineers are advancing robotic science a lot too. I dont see a lot of this with American skilled labor (if there is any left)
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          • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
            Then what you are really arguing is not a jobless recovery, but a recovery in which the jobs are being gained by people in a foreign workforce.

            The problem with this kind of "recovery" is that no nation can continue to grow its economy when its people are unemployed. India is a classic example, as is China. They have massive amounts of unemployment yet tout all kinds of "growth" that is dependent on other nations. It isn't self-sustaining.
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            • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
              I agree and it doesnt speak well for the USA going forward. I wouldnt even call it a recovery, as jobs can be lost with no improvement in sales $$ or quantity of items produced. Our little company has had pretty consistent sales, but less employment and materials purchases originating in the USA. If we didnt take those actions, we would probably be BK by now.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 2 months ago
    Sounds like a new 'New Deal' is comin...this time funded with funny money. We'll all be building housing for all the illegal aliens, Butchers from the middle east, shira law centers and mosks-(I don't care if it's spelled wrong).
    We make less, taxed more, everything costs more and we dare not make a move for fear of the next satanic regulation against humanity.

    Sorry...I was venting!
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      and a good job at that. This keynesian left wing socialist crap. Face it their boss has failed. They have no legitimacy and no one believes them any more. I guess they'll have to send us to those education camps but the dialectics aren't working.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
    Part of a full article this may offer some clues. Jeff Crouere at http://townhall.com The last line is part of the answer but doesn't explain U6. There is an AP article in the same location detailing the same conclusion 579,000 down 146,000 up = 433 net loss HOWEVER how much of that was the fall harvest and students returning to school bump....



    Jeff sez:

    "For the past few years, the Obama lovers in the media have been boasting about the supposedly great economy Americans are enjoying. According to this fictitious narrative, Obama’s strong leadership saved the economy and led to our “recovery,” but, in reality, we face today a RINO or “Recovery in Name Only” economy.

    The real economy was exposed in the September labor report. The country created only 142,000 new jobs, much less than expectations. This year, we are adding fewer than 200,000 new jobs each month, well below last year’s average of 260,000 new jobs per month.

    The so-called experts blame it on the global economic slowdown, yet, the economy of the United States has been troubled for years. We never recovered from the Great Recession of 2008 and have really been suffering from a prolonged recession.

    The stock market only “recovered” because of a massive influx of money from the Federal Reserve. This policy of “Quantitative Easing” was the main reason the market did not totally collapse. Now, interest rates are being kept artificially low because the Federal Reserve is not confident the weak economy can sustain an increase.

    They have every reason to be concerned. Weekly earnings fell approximately three dollars to $865.61 and hourly wages decreased one penny last month and have only increased 2.2% this year. Workers are earning less and working less hours as the average work week declined to only 34.5 hours. The old adage of a 40 hour work week is from a bygone era of economic prosperity that does not reflect today’s economic reality.

    Some hopelessly positive analysts will cheer that the unemployment rate remained steady at only 5.1%. However, this rate is totally meaningless in an economy with only 148.8 million Americans working and an astounding 94.6 million people outside of the workforce.

    Americans outside of the labor force include all people 16 years of age and older who are not employed and have not made any efforts to look for a job. Millions of these individuals are so discouraged about the labor market that they have stopped looking for employment. Many are completely dependent on government assistance. In America today, 50 million Americans are living in poverty, while 46 million people are receiving food stamps, a figure that has been exceeded for 38 straight months. A mere 15 years ago, only 17 million Americans received food stamp benefits.

    In the last month, 579,000 Americans left the workforce, a number more than four times higher than the number of new jobs in September. Thus, the labor force participation rate fell to 62.2 percent, the lowest since 1977.

    View Full Article http://townhalldaily.com the rest is worth the read. for The Rest Of The Story remember those words?
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      Quick comment on the 34.5 average hour work week. Many employee benefits are based on full time or 40 hours. 30 hours is not full time. nor are temporary jobs. By cutting employees to they cut a large amount of expenses. 34.5 average means half the work force is not legally permanent....
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
    I saw a story yesterday saying that even Dunkin Donuts is closing 100 stores! The next Socialist solution will be a unification act of some sort. I don't think we're quite desperate enough yet for the dreaded 10-289!
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
      I say that businesses are looking to dump employees as fast as they can. They will replace employees by efficiency improvements and automation. In our small company, I am definitely into employee reduction. Just too much hassle having employees, from the paperwork of payroll regulations to the unemployment payments that can be required even after the employee quits for another job from which they get fired or quit later. Its unfair.
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      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
        Nothing in life is "fair." Lose the word from your vocabulary. JG or AR would never use the term like that.

        But you DID list a LOT of Good Reasons why you and other employers have reasons to contract your workforce! What y'all need to look at is Where Did Those Driving Forces Start, and just maybe, What can You or Anyone Else Do To Reverse Those Trends.

        Look for Root Cause or kwitcherbitchen!
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        • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
          Looks to me like the government is pandering to the entitlement bent they have encouraged over the years in employees. That accounts for the increase in regulations and requirements.

          How does a politician like Rand Paul compete with the giveaway promises the socialist candidates make (that will be paid for by the "other" people)

          All I can do is try to eliminate as much need for humans through automation and efficiency improvement.
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          • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
            Yes, that's probably a viable solution to that one problem, but imnsho, it's not getting to Root Cause...

            Root Cause of what? People liking free stuff? I think THAT inclination goes back a few hundred thousand years.... :)

            And when you wring all the benefits out of efficiency improvements, automation is one next logical step.

            Unions are still fighting That reality and very stubbornly resisting the results of their own prior success in.... wait for it.... getting higher wages!

            I love the irony in that.
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            • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
              The higher the wage, the better automation looks, and the fewer the number of workers. It's cool how stupid they appear to be
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              • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
                Hell, earlier this year I envisioned the McDonalds of the Future, when wage demands would even be higher...

                A driverless truck pulls up to the back of the Golden Arches and "mates" its delivery doors to the back of the building...

                All necessary foodstuffs and other items are transferred into the building hands-free and hermetically sealed against contamination.

                Customers, whether drive-through or sit-down, order by touchscreen and automated equipment prepares and delivers all orders to the customer in a neat little bundle.

                Backup power keeps the 'store' running, even in power outages. Emergency supply deliveries in case of unusual out-of-stocks are roof-delivered by Amazon Prime helicopter-drones with similar mating connections.

                Local maintenance, smiles for customers, and anything else are provided by the One Minimum-Wage attendee in the store unless he/she is on a nap or potty break.

                And the unions did it to themselves without thinking....
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                  That would be a boon to job creation absence the Luddites. Since McDonald has not been a fast food restaurant for some time that part would scarcely matter except pull over to the curb we will bring your order out. the unions representing a strong minority are scarcely considered any more except in their role of maintaining the left wing socialist fascist government in their role as third leg of the socialist triumverate along with statists and corporatists. Now nearing 85 years in that role. Absent government employee unions they are a fraction. and, at least in my direct experience, were of little use to their members.
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                • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                  Great analysis! I hope I live to c it
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                  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
                    Recall my First Law... "The Whole World Is A Tradeoff..."

                    There would be upsides and downsides to such an eventuality. For example, working at McDonald's will cease to be an 'entry-level position' for many workers because the numeric demand for such workers will evaporate. There will be dislocations and disruptions, as with any such change.

                    Stick around.. the show should be "interesting," to say the least.
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                    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                      Isn't it true though that absent inflation the cost of living would go down and it would take less working hours to survive. Automation wouldn't just eliminate the need for human work totally
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                      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                        Absent inflation which isn't part of the plan is not a reliable fix. along with devaluation and debt repudiation it's more like a corner stone of fiscal policy.
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                        • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                          One of the bad side effects (among many) of fiscal manipulations is that it takes away our ability to use money effectively. I'm always chasing moving targets The so called CPI is useless, and it's causing me to buy fewer big ticket items, become a coupon baby, go out to restaurants less, and otherwise keep my total expenses numerically the same year over year and therefore my standard of living lower each year. If everyone did this, our economy would slowly shrink
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                      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
                        I have no idea.. :)
                        But ceteris paribus (sp?) ... the attempt to keep EVERYTHING ELSE the same while varying ONE variable so as to observe its effect... is way hard to do... especially in economics and Economies! :)

                        I'd guess, though, that if automation and/or improved efficiency could be looked at Alone, their effects probably would be to lower 'costs', hence 'cost of living.'

                        but IANAE (I Am Not An Economist) ... Thank whoever or whatever... :)
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    • Posted by jnnrd54 9 years, 2 months ago
      And Whole Food is laying off 1,500 employees
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        high prices lose customers faster while Dollar Stores are adding fresh foods. A new book for Kindle explains that the dollar stores are very often more green than the boutique stores and how to shop for exactly what Whole Foods is shutting off.

        There are now five ways to adjust to market conditions in business.

        1. Quality
        2. Service
        3. Prices

        4. Layoffs and reduced hours
        5. Reduce taxes

        and finally number Six the Six hundred pound guerrilla chuckle chuckle

        6. Close.
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      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
        Gee, and that's also known as "competition"... as some of the other comments accurately note.

        Why didn't WF see the handwriting or the wall it was on five years ago?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      Obama likes to make bold moves. Anything is possible.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
        With Obeyme, both the pen and the phone are mightier than the sword!
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
          I'm reminded of a cartoon from Playboy perhaps two. One showed a dude with a sword and a dead bleeding body. He was writing using the sword as a pen. "The Sword is mightier than the...."

          The other soon after the six day war showed a group of Arab types marching across the sand hands up. All had the stereotypical semitic features. One turned to the other and said "That's funny he didn't look Jewish."

          Sometimes a single picture is worth a thousand words and phone calls. they tend to stick in your mind forever.
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    • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
      There was a recession. There was a 'sort-of recovery' and some firms overexpanded. Shit happens.

      Dunkin' might have been caught in the 'health-food squeeze' as the media and health nuts took over the airwaves, too, y'know...

      Any 'simple explanation' is inevitably wrong.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        And the more convoluted and complex the harder to prove either way.. convenient. There was and is inflation. There was and is devaluation. There was and is debt repudiation. CPI and COLA included none of that. The national debt did double. the economy has failed. The emperor has no clothes.

        Nothing complex about the looters raped the economy and are in the CYA phase. The more complex the less I believe them.

        The only question is did you remember to check the vaseline for sand. May be the only medicine Obamacare provided.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
    In 2008, almost everyone in the Gulch could have predicted the employment record of 2015. My family is mostly very liberal. In other ways, they are super smart, but when it comes to politics, the mental disorder of liberalism takes over and and turns them into idiots. So, what do they say now? You'd be surprised as to how downright laughable their excuses are. The closest any of them has come to the reality that is Obama was when my cousin from Massachusetts' wife said, "His performance has been disappointing." I wanted to scream at her, "Disappointing? Is that all you can say? You have the political acuity of a fruit fly!!!"
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
    In my company, we are trying as hard as we can to automate, robot-ize, and reduce employees to anticipate the $15/hr minimum wages, extra costs due to health care, and extensive new employee regulations. Frankly we hire only illegals to avoid the issues that are here already. When they make that impossible, we want to only need a small number of american legal employees.
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 2 months ago
    I find the government numbers interesting. The number of unemployed increases and the number of employed increases. I believe the number of unemployed does increase each day let alone each month, but the employed well that is another bit of government b/s. Just like the unemployment rate staying at 5 percent, when you hear that you should be wearing waders and carrying a shovel. The government is employing every trick so to speak in the book to ignite the population to believe things are getting better, however, the population the greater part of it to include ghetto people know that things are not getting better. You just can't fake reality!!!!!!!!!
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
      Low level jobs went to China (our little company sent some of those ourselves) because they work for less money than entitled Americans who refuse to accept that competition reduced their value.

      But, middle and upper management jobs ALSO went to China too- not directly, but because the low level jobs here required middle and upper management people who are now no longer needed here. That helps account for the reduction in management jobs here in the USA.
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
    How do I say this in nice, gentle, supportive, non-judgmental way?...

    ON AVERAGE, we're around 5% unemployment... which IS the long-term AVERAGE unemployment for decades and decades.

    As we APPROACH the "reversion to the mean," why do so many of you AND the mainscream media panic when the RATE of CHANGE of that percentage trails off?! As anything 'reverts to the mean,' it doesn't usually shoot through on a linear trajectory. If it does, it will REVERSE to 'revert to the mean' AGAIN and everyone will freak because 'unemployment is Increasing.'

    Does Nobody Understand math, averages, economics?!

    The root causes of the '"08 collapse" are quite irrelevant to today's economic situation. Although there is talk of another 'bubble' starting, which is what popped us into the last major recession.

    PLEASE read some balanced economics... Subscribe to MarketMinder.com and read Ken Fisher's books on investing!

    THEN come back here and tell me they're wrong, and why.

    YES, Obama is a Keynesian. And the only two worse than him are Hillary and Bernie! They ALL believe that Government Control Is The Way To Fix All Problems.

    But believing what the AP or Breitbart or Huffpost or the WaPo tell you about 'economics' will lead you 'astray' just as well.

    Whatever...
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
      "why do so many of you AND the mainscream media panic when the RATE of CHANGE of that percentage trails off?!"
      I know. My theory is journalists need something write about. I used to do paid writing and will probably do it again. I looked for stories that I thought would be coming up, like the anniversary of some famous event, and then I tried to write interesting stories. I never went into the "OMG this and that happened," but I know that's one way to get attention.

      "YES, Obama is a Keynesian."
      I'm a Keynesian too, but not by the definition that some people use as an excuse to spend. We've been in a tepid expansion for years, and my Keynesian model says it's passed time to stop the borrowing and even start retiring debt.
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      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
        I agree, but most mainscreamers rag about the size of the Debt, ignoring the important measure: The cost of Carrying the Debt as a fraction of GDP.

        I liken it to the size of my home mortgage versus my gross pay or annual burn rate.

        When I bought my (high-priced) house in Silicon Valley, the carrying costs (minimum monthly mortgage payments) created a negative cash flow until my wife got a job. The mortgage principal was about three times my gross salary.

        After years of inflation (and depreciation of the dollars I was using to pay the carrying costs) AND a few raises, the monthly payments got so manageable I started to prepay the balance. With a few stock options sold, I paid off the mortgage about ten or more years before it was due to complete.

        Oh, and the interest rate at the start was 9.75%... "the last mortgage under 10% in Silicon Valley in late 1978," according to my banker. As rates dropped, I re-fi'd at least once or twice.

        Avoid Ken Fisher's books and other information feeds. He's definitely NOT a Keynesian. He would probably agree that Obama IS one, though, and then point out that the "recovery" under Obama has been one of the weakest and slowest in US history.

        But hey, he's not a Keynesian, so WTF does HE know???? :)
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
      Here's a couple of better numbers to look at:
      Total population
      Population employed (AKA Labor participation rate - currently at its lowest in 40+ years)
      Average family income (down >$5000 under Obama)
      U13 unemployment rate (a more realistic look)
      # of people on government welfare, especially food stamps and WIC

      The problem with looking at the U6 unemployment number is that it is based on the number of people actively looking for work and does not include those taking handouts.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        There supposed to be dropped out already. The start point is people in the work force. They are not in the work force. How many times are they counted? It can't be the ten percent of the work force who will never have work or another way ten percent of the work force will always be out of work so we won't count them. Or are they saying the amount on welfare is never going to rise above ten percent? In any case there are ten percent taken off the top so where do the welfarists fit in? And how many times?

        You see one of the reasons is government is always redefining to suit there needs and without regard to intelligible accuracy. I digress. Why would I not treat what you just wrote as yet another proof of government cooking the books or an intentional act of pulling the wool over our eyes then adding a large bucket of cement.?





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      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
        And you don't look at MarketMinder, still, right?

        Back when I was a kid, there was virtually no production line automation and as a postwar baby, I grew up in an environment where pretty much the only time people were out of work was when a union called a strike.

        Jobs were basic, and 'careers' for 'educated people' included medicine, science, nursing and the like. The hierarchy of "management" was thin and exclusive.

        Then, everyone got excited about women's rights and their participation in the labor force. No longer was the 'dream' of women to raise a family... it expanded to include going to high school, college, getting a well-paying job so that, as the divorce rate simultaneously was increasing, they would know they could support themselves and kids, if necessary, into the future.

        So tons of women got degrees, the Glass Ceiling was discovered and attacked, and now Fortune Magazine can run a special issue of the World's Most Powerful Women.. CEOs and CFOs and such, of MAJOR world-wide companies.

        So teachers and librarians' jobs go cheap and begging, as more women get Master's and Ph.D's and become majority of engineering and technical school classes and move up the corporate ladder, displacing the Old Boys on the charts.

        Meanwhile, B-Schools teach their grads that, once they enter the workplace, their destiny is to be Leaders Of The World, and if it means climbing over and screwing others to get there, so be it.... And That is a quote/paraphrase from a B-School friend of mine just before she dropped that class at STANFORD UNIVERSITY ... yeah, the on in Palo Alto, CA... Silicon Valley.

        So, Blarman, this is a VERY complex issue, with LOTS of inputs and outputs.

        To bitch about 'average family income' being up or down is bullshit unless you bring to the party some of the many driving forces, or "Root Causes" as I refer to them... of the Problem.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Okebm... is one video you might benefit from watching, along with most of the others Bill Whittle has up on YouTube.

        But you won't.

        Cheers!
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 2 months ago
          I subscribe to Bill Whittle. Also Andrew Klaven.

          And pardon me, but average income per family IS a big deal if one has gone to the grocery store over the past 5 years and seen the prices for food - conveniently left out of the inflation indexing - rise by nearly 40%. I work in the food service industry, and rising prices are BANE to the whole industry because they already operate completely on high volume, low margin. When prices go up and volume drops, margins disappear entirely. Food stamps are a covert attempt at the government trying to take over the food service industry just like they have done with energy, finance, and now healthcare.

          And why are incomes dropping? Obamacare's provisions have significantly contributed to that, as have the billions of dollars of regulatory burden added on since Obama was put in office because they impose new costs on businesses that don't provide value which can be sold to customers. Forbes has already reported on this several times. And basic supply and demand tells us that as things get more expensive, people buy less because they run out of means. It doesn't take a PhD in Economics to understand this (and BTW I have an MBA, so I'm not exactly a slouch when it comes to the matter).
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          • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
            Blar, PLEASE don't make ANY assumptions or implications that I might be supporting any of the crap the O-ministration dishes out to any and all of us 'Murkins.

            I know roughly what margins are in the food retail business, but not in "food services."

            If some product becomes so expensive that customers (individuals or restaurants?) stop buying it, I would assume that the product would leave the shelves or menus and stay off or be replaced by some less-expensive item.

            Food stamps and other government "solutions" try to drive behavior from a top-down command system, which I tend to observe as being less efficient than the Free Market would provide. Yes, I'm a Friedman-ite, from that pov.

            I'd be glad to dish on Forbes, Anti-BusinessWeek, Fortune and other similar publications, but it's late and I've got a lot of Intray to weed through.

            Cheers!
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      your too far left for me. I've never seen five percent unemployment or heard of it.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        world war II when the whole country was mobilized came the closest and after that the figures discount five percent off the top of full employment of the labor force and since mid 90's discount 10 percent and neither one accounted for those who fell off the count when the unemployment insurance ran out. So spin spin spin.
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        • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
          http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS140...

          Never around 5%? Ever? ... looking for some more data from previous times...

          Ok, average looks WAY above 5.... maybe 6-6.5?

          Same link...
          Input 1938 or earliest possible date, leaving 2015 as most recent...
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
            Exactly. We can verify these numbers with sales at bellwether companies. Even if we take issue in how they compute the numbers, we can still use them if they're using the same methodology one year as the next.

            Contrary to wht Michael says, facts are too far left or too far right. Facts are facts. People who can tell you how $hitty life is are easy to find. Show me people like Ken Fisher with a track record of analyzing the economy and helping people invest in things that work and end up making successful and profitable products.
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            • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
              That's why I recommend Ken and his writings, and MarketMinder's analysis of 'news' from financial 'mavens.'

              Prior to the last round of China-based financial knee-jerks, The IRA dollars my wife and I handed over to Ken's company to manage have allowed us to give up literally $700k in cash withdrawals and management fees over 11.3 years with them, and our net balance is down about 1% over that entire period.

              So much for 'being screwed by Wall Street." Choose your money manager well and let them do their job. I was recommended to Fisher's company by a dear friend who kept me in good stock market tips for many years, then abruptly stopped making recommendations. Why?

              He decided to enjoy life instead and said he was putting way too much time and energy into managing his investments. He handed all his retirement money to Fisher Investments and never looked back. We went 'up the mountain' to Ken's place and interviewed them and decided to entrust them, too.

              Now, I toss all email or hardcopy offers from anyone offering to manage my money... retirement or otherwise.

              And anyone offering a subscription to their Newsletter gets bit-bucketed, too. I've concluded that all those market wizards are making most of their money from such subscriptions and not from their investments. Or at least most from subscriptions. If their investment ideas were THAT good, 1) they'd be living happily on them and 2) the last thing they should want to do is share those ideas with anyone...

              Their customers automatically become their competitors for the same rainbow-chasing.

              In a free market, that's one of the dumbest things anyone can do. QED.

              Live long and Prosper, CG.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
              If it's so great how come they raised the debt limit again? I think it's great - I opted out of a failed system to the extent possible and turned my situation around. As for the rest let them eat credit cards for Christmas Dinner.
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              • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
                Michael, you also need to look at how many times the Debt Limit has been raised when the Debt approached the old limit.

                First answer: MANY times.
                Next answer: EVERY TIME.

                When the Debt Limit is ALWAYS RAISED when the Debt approaches the Limit, c'mon... the "Limit" becomes meaningless!!!!!!

                c.f., http://www.plusaf.com/pix/homepagepix...

                Get it?
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                  Tell me something I don't know. For the benefit of others there is NO debt limit. It's a charade to keep the the foreign money people interested. Did you know during the two Gulf War's Saddam kept some of his offshore accounts in US T Bills and so does Iran. Every wonder why? No matter how bad the inflation, devaluation and repudiation they just send out a check ....the loss is tolerable compared to a banks paltry $250,000.

                  The same thing paid for foreign aid food shipments when the ethanol scam went through. But who got that money. BIG agri business the farm workers of Iowa got zilch.

                  And so it goes. piddle piddle piddle

                  I've been gone two days so I'm catching up!
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                  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
                    I'm with you on it, Michael... there is no logical "why" behind any decision to raise the debt limit.

                    Yes, it IS a charade, played for political and media benefit and Low Information Voters get sucked in by it every time...

                    And THAT is also a difficult Problem To Solve!
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            6 or 6.65 unemployment is way above 5% per unemployment it was below 5%' once counting all the work force inWWII for a very short time. Thanks for backing up my statement.
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            • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
              From 1948 to 2015, there were five periods when the 'unemployment rate' according to the BLS, was BELOW FIVE PERCENT. See link above, set dates to 1948 and 2015 and click "go" button.

              Visually, the Average looks to be around SEVEN per cent over that Entire Time.

              I refuted, not 'backed up' your statement. Sorry.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                BLS? lots of people starting thinking Bureau of Land what?

                In any case you keep leaving out the initial ten percent gimmee so it's ten percent of the work force minus seven percent of 90 percent. Prior to Clinton the gimmee was 5%. I reckon 15% is just around the corner if not 20%

                SOS.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
    Pass new laws that require more paperwork and regulations. That requires businesses to hire clerks to handle all that.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      Not any more. the business version of Turbo Tax will do that. Either way what it accomplishes and the only thing accomplished is more expense in the overhead column and that means shafting the end user the consumer.

      Remember the old song. This government ...what is it good for... absolutely nothing.
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
        Our consititution was set up to limit the powers of the government, so it cant get out of control. Well- that didnt work !!
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
          The problem with the constitution or with any organizing document or philosophy is that if the majority of the people choose to ignore it, they will and it then becomes just a piece of paper.

          This is also relevant for someone who wants to have a real world Gulch. If the majority of the people decide that the government should really be handing out goodies and empower the government to do so, all the Objectivist philosophy that everyone agreed to will go out the window.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            Ah yes but then some of us didn't wait. We already departed. Finally in exactly the right place at exactly the right time. Neither a day to early or a dollar that's short. Your right it did become just a piece of paper. So I'm going to take it and go see if there is some place it can be put to use. Panama patterned theirs after ours. But as one of our instructor down there mentioned 'it's only as good as the people you hire to implement the words.
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 2 months ago
    This expensive social heroin binge statists have been pushing is going to have some really painful long term social withdrawal symptoms. And the consequences have barely begun.
    Predictions: The free market will be blamed. The unborn will pay.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      Absolutely! The last 7 years is all that should be needed to prove Keynesian Economics doesn't work. I think you are right though. The powers that be will blame the Free Market and the sheople will believe it.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      Long Range the unborn will pay. Short range Grandpa and Grandma ARE paying. Those Walmart part time jobs must look pretty enticing to the formerly solvent recently retired. Also in the face of closings Dollar Stores under different names are expanding and Amazon is feeling NO pain. I'm not impressed with there product search program but the rest of Amazon is Amazing!!! I just finished buying Christmas from my boat added some spare boat parts and computer batteries and a new RCA Cell Phone for me. Sears? That name sounds vaguely familiar? What's a mall? Why do I not care?

      That's where a lot of your Christmas job bumps are coming from in the fulfillment industry. Pickers, Packagers and Shippers. Not to mention the computer skilled that put it all together. Some of that bump will stay as more turn to internet shopping and let the malls close.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
    Problem definition according the article: US economy added 142,000 jobs in a single month.

    How is this a problem? Was unemployment high to start with? Actually, it was at near historic lows.

    If unmployement is at historic lows, business valuations are high, and the economy is still adding jobs, what do we have to work with to discredit politicians we don't like?

    The true answer is that politicians did not create 142k jobs on top of already low unemployment. For those whose area of work is discrediting others the answer requires a huge mental stretch: People do work for willing customers and take what they earn and risk it on ideas to serve more customers.

    That's what creates 142k jobs in a single month on top of an already-low unemplyment, in a world where people have all kinds of luxuries the previous generation couldn't have dreamt of.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      Once again the lesson must be taught. Figures Can Lie and Liars can figure.

      Given - There is always a bubble before Christmas which disappears after Christmas.

      The formula used by the government is - this version since the mid nineties.

      Announce the number of people in the work force.

      Subtract 10%

      The 90% left are magically renamed 100% of the work force.

      Figure how much employment has gone up or down. Subtract that from the neo100% which is really 90%.

      Let's assume 200 million in the work force. doesn't matter it's a sample....

      the new 100 % employment is 180 million. the 20 million are disappeared. Plunk your magic twanger froggy!

      Employment is listed as 100% Employment goes down five percent. The government claim will be 95% unemployment

      It's really five percent of 180 million plus 20 million conveniently disappeared earlier. Five percent of 180 million is...nine million. 29 million are unemployed out of 200 million. 85.5%o employment.

      But let's assume five million workers get jobs. we now have 105% employment? No. We find there has been a mistake or error in projections of the number of people in the work force. Froggy plunks his twanger again.

      Changing the number in the work force is especially handy when there is a large unemployment figure. Wow you mean there wasn't 200 million but only 190 million? Let's see minus 19 million is 171 million employed

      The figure used up to WWII's end was zero percent adjustment. After it was 5% until Clinton then it went to 10%

      But all the BS and spin aside spin is still another word for deceit.

      The government has one fatal flaw working against it. They aren't known for being truthful.

      but get ready here comes the next big wave of unemployment when the military gets cut. Ha ha they get preferential treatment and for most their jobs back in the civilian sector. Those displaced? Why we just add them to the ten percent that don't count.

      Whatever the real figures are apply the minus ten percent rule to the governments current projected work force population THEN factor in the unemployment numbers.

      They are very transparent and arrogant in this. No attempt to cover it up as with the voters registration count.

      Glib but not believable.


      Reverse it five million are added to the roles.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 2 months ago
        Michael's response here reinforces what I've been saying all along but perhaps not with the following words--
        Do not believe the face value of anything the regime tells you about anything.
        Our radical Marxist presidebt is the worst Liar-In-Chief in American history.
        What could be called Obamanation has spread like a fetid immoral rot throughout every department and agency that directly answers to him.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
          "Do not believe the face value of anything the regime tells you about anything."
          Of course. But don't just throw up your hands and declare life a box of shits either. Instead find bellwether companies who products are correlated with the sector of the economy you're interested in. Look at sales at companies like Caterpiller that make things correlated to the economly. Look at number of overnight packages shipped by UPS. Look at a 100 indicators to make investment decisions. Ignore those who make a living telling you whose to blame for how crappy things supposedly are. Seek multiple independent sources and execute based on the facts.
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          • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 2 months ago
            Thanks for a couple of investment tips to to check out.
            My recently passed away dad left my brothers and I a tidy inheritance. He was a millionaire.
            I'll won't put too much of that into stocks.
            Some of my "conservative" email is about the expectation of stock markets crashes, bubbles bursting and complete economic crashes leading to survival situations, but I've also noticed such email is about someone trying to sell me something.
            I still expect something bad to happen with the gigantic debt Obama doubled.
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
              If he was a millionaire I hope he passed on some investing advice too. A starting point would be to do the wise things that caused him to build wealth.

              I say don't worry about the marco issues if you don't understand them, like the topics of those stupid e-mails. Instead I would focus on investments in things where I can clearly understand why customers give them money and how they can get what they provide at a good price and make a profit.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                not being on that end of the spectrum but thinking about it I wonder why take the risk instead of working on protecting and securing what one had? As someone pointed out to me that's what zero interest T bIlls are for funnily enough. I took a different route. No commissions involved. Fit my cautious personae. Timing and a bit of luck was everything. Now I'm still not liberal rich but on the other hand I'm not poor and not only covered the loss of buying power but as bit extra of the ready. My goal was replace the retirement should it suddenly stop for whatever reason. That is my house so to speak and I'm not mortgaging it literally speaking.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      Unemployment is not low, that is the problem. The U6 number which many consider a more accurate rate is still above 10%. If the labor market was as tight as its being reported then wages should be rising which they are not. I find it strange that Sanders, Clinton and Biden are all talking about jobs. If we believe the reports we are at full employment and all is well. Even they know how badly these numbers are manipulated. Good point about politicians not creating jobs. Doubt that will ever change.
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      • Posted by robgambrill 9 years, 2 months ago
        Personally, I no longer believe Unemployment or Inflation figures, I think they are manipulated to protect those in power.

        In employment figures, they don't count those who gave up, and in inflation they don't count food. How are either of those things not part of the picture?
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
          The big culprit for the inflation or Cost of Living Index picture is not counting devaluation of buying power. 2008 triggered the biggest one in double digits we 're still getting one to one and half percent per year adjustments. Screw me once shame on you screw me twice shame on me. I left before the second screw job. Near as I can figure with the current change in exchange rates minus transfer fees I'm just about caught up with the government engineered 2008 crash. Thanks for less than nothing Mr. President from SOUTH of the border.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
          Exactly. Anytime I hear "seasonally adjusted" I tune out. When Q1 GDP came in negative I heard someone complain that the formula for adjusting GDP needed updated. Not surprisingly Q1 GDP was changed to positive.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            Figures can lie and liars can figure. GDP as a percentage of debt service or the other way around is oif interest. That would be NDP. As I recall the treasury put the breaks on because NDP had decreased below the amount needed to service the debt all the other cutesy figures become moot when you can't pay the light bill.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
          "I no longer believe Unemployment or Inflation figures"
          "In employment figures, they don't count those who gave up, and in inflation they don't count food. "
          But you believe figures from sales figures of food companies or wherever you do your research, which is a good thing. If food producers are able to raise prices w/o sales hurting, maybe consumer staples are the place to me. If you think this expansion has run its course, which I suspect is getting close, maybe it's staples and anything that's not correlated to the economic cycle. I am not an investing guru, but I'm much more interested in a collection of numbers from various companies they say are trustworthy rather than arguments for why a set of numbers is not trustworthy. Identifiying solutions is more valuable than identifying problems.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
            I dont believe ANYTHING our government or media for that matter throws at us. Everything has hidden agendas to support something they want. The best I can do is attempt a translation to uncover their ulterior motives, and also to find facts (when available) to really find out whats going on. In my experience,non government jobs are becoming more scarce, particularly higher paying ones (except for the wall street type jobs that are being fed by federal reserve money printing). Government jobs are secure (for the time being) and pay a lot. Thats because they take in tax money at the point of a gun and arent held accountable for any results.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        I couldn't find any other source that reported a higher than 86% adjusted back to the claimed job force total UNLESS they have adjusted that figure.. However the Christmas Bump rule is still in effect.What goes up for the make or break time of the year must come down.

        I always wondered about an economy that depended so heavily on one day of the year and not on the combined averages of 12 months and so heavily on retail sales versus the rest of the economic sectors.

        Perhaps someone knowledgeable in that area might offer a comment
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
        "I find it strange that Sanders, Clinton and Biden are all talking about jobs. If we believe the reports we are at full employment and all is well."
        I believe we are at full employment and things are fine. Politician talk about jobs b/c it works. They turn unrelated things, like alternative energy, into alternative energy jobs. People respond to the jobs thing.
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        • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
          Except for certain circumstances, no business person in their right mind would WANT more USA employees if there is any other option. Who wants to CREATE jobs really along with all the downsides the government and the courts throw at us when we do create the jobs?
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
            "Who wants to CREATE jobs"
            I'm trying my damnedest to do it. :)
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            • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
              what for? so you can have the hassles of employees and pay the government more and be regulated more?
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
                "what for?"
                Just to make money.

                "so you can have the hassles of employees and pay the government more and be regulated more?"
                When I see hassles, I try to find someone who thinks of that particular hassle as an interesting game or puzzle. I'm very far from an expert at that; I'm learning as I go.
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                • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                  You have more patience than I !! I have taken the easy route and substitute automation where I can, and cheap chinese labor where that fits. The whole idea is to make the most money with the least hassle and interference from government. Sometimes, one is trapped into hiring and putting up with American workers, I understand. I try to minimize this
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 2 months ago
                    Yes. My colleague and I have a big chunk of work coming from setting up automated systems. We want that to be more. The world is in the midst of an automation revolution.
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                    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                      Absolutely. You are smart to get in on this. Even our small company is big into using automation to reduce costs and hedge against the day that china wont be an option. I love the fact that there are so many hobby type sensors and drivers availalbe from the likes of adafruit, pololu, and sparkfun. The technology is getting down to the hobbyists already.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
              It is rather difficult when three layers of government are against it. Oregon would rank at the head of the list for being anti job anti business anti pretty much anything except exporting high school seniors and learning be Amsterdam West.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
          So are most of the news sources including the non liberal sources. I'm seeing low eighties employment some of them are making a case for as low as mid sixties counting the fell off the back end group and the initial ten percent Mulligan gimmees.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
      Given the growth in the number of those eligible for jobs, roughly 220,000 new jobs need to be created each month to maintain employment. Less than that, and unemployment should rise. However, the government, rather than count all of less than retirement age as part of the workforce, ignores those who have given up looking for work, and counts part-time employees the same as fully employed. The reason the government unemployment figure remained the same was because more people gave up looking for work. If all eligible for work, whether actively seeking employment or not (except retirees and disabled), are counted, the unemployment figure is over 10%. If part time employees wanting full time employment are included, the figure of less than fully employed rises to 16%. Some estimate much higher numbers, but I suspect they've included retirees in their calculations.
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
    Funny how the folks at Fisher Investments don't think there is any 'global slowdown'... looking at leading indicators and a LOT of the nations' GDP growth over the past few years...

    Love the MainScream Media!
    or love MarketMinder.com
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
    Funny... I just watched a Fisher Investments web-talk that pretty much squashed the 'logic' in each and every one of the worrisome claims in articles like these...

    China, for example, can't dent the US Dollar's importance in the world economy. Their economy is agrarian, despite their internal efforts to create a serious manufacturing economy. Meanwhile, the US economy is moving past 'manufacturing' to 'consumer.' China's seen the handwriting on the wall as their future and are struggling to move successfully to that next phase.

    Their economy is top-down-controlled, one of the worst possible ways to get 'er done on earth! Their currency does not float, their bond market is negligible as far as the Outside World is concerned, and their "sudden drop" in growth... to the 6-7%/yr range is about what their 30+ year average growth has been, except for several engineered spikes. So a return to average is a catastrophe? Only for mainScream Media types.

    Have you bought into that line, too?

    No, they don't own all the US debt... the US does... something like 60+%. Europe owns about another 25%. China? Don't go there.

    Honest numbers about Obama's 'Recovery' show some of the lowest stock market returns for his first term-and-a-3/4 since pre-Hoover for 3rd and 4th years of presidential reigns.

    Try MarketMinder.com for more realistic appraisals of reality in the economic world...


    No, wait... don't.... if you followed Ken Fisher or MM publications, their analysis and strategies would be adopted by more Thinking People and they might not do as good a job managing MY retirement funds with too much new competition.

    Wife and I have been with them for 11+ years and after ALL fees and withdrawals (about $700k so far,) we're about 2% down from where we started... If SocSec doesn't evaporate, we've got a good cash flow for our lifestyle for about the next 125 years, per my spreadsheets.

    And for about 13-15 years if SocSec went to zero tomorrow. (and we're in our 70s, essentially.

    Enjoy!
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      England is owed more than China and has been at the head of the pack for some time. The Chinese got caught in the great inflation, devaluation and debt repudiation racket. Cycle of Repression strikes in many different ways.
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      • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 2 months ago
        I agree with Fisher's view... the Carrying Costs of the US' National Debt is roughly equal to One Year's "income" for the US government...

        Most folks' home mortgages are 3-5 times their gross income. That's almost exactly what it was for me when I bought my previous house in Silicon Valley in 1978. 3x.

        Those numbers are only scary if you're closely tuned to the MainScream Media's Adrenaline Generators.

        If you are... Enjoy! But don't think I'm going to take those 'arguments' seriously.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
    and meanwhile The New York Daily News has signed on as Propagandist Mill for ISIS. Anyone know how much NYDN is laying off or perhaps DKNY? What's the spin? Give it up!
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 2 months ago
    They'll probably just pull the plug so we can't see the results of their handy work and do a china on wallstreet, investors and businesses.

    No selling of stock
    No going out of business or going bankrupt.

    Sound like Atlas Shrugged?
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  • Posted by davidmcnab 9 years, 2 months ago
    Follow the money.

    Ask: who stands to profit most from another collapse?

    In the 2008 collapse, it was the lenders wanting to offload their toxic loan books, and the investors who passed up on the due diligence.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      Which they were forced to make by government edict regardless of the results of due diligence. Personally I think the corporatists and the statist are used to screwing each other it's some sort of kinky thing. But don't blame just one side. They are the same just as Democrats and Republicans are the same. Two faces one party and all left wing fascist socialists run by an elitist power group. To turn the screws a little more the government changed the required operating regulations and ran the complying banks out of business. Some pigs and some banks are more equal than other pigs. i laughed my ass off a year or so later watching the SFB protestors outside a Bank America - not my favorite place- for not paying their 'fair share' of taxes. Literally in Sebastopol, California standing outside looking at the idiotic signs. One was worse than the other. So they got pissed off until i explained. Businesses don't pay taxes dumb ass. their customer pay all the taxes. it's called a Cost of Government column and lives after the usual legitimate book keeping entries and before final profit.

      .
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