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Two Cheers for Rand Paul: The Kentucky Senator Brought the Libertarian in Debate

Posted by sdesapio 9 years, 2 months ago to Politics
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From the article: "At last night's GOP debate hosted by CNN, the Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul brought consistently brought libertarian—or at least libertarianish—perspectives on major policy debates. Whether that jumpstarts his presidential campaign is anybody's guess, but it was a bracing and welcome development."
SOURCE URL: https://reason.com/blog/2015/09/17/two-cheers-for-rand-paul-the-kentucky-se


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    Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
    The only chance that the GOP has of doing what the party claims are their goals is if Rand Paul is the GOP candidate for president.
    If he is, the GOP will win the presidency in a landslide. Rand Paul will DESTROY Hillary Clinton in the eyes of the voters. She will have a nervous breakdown before the election as her abject failure becomes obvious to her.
    Rand Paul is the only GOP candidate that has displayed any statesmanship, any gravitas, any ability to reason as a public servant on behalf of the American sovereign people.
    All the rest are obviously power-hungry monarchists.

    Of course, the media will attempt to discredit anything that Rand Paul said, because they are beneficiaries of status quo and the media is most deserving of the titles power-monger and king maker. They would suffer a great loss of power if Paul was the GOP candidate and they will do anything to prevent that.
    That is why they will praise Carly Fiorina beyond all reason.
    Fiorina is the classic candidate. She will say anything that her audience wants to hear to get elected. She is brilliant at selling herself to her audience and will follow through on all her smaller government promises just as GOP candidates have in the past. In her most admired moments of the debate she pledged to do things that conservatives have been brainwashed to desire: build the world's strongest military, don't even talk to Putin since Russians only understand force. Not a single detail on how to pay for all the promises she makes. Not a word on limiting government, only more programs and more spending. Carly is by far the slickest snake oil salesman on the stage, a perfect GOP answer to Hillary, a GOP queen who is easily controlled by her lust for power.
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    • Posted by ChestyPuller 9 years, 2 months ago
      I couldn't agree more, A Rand Paul, Huckabee or Rand Paul, Palin [I know, I know] ticket would be best for this United States... I say Sarah Palin only because there are no other choices...We need REAL AMERICAN's in the White House.

      Rand has proved his stance for us by his lone filabusters in Washington...notice Cruz and Rubio didn't show up until the Tweets were slamming them so badly they went even though days earlier they called Rand a fool and said they were against him. They sound like true insiders to me.

      Remember, Trump Carly, Cruz, Rubio and the others, possible exception for Scott Walker and Carson, do great studying and reading their scripts...but scripts are never the truth!
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      • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
        Who else has the history of voting in defense of the constitution? Ron for VP.
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        • Posted by ChestyPuller 9 years, 2 months ago
          That would be awesome [former Ron RNC Electoral voter], But, Ron is past that now...Same mind yes but, maybe two different mindsets together are better
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          • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
            An outsider (non GOP), e.g., Gary Johnson.
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            • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 2 months ago
              Just from what is on the shelf, I would have to go with Ben/Rand ticket, only because I still do not see him having a clear understanding of just what he can/can not accomplish. I think Ben has the ability to out think almost any one of the buffoons in politics he would run into. He never seems to say what people want to hear, but seems to say what they need to hear, in ways they will listen too. I think he could even gather in the conservative leaning democraps out there.
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              • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
                Ben's anti-gun stance is enough to disqualify him for me at present, but it won't matter. He's just there as window dressing to make it appear the GOP is considering him. The process is a corrupt bad joke on the sovereign people. It's time for a woman with experience in wrecking a business to take charge of the final destruction of America.
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                • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 2 months ago
                  I must respectfully disagree, I have not found any place where he says he is anti gun or not supporting the 2nd amendment. I also have not seen anything to indicate to me he really gives a rats a@@ about what the Party wants, or that he is bounbd too. He seems to steam his own course, so I am really finding I respect him and I also love how he refuses to be baited. He trounced a CNN dude who tried to manipulate him into certain things, and he did it very intelligently and never raised his voice.
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  • Posted by mspalding 9 years, 2 months ago
    @freedomforall statements may have been correct in the past. But I think Rand would be instantly smeared with charges of hating the poor and worse. His policy suggestions are correct and would result in more wealth for everyone. But the yelling would drown out the logic. For example, if you say eliminate the minimum wage, pundits say you are hurting poor people. Of course a high minimum wage means less poor people (or poorly skilled people) have a job at all. And no minimum wage means anyone can have a job. Similarly, ending government run health care means people bleeding to death in the streets. Ending the $140 billion Department of Agriculture means people don't eat or maybe farmers go broke. The current culture will not elect Rand Paul.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 9 years, 2 months ago
    I would vote for Rand in a heartbeat. But libertarians are principled thinkers and there is an enormous foundation of knowledge needed to appreciate it and that does not exist in the United States. As Henry Ford said, "Thinking is hard which is why so few people do it."

    The last time I voted my "conscience," I, by default, elected Bill Clinton.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
      I agree with your thinking in the first paragraph.
      Your Clinton example proves my point on voting for evil. Had George Bush won, the march toward one world dictatorship would have been even faster because there would have been less resistance from so called conservatives. Today it is even worse. Voting for any GOP candidate for POTUS will be a vote for dictatorship because the GOP leadership will never allow any uncontrollable liberty minded person to represent them. With so many better candidates available, the GOP leadership chose Dole and McCain. The GOP selection process is rigged.
      I also think that it won't take 50% of the population leaving the GOP forever to elect an outsider (or force a coup to try to prevent that transfer of power to the people.) If we, who HAVE the knowledge base you cite, don't start the process and vote against evil then the likelihood of violence becomes likely, imo, and the result is likely to be more dictatorship and a complete loss of liberty.
      We must educate and if we vote, we must vote on principle, against the state party.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
    Of all the prospective candidates, Rand Paul comes the closest to Objectivism. Unfortunately, for whatever reasons, he has as much a chance of winning the nomination, let alone the election as frying and egg on a car hood in the wintertime in Maine.
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    • Posted by JCLanier 9 years, 2 months ago
      Herb: Unfortunately true. Rand Paul would be my choice but we will not have the honor of that vote.
      So I go for turning everything on its head and that leaves me Trump.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
        I find it interesting that Republicans tout this group of 11 as the best and brightest who are vying for the nomination. Since as an Objectivist, I would judge them by the standards I hold for myself, I would eliminate 6 of them at the outset. Anyone delusionary enough to hang in after being at the bottom of the list for the next "debate" should be eliminated. Finally, when they're down to two, I'd pick the one less likely to do anything, because in Washington, even good intentions turn out to be crap.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
        If you vote, the only rational choice is to vote for good, for individual liberty against evil, against intrusive, unconstitutional repressive, corrupt government.
        Voting for either the Dems or the GOP would be the latter.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      What would happen if all the non-RINO republicans curently in the right wing of the left staged a palace revolt. Are they in the majority of that group or not. I think not but suppose there were more non-RINOS than RINOS. Take over dump the RINOS and come out with some strong legislation such as getting the anti bill of rights provisions of the Patriot Act changed.

      It's a dream and I doubt there are more than five or six non-RINOS in any case so your analogy holds true.

      What they are saying and what they will do or can do are two entirely different things.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 2 months ago
        I have given up on all the "Party" crap. They actually think if you are either one of these gangster groups, then you HAVE to believe what they say, give them huge money, and kiss the ground they bless you by walking on. Nope, Ben and Rand are all there are, and maybe a handful in the House/Senate. The problem is any group that tosses the party get skewered in the end by the same said party. They will eat their young if the young do not pray to them. Arrogant snots, all of them.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
          Ok so we all start the Anti-Party Party and use it for a rally point for everyone who doesn't want to support the left wing establishment Humanoid Party by whatever name.

          First plank in platform is frustration.

          I'm only half saying that with jesting tongue in cheek. The other half is grappling with the germ of an idea and wondering if it's attitude and if so is it attitude that can go blog viral.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            Carson so far in this case might work. As you can see it isn't thought through enough yet. More an expression of 'frustration.' And maybe facing reality head on.

            One things for sure can't get any of the good stuff done with step one and that's cracking the one party system barrier with their little two party or two shell and no pea game
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        • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
          You are being far too kind, Nick.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 2 months ago
            I know, but really, I am fed up with the arrogant attitude that pervades business and almost all other forms of discourse where if you do not do what "they want", including the idiots you are paying them to do something, they proceed to tell you why you are such a bad person. Another reason I like Carson, I have yet to see him castigate anyone, and he has a rich field to pick from....
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            • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago
              Like your paraphrase of Trump's comment about Rand Paul's looks ;^)
              I agree. The arrogance and holier than thou attitude has been more obvious in the past 25 years. Before that it was more subtle, but still consistently degrading.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
    As much as I liked what Rand Paul had to say, did anyone notice that there was only one person who applauded after a couple of things he said. I think I heard a few crickets.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 2 months ago
      That's his problem... it doesn't matter how popular you are in Kentucky, the Carolinas, etc... Texas, California, New York, Florida and Ohio drive the electoral college. lose more than basically 2 or 3 of those, and you don't really have a chance of winning a general election. While I think his message can work in a general with some tweaking, he's just not a good fundraiser on a large scale, and you can't do a door-to-door or bus tour campaign in Texas or California.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 9 years, 2 months ago
    It was comforting to hear Rand Paul. But, nobody engaged him so he did not get to say much. The establishment group wanted to keep the focus on them, and they were successful.

    If the debate rules were change so each person had the same amount of time, less trivia and thanking of family members for attending would happen. Suppose, for example, there is a one hour debate with ten candidates. Allocate each candidate six minutes. The candidate can spend the six minutes in whatever way it (notice non-sexist) chooses.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
    Just a general comment as finish up the last of the morning Coffee and The Gulch.

    "That was certainly a stimulating morning!

    and with Radio Interrupted working thanks to all who made it possible."
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  • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 2 months ago
    Don't be misled by RP: his Libertarianism is not a good thing; he is still FAR from an Objectivist.
    Fiorina stands out to me as the most rational.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 2 months ago
      If you look at Fiorina's record at Lucent and HP though, unfortunately, she's prone to being a pathological liar. She was fired by the Hewlett and Packard families for both lying to them, and not operating the company in the culture they embraced.

      My dislike of her stems from that, if you are a CEO of a company that is largely held by the founding families, you are in effect, a steward of that company. You have an obligation to operate it as the families wish (or you will be shown the door in relatively short order, as was the case).
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      • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 2 months ago
        She drove Lucent into de-listing on the stock exchange after it fell below $2.00 a share. She never seems to brag about that...

        HP stock & company valuation went up over $3 billion within an hour of the news breaking that she had been fired.

        She's really trying to run on a record of running a business that, frankly, is not that great. And in the immortal words of the Oracle (Jack Welch), "It's much easier to run a big company than a small one... big companies have people that take care of details for you... small companies you have to do it all yourself."

        I'm also really turned off by her name dropping "I've talked to Putin before". Wonderful. She met with Sheik's, etc.. in the context of getting an HP trade deal no doubt or supplying their government with HP computers, or taking advantage of Dubai's free trade zone, etc. Big deal, many CEO's have.

        Personally, I think she has narcissistic disorder. Characterized by the inability to admit or analyze one's own faults while assuming they are the "only one" that can do X or Y.

        Let's be honest, Barbara Boxer is probably the worst senator in US and California history, and Carly couldn't beat her... what makes her think that she can win a general election for the presidency? (Answer: Narcissism).

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp-4H...
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      • Posted by tdechaine 9 years, 2 months ago
        Your story is generally an internal one which has not held up externally. It seems she did what was asked of her and then the board did not like the result. Time will tell. She's still the brightest, most objective one running.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 2 months ago
          Not internal, I've never worked there, my IRA got the crap beat out of it by her on many occasions.

          As I said... Narcissistic or bipolar disorders (while in manic episodes) can seem very charming, it doesn't mean that their business acumen (no doubt gained from her degree in Medieval French Literature) can adequately back up their claims of success or future expectations.

          She went from running one of the largest companies in America, for a very short period of time, to chairing tiny little 5-person charity groups. She also happened to marry an AT&T executive a few years before (being promoted very rapidly) to running Lucent... You have to wonder, if she hadn't married one of the top guys, would her merits alone have gotten her there...

          "Following her resignation from HP, Fiorina was ranked as one of the worst American (or tech) CEOs of all time.[89][90][91] In 2008, InfoWorld grouped her with a list of products and ideas as flops, declaring her tenure as CEO of HP to be the sixth worst tech flop of all-time and characterizing her as the "anti-Steve Jobs" for reversing the goodwill of American engineers and alienating existing customers.[92][93]"

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_F...
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          • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 2 months ago
            She realistically squashed innovation at HP, reverted it to a status quo completely dependent on absorbing Compaq (and their innovation teams) into HP to make the company viable. Then got rid of all the innovators and market changers from Compaq... in general, if you had a high salary, you were probably in danger. In the tech world, you need those people to survive.

            Now... over 20 years later, realistically, HP hasn't invented anything that is worth anything. Apple and Dell pretty much clean their clocks every day of the week and they are still living off the remnants of the Compaq product lines they absorbed while everyone else has moved forward.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 2 months ago
            Spinning off the analytical chemistry part of HP as Agilent Technologies (now Keysight) was one of her first decisions. That part was high profit and innovative. Carly kept the less innovative part. My comments come from a customer perspective.
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