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Then we have Consensus and Agreement, which means Our Common Truthiness has even more Truthierness than it did before!
Sign in my old office...
Rule 1 - The boss is always right.
Rule 2 - If the boss is wrong, refer to Rule 1.
[a little non-Objectivist philosophical humor]
---Prog/Lib-"Logic"
If everyone agrees what's left to question?!
Get on board or get out.
No. Really.
----
(Love the pic - KH!)
(Flamethrowers. We need more flamethrowers.)
But the leftish philosophy holds that reality is subjective and is different for different people. If that is true (huh?) then there is nothing that is true, or for that matter false, so any answer is as good as any other answer and 2 + 2 = 3.14 or 4.13 or 1.34. Or 2+2 = 5 -- close enough.
"Those who think they are always right are
very irritating to those of us who are." ;)
Seriously, I apply the math (logic, values, philosophical principles and experience, if applicable) then I draw a line, add it up and the sum total is as close as I can arrive to truth at that moment in time. For me it is a process to arrive to a "truth" but you know it when you get there- laser burning sharp. That's what I loved about Rand, you could not escape her logic, you knew she was right.
This is a world of lazy thinkers. The "truth" requires "thinking" i.e., acquiring knowledge, processing, countering, calculating... all persistent hard work from which many abdicate.
Start with a rational code of values supported by objective fundamental philosophical principles.
Apply reason and logic, follow all the evidence, and your conclusion about anything will be right in the context of knowledge available.
Where there is contradiction among individuals, only one side can be right - objectively right.
So one should always be cautious about knowing they are right.
Philosophy, like our connotation of truth, is not the end of a discussion. Philosophy is a way to organize what we may know at any given point in time. Once new knowledge comes to light, this organization of thoughts should adapt to that new knowledge.
Truth is an end to a portion of a conversation; it only applies to the laws of nature and the physical laws of the universe. Still, at some level, as far as mankind is concerned, it applies to our present understanding of these laws.
Facts, as my mentor so often says, are “often just someone’s opinion.” We should only use what is empirically observable, demonstratable and repeatable, as fact.
Am I Right on these things? hahahahahahahahahahaa
If reality is objective, how will applying reason and logic lead to error?
Consider global warming. Many people argue about temperature trends, however the data generating those trends is manipulated by logic to standardize it. This manipulation may or may not be correct. The data used to come to conclusions may or may not match reality. No one person can perceive all the different measurements that go into declaring what the temperature actually is doing.
There is a real answer, being sure we know what it is is trickier. We should not assume that because reality exists we know it perfectly.
2nd, how is perception flawed?
GW is not an example. Any data that is manipulated to prove a point is not done so with logic. Using all the evidence available, a logical conclusion has to match reality. I think you simply don't accept that reality is objective.
Two people can look at a pair of colors and one will perceive them as identical and the other will detect a difference. In this example the second person is correct because they have more accurate sensory information -- the first person can logically declare "I can perceive that they are the same and since there is a true reality, they are the same." and just be wrong.
Science often requires logical chains to adjust and standardize data. These chains require assumptions, any of which could be in error. This means the conclusion, although logical could also be wrong. If you are performing logic on false information it doesn't come out well.
And absolutely, we can and do make decisions on the basis of imperfect knowledge. The question you triggered this discussion with "How do you know you are right?" is thus answered: "In most cases you can't be, you just have a working hypothesis."
I have noticed in discussions here that many people assume that the existence of a true, knowable, reality implies that they know what it is. Any issue sufficiently complex enough to be interesting to discuss has sufficient opportunities for error in analysis to avoid certainty.
Once 'all' information is shared, you might well be able to determine right. The problem is that in all but trivial cases you can't be sure you have 'all' information. For example in any discussion of the economy we rely on economic statistics which have vast opportunities for error in their collection.
There is a flaw in the classic Sherlock Holmes rule that "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" that is that in the real world you can never be sure you've examined all the possibilities. There are always possibilities that you haven't identified.
It's very difficult to come up with a simple example that we will disagree on the conclusion and agree that we can legitimately disagree. I can probably come up with things that we will disagree on, but then we won't agree that they are examples!
We can't look for information that is not available to us - knowledge is contextual.
I don't recall any time in my life where it was not possible to draw such a conclusion unless dealing with irrational people.
Having all the information necessary in dealing with real world issues is far more complex than one would hope. The reality is that you usually have to come to conclusions with far less than the whole truth and thus your conclusions are potentially in error.
Knowledge may be contextual but reality is what it is. You may be able to build a house utilizing the idea that the world is flat because in that context it makes no difference. But the reality is that the world is not flat and that the decisions you make based on the assumption that it is will, in different contexts, no longer work.
There is an actual reality that if we actually know what it is our decisions will be valid in all contexts.
Where does the "whole truth" come from if not already there?
Knowledge is gathered with a full grasp of reality; why do you think they are in conflict?
Why would a rational person do anything based on a false premise (e.g. the world is flat)?
Why do you think we can't perceive reality objectively?
And, logic and reasoning while theoretically capable of being perfectly performed are also capable of error, especially if there are many complex factors to be considered. The fact that it can theoretically be done doesn't mean that it has done in any case.
The "world is flat" argument has been used in a number of discussions of a example of the efficacy of working with imperfect information.
Why do I think we can't perceive reality objectively? We have sense organs, they have limitations. For example we believe objects are solid although physics tells us they are almost completely empty. In fact there is some question if anything in there is solid but that goes beyond my level of physics.
So the idea that we are dealing with solid objects is one of those examples of imperfect information that we deal with routinely.
To be clear, the fact that the world is real and that we are capable of perceiving it to some degree and using reason to analyze it means that there is always a right answer to be found. I just don't think that we are usually in possession of it, only successively better approximations.
What in the H do you think indep. thinking is?
You are not clear.
Of course I agree with that statement.
We are waiting
To find out.
I'm going to take a break
Get a glass of water
And finish up some other matte
check in later as I oughter.
the fact that we now have one makes it more likely to serve more,
in the future, since naming something makes it easier to find it!!! -- j
.
I know that I am right because eventually reality is on my side.