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Donald vs Hillary - Disgusting or Hillarious

Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 2 months ago to Politics
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"On one side we have a rich, fat, old, white, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, candidate with an unpleasant voice, an arrogant manner, and an authoritarian personality. On the other side we have Donald Trump. Apart from sex, they’re like two megalomaniacal peas in a pod.What is a voter to do? Imagine a ballot with Benito Mussolini and Eva Perón. Choose one. Go ahead. "
SOURCE URL: http://www.libertyunbound.com/node/1455


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  • Posted by Unbeholden2NY1 9 years, 2 months ago
    If the Election were tomorrow I'd jump
    For neither The Bitch nor The Trump.
    I want honesty and ethics
    And a long-missing mix
    Of courage and vision
    To be the new mission.
    Since most of the insiders
    Are political spiders,
    An outsider or two
    Is long overdue!
    When I look at them all
    I like Carson or Paul...
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  • Posted by bsmith51 9 years, 2 months ago
    Well, for me, recognizing that the business of America is business, not social justice, I'd hold my nose and go for the one who has at least some clue about business. Sorry, Hillary.
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    • Posted by Zero 9 years, 2 months ago
      Orren Boyle knew something about business too. Would you vote for him. Half the villains in AS are businessmen.

      What kind of fool goes through multiple bankruptcies without learning just a little humility?
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
        Trump's bankruptcies were business, not personal. When you're involved in as many businesses as he is, some are great hits, some are self-sustaining, and some are a bust. The guy is worth $9B, so he must be doing something right. If Trump was as megalomaniacal as some paint him, he wouldn't be able to let go of anything, and would have failed a long time ago. I'm not a Trump fan, but looking at his professional performance objectively (isn't that what we're all about?), he is very successful. Given only the Trump-Hillary choice, I'd have to go with the one with the most demonstrated success, "the Donald."
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        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
          Yes, Trump does know how to give himself a way to dump any failure on other shareholders. Reminds me of Goldman Sachs in that respect. Suck in other investors to lower your personal risk and if the venture fails the small investors get destroyed while Trump goes on his way virtually unscathed. If the venture succeeds, Trump gets the glory and the lions share of profit. This is the way that wall street has worked for 100 years, and it's disgraceful. Should a person use his wits to give himself an advantage against his competition? Yes, of course. Is it ethical for a person to lure investors into a project that he promotes and treat the investors as his enemy, contractually imposing all the penalties of his failure on the investors? Emphatically, NO. Trump is a disgusting, unethical whore. A contractual vampire squid. Just like Hillary.
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
            To think objectively, it's best to deal in facts. Unless you have documented proof that Trump committed fraud (a chargeable, criminal offense), I would say he acted legally, as do many other business owners every year. Investing is a gamble, just like a spin of the roulette wheel, and anyone who thinks their losses can only be the result of conspiracy is at least naive. As a major stockholder, Trump incurred far more loss than most of the other investors, but his wealth from more successful ventures more than offset his losses. You seem to project a hatred of capitalism.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
              Conspiracy- an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons
              Every deal that Trump does includes "surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons"
              By definition, they are conspiracies.
              Anyone who thinks they aren't is naive.
              "Just like a spin of the roulette wheel"
              You think the gambling "industry" is the ethical goal that businessmen should model their actions upon?
              There is nothing in my reponse that indicated a legal offense by Trump. Trump acts as a businessman with the ethics of a looter in the Wall Street bankster tradition.
              I have no hatred of capitalism. I have a dislike for unethical practices by people who claim to be ethical productive businessmen.
              Trump and his attorneys created contracts in his deals to reduce his risk and increase his profit as much as possible at the expense of other shareholders. Trump is not unique in this; it is accepted practice in business. Being accepted does not make it ethical, nor is it a criticism of 'capitalism' to point out the faults of current accepted unethical practices.
              I think that Trump wil act in the same manner if he is elected POTUS That is not acceptable practice for any president.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            I particularly didn't like how they used one of their employees to become Secretary of Treasury and through him engineered the Mexican Teserobono bailout wherein GS had the largest exposure. The money came from Social Security collections and Railroad Retirement Trust funds and Ruben didn't recuse himself although he had a direct financial interest.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 2 months ago
    it's a choice between a loose cannon and a cannon pointed
    at my gut -- I pick the loose cannon, and will learn to dance. -- j
    .
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      I got the starbucks thread started. it's much the same as you just said with fifty seven different flavors.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 2 months ago
        Heinz 57 with Ds and Rs mixed together, all dead-set
        Against Us. . you are right about that, sir!!! -- j
        .
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        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
          Take control and get behind the cannon by voting for independents.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            I will agree with one important caveat emptor. In searching for results of presidential elections I've found that write ins and votes for other than Republicans and Democrats are now routinely awarded to the winner take all rule and are rarely listed by number or percentage. Which has swayed me to the none of the above by leaving that portion of the ballot empty. Getting more difficult with Oregon's slimy new vote by mail with ballots sent to out of date addresses but poll watching used to be the method to detect and account for fraud. For all I know someone punched out one of the candidates anyway. Which means don't vote on anything. The amount not registering nor voting is called 'undervote' It's now around 40% to 50%.depending on the type of election.

            I'm posting a Question on this topic...
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 2 months ago
    I don't like either at all, but my choice would be easy. I would pick Trump. He is a clown, but would do more of what I want, and if impeached, would have a running mate I'd like better than Hillary.

    Hillary is fundamentally threatened and opposed to every ideal of the gulch. She is untrustworthy. No one will have any idea what she is really up to in the oval office.
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    • Posted by xthinker88 9 years, 2 months ago
      I'm not sure why you think Trump would do more of what you want. There is nothing in his background to indicate that he is not a big government democrat at heart.
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      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 2 months ago
        I view this a "randomness" vs a known evil. For example, Trump might want to do something with Obamacare, but I doubt it will be along the lines of Obama. He will probably try to figure out a way to make it more affordable. Hillary will try to further it and entrench it.

        Hillary will 100% try to move more power to government, and not just in funding. She will try to strengthen the EPA and every other legislating executive branch agency. I know she will do this, and she has the skills and staff to effect change in government. Trump may not even be able to get things done. Trump will probably not take this tact unless he gets too frustrated with congress.

        If we are lucky, either will have to deal with Republican controlled congress, and little on the left will happen...maybe.
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        • Posted by xthinker88 9 years, 2 months ago
          What is it about Trump except for his recent speeches that actually makes you believe he is anti anything Obama did? He decided he had a better chance on the republican side so is crafting his message accordingly. It's all bullshit if you look at his past history of statements, the book he wrote, his cronyist approach to capitalism, his admitted bribery of politicians, and his use of eminent domain to steal people's property for his projects.

          Trump is in no way a conservative, a libertarian, or objectivist although he is sort of pretending to the be first on TV.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 2 months ago
            "What is it about Trump except for his recent speeches that actually makes you believe he is anti anything Obama did?" Well, for starters, his 2011 book Time to Get Tough was a non-stop rant against Obama.
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          • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 2 months ago
            Agree, but still not as bad as Hillary.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
              But is anyone as bad as Hitlery?
              Stop throwing away your vote for Republicans. They have betrayed you for 155 years and that is not going to change.
              Voting GOP because they are arguably better than Democrats is the main reason that there is always more government and less liberty.
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              • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 2 months ago
                What are you recommending? "Signing a petition" for an independent that has no chance?
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                • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                  The only reason independents have 'no chance' is that people would rather vote for a supposed lesser evil instead of FOR someone who will defend liberty.
                  YES, vote for someone who is for liberty and against the state. Stop wasting your vote.
                  GOP voters are like Jews in Nazi Germany, pretending the enemy who only kills half your family is an answer, when it's nothing but consenting to murder. There will be no improvement until conservatives leave the GOP and have the courage to vote for someone who has ethics and integrity to promote liberty instead of just someone "better than Hillary."
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                  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
                    The problem with your solution is that it doesn't answer the question of how to overcome the power of the established political parties. As an intellectual exercise, fervent independence is fine, but you wind up waving banners that don't even draw backwater media attention. You have one of two choices to have any significant impact: create a new mass movement, which means overpromising what your party will do differently in a way that has the emotional appeal to draw strong public/media support; or infiltrate one of the major parties and change the message from within. Rand Paul is trying to do the latter, and seems to be failing. Creating a new mass movement would require a greater marketing skill than that of Trump. Lots of luck with that.
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                    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                      I disagree with your conclusions. The power of the parties is based on continuing to get votes from people who fail to see they are being betrayed repeatedly. Is it easy to change this? No, but the alternative is continuing enslavement. The choice is simple.
                      1) Continue to consent to the existing system. Be a slave.
                      2) Peacefully resist by doing the thing that the parties fear the most: take your votes elsewhere. Your votes are the only thing that disguises the slavery for the evil that it is.
                      3) Revolt using force.
                      You go ahead and consent. Be a slave. Lots of luck with that.
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                      • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
                        I don't disagree with your aim, but to be successful you have to have a means to convince "the masses" to rebel against the system. Ranting about the need isn't the same as spelling out a convincing plan on how to execute.

                        There is a very uncomfortably real set of circumstances that could lead to violent revolution, but I don't think it will come from a purposeful, planned event. The collapse of law enforcement would drop the demand for security on the individual, fighting against criminal elements. If government chooses to view individuals defending themselves, their family, and their property as a vigilante force, a battle between government and the people could very well ensue. Who knows what happens after that?
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                        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                          Violent revolution is not the solution I would choose either.
                          As long as people that call themselves conservatives continue to vote for the GOP there will be no change in the growth of government and the loss of liberty. However, more and more people are coming to the rational conclusion that the GOP is no more an answer than the Dems. Assuming my goal is to work for a peaceful, political solution, encouraging thoughtful, rational people to come to that conclusion is worthwhile and the seeds I plant will grow and spread, and the voting power will be transferred to more ethical candidates outside the two parties.
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                          • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
                            Timing is everything, and given the growing popularity of the "non-politicians" in both parties (Sanders isn't a non-politician, but he's very unconventional), the public is showing your view isn't so foreign. People are simply angry at the "business as usual," and are looking to a solution outside the established (entrenched) Party "anointed" like Hillary and Jeb. Carson seems to be the only candidate I would consider entirely trustworthy. The question has to be whether or not the voting public is ready to take the next step and give a new party strong support. If it becomes obvious that the DNC and RNC are working harder to take down the "upstarts" than win the Presidency, I think the tipping point will have been reached.
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
      Hillary is the modern day reincarnation of Nixon, with all the secrecy and self promotion that he had. We wouldnt know what she did until she was out of office.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
        Nixon was an amateur with a conscience. No comparison to 21st century looters. You think Hillary would resign in disgrace? No chance.
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        • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
          She obviously lied and hid bad behavior, and she is not backing down on her campaign. She SHOULD withdraw her candidacy.
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
            She doesn't know the meaning of the word or words. It used to be called appearance of impropriety. Now it's anything we say it the truth at the time we say it if it serves the party.No wonder the Demos are hand selecting Trumpet Boy. A it doesn't matter which one and B. she'll get more of the lesser of the two evil votes and all of the bubba butt brigades votes. Two Left Wing Smiley Face (scratch Smiley insert 'two' that where Hillary is concerned) Fascists Socialists and once again it's a rigged vote.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
      There will be other choices that aren't a wasted vote.
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      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 2 months ago
        Certainly in the primaries, but in the general if Trump is the R and Hillary is the D, anything other vote is simply signing a petition.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
          Anyone who continues to vote for the GOP after being repeatedly betrayed is giving consent to exactly the socialist nightmare that exists today.
          Stop pretending you are doing something to slow growth of government and look at the results of the past 30 years. Voting for the lesser of two evils is a perfect example of Einstein's definition of insanity: repeating the same action and expecting a different result.
          Conservative voters have been doing the same thing for 30 years and what has been the result? It's time to wake up and desert the lying, looting GOP because they have failed to do ANYTHING they have promised and instead have continually done the oppopsite, leading to bigger government, more socialism, less liberty, and a pathetic managed economy with no chance of improvement.
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          • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 2 months ago
            Agreed, but...

            Then we should be campaigning mightily for killing the two party system in the general election. There is nothing in the constitution about it, and one could bring a case that the ballot having D and R options to click and a write-in only for another candidate is unconstitutional. Make everyone write in their vote of select without instrumentational bias from the field of options.

            ...otherwise, I go back to "we are throwing away our votes." Go ahead. I'm not doing this, unless there is a landslide for Hillary. Anybody is better for our country than Hillary.
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            • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
              And votes only count if you spell the name right?
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                Most places all those votes are given to the number one 'vote getter' under the winner take all provisions. Your vote is then changed to reflect the opposite of what you intended. Catch 22 they got you coming and going. The only way to win....is don't play their game.

                Current lineup , approximately.

                All Democrats are a lost cause they do not have quite enough for a solid majority.

                Most Republicans are Democrats by another name RIN

                Some Republicans might be convinced to join the third largest group.

                Non-Voters, Independents, Third Party Voters, and Write-in Voters.

                Add in those that might be inclined to register but not vote.

                Non-Registrants, Non -voters, and Republicans who are faithful to a party that is not faithful to them.

                That's your target audience. They also number more than the Democrats.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
    Both were fascist. There was nothing to choose to between them except Benito invented the term when turning his socialist followers into a national rather than an international term. All it means is complete government control of everything. Eva followed in Juan's footsteps. The almost humorous part was Madonna making a film which made a heroine out of Eva Madonna an airhead limousine liberal of the left was never asked why she supported a fellow airhead supposedly right winger. Because they were compliments of Benito the left and right wings OF the LEFT. Choosing between Trump and what's her face is much the same. Either way you are going to get a left wing President.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 2 months ago
    I'd vote for Eva. At least she'd have a great theme song in "Don't Cry For Me, Argentina."
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      That's one thing she did right in real life. Out of work radio actress and professional 'escort' as I recall turned politician. Now there is an idea. Heidi For President. At least bring a serious note to the conversation.
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  • Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 2 months ago
    If she is elected, then the "rule of law" in our country will officially be over.

    If he is elected, government cronies will undergo a population explosion. His supporters remind me of that friend with a new girlfriend/boyfriend "that can do no wrong".
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 2 months ago
    I think you've got something there. Let's sign them both up for Ashley Madison and have them both receive steamy e-mails from one another. They were meant for each other.
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  • Posted by dukem 9 years, 2 months ago
    My own view is that we actually know who Hillary is, at least most of the people on this list do. Howewer, Trump and Obama are the ultimate Rorschach Test, in that people project their own "stuff" (fantasies, hopes, dreams, fears) onto those candidates. Their persona is different, but the people will have their dreams fulfilled, one way or another, even if in a fantasy.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
      Well, I would take anyone chosen at random over HIllary. As to Trump being an unknown, he isn't the same as Obama. Obama tried to fly under the radar and never actually did anything. Trump has done lots of things, good and bad. He has a clear record.

      Not as a politician, but if you can build buildings in New York City, you understand politics.

      That being said, I'm not sure who I'm voting for in the Republican Party. I like Rand Paul a lot, but he doesn't seem like he's a serious contender. I don't want Bush -- Republicans like him keep the water boiling under the pot we frogs are in.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
        Doesn't matter if you vote Republican your a supporter of evil. Don't feel lonely if you vote Democrat you are a supporter of evil. Only debate point is which the greater and which is the lesser.
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 2 months ago
    Contrary to the article's assertions, Donald Trump has produced "a lucid statement of his political and philosophical views," which can be found in his book "Time to Get Tough." Rhetorical style aside, Trump's views (as presented in this book) are predominantly mainstream conservative with a slight Tea Party flavor. Hillary's views are predominantly mainstream liberal. While neither candidate fully practices what he or she preaches, and neither is a libertarian, there are clear and obvious differences in their political and philosophical beliefs.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
      That is true so I'll give the devils their due. Trouble is they both belong to parties which are famous for saying one thing and doing another. Where's the credibility?

      No Where!

      What you'll now here is some flavor of give them another chance. No way fifty years of having no credibiity is enough for me. Meaning without credibility or ...the truth isn't in them. Forget the PC definition.

      What part of Republicans being lapdogs of the left have you not noticed for the last umpteen years. Rhetoric means zero. Actions are what counts. Three strikes your out only takes three words. I'm A Republican (Democrat)
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
    Trump and Hillary are opposites. Trump speaks his mind, Hillary hides behind private email servers. Trump is a business person and would stick up for the USA. Hillary did nothing as secretary of state. Trump could convince people to get together. Hillary splits them apart. For me, Trump is the better choice. We need a real change for 4 years, and he certainly would do THAT.
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    • Posted by xthinker88 9 years, 2 months ago
      I think it's naive that you think that Trump speaks his mind. He is telling people what he thinks they want to hear. He is a consummate showman first and foremost.
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
        Well, I sure dont see anyone else throwing caution to the wind when it comes to political correctness. I am tired of people running around apologizing for the "n" word they used 15 years ago so they can look good. If Trump thinks Megyn Kelly is a bimbo, he is entitled to his opinion, and I happen to think he is right on that one. She was very unprofessional in her questioning, probably caving into the management pressure to be 'tough on Trump". As to Rosie O Donnell I would agree with him also that she is kind of a low class non intellectual. I want to know if the emperor had no clothes, and Trump is one of the few who would tell me.
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        • Posted by xthinker88 9 years, 2 months ago
          Good reasons to get your vote? Because he trashed a couple of women on TV? Really?

          In terms of policies he is a democrat and has always been. He just knew he had a better chance by pretending to be a republican. And he has proven that there are a lot of suckers born every day.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
            Of the potentially electable ones who are running today- at least he would tell us when the emperor had no clothes and would stick up for the USA internationally. Hillary surely wont, Biden is part of the currently corrupt system, the various republican candidates are either mired in religious fervor, or are just never going to be elected. Not another Bush for sure. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
              Trump will do what's good for Trump. Expecting anything different is irrational.
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              • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
                "Trump will do what's good for Trump." Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that sound like an Objectivist?
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                • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                  You think the office of President is supposed to be a source of wealth and power to the individual who holds the office at the expense of the American people? That is what Trump thinks, based on his past actions.
                  Or do you think objectivists have no ethics, and do not take fiduciary responsibility for the public service jobs if they hold them?
                  When he is running for an office where his actions must be to represent the American people, not himself, Trump can be depended on to dump his failures on the American people, and take the profit of any success for himself, exactly as he has done in his businesses. He can't be trusted in any position with fiduciary responsibility to America.
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                  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 2 months ago
                    Unfortunately, we've had too many political power figures who've viewed their positions in exactly that light. I have the impression that the only believably ethical candidate running for the Presidency is Dr. Ben Carson. The question is whether or not Carson can overcome the image of his inexperience against the political machinery that's weighted in favor of the Party animals.

                    Remember, the original question was that if the only choice was between Trump and Clinton, who would we choose. I'm uncomfortable with Trump, but absolutely fear the destruction of the republic will be completed with a Clinton Presidency.
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                    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                      Actually, the original question was: "what is a voter to do?"
                      The answer is vote for liberty by removing your support from both the GOP and the Dems.

                      You may be right about the entire field of candidates offered by the GOP and the Dems. The concentration of power tempts them all, and none can be trusted. The real solution is decentralization of power, and, as you noted earlier, neither of the parties want their power reduced.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
          you could have found that out right here in this forum. Pretty low price for throwing away your vote.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
            Sun rand was right . Arguing Politics is pretty much useless without a firm philosophical base. So my vote today isn't worth much when there are so many people who do not think. I have to choose the lesser evil or just don't vote at all
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
              Choosing any form of evil is a confession that you support evil and are 'commanding it's presence.' And that will make you a slave to the system by your own consent. If the only way offered is don't vote then that is the only way offered. You don't have to join the secular devil's congregation. Not voting is another way of saying "Get behind me!" Secularism is a form of religion.

              In a religious sense I don't believe there is any such thing as a Democrat or Republican Christian. One cannot serve two masters and adhere to the demands of two oaths. Ergo sum it's two oxymorons.

              In a secular sense you either honor your oath of Citizenship to the Constitution or you don't.

              People who didn't serve in the military or other public offices and were born in the country don't have to make that choice with one sort of exception . Their citizenship was bought for them by others if they are female.


              The excepton.....

              If they are male they come under the Military Conscription Act where in they are coerced by threat of jail and fines to volunteer and bought and paid for with college loans and promises of government jobs and a little side benefit the promise of no jail time nor fines.

              Involuntary Volunteers the ultimate oxymoron.

              All you have is your conscience. One you said the magic words 'lesser of two evils' you made defined the situation and made the choice.' Now go look in the mirror and define self respect.
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              • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
                Rant aside, choosing the lesser of two evils means you support less evil. Making a third choice that will not result in your choice winning has the effect of removing your vote from the lesser of the two evils giving the greater evil a better chance to win and is thus voting to keep greater evil.

                Unless of course the two evils are equally evil then it doesn't matter what you do.
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                  That's called framing the debate. The choice is are you a supporter of evil or are you not a supporter of evil. Choose one you become a slave to evil. Choose the other you don't.
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                  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
                    "Framing the debate" is a way of disguising reality by expressing it in terms designed to elicit a specific conclusion. You put a box around the issue to force the choice you want. I reject that as a strategy. What is, is. You don't 'frame' reality to make it look a certain way.
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                      Why not it's my reality. I also choose to use pre PC definitions look for answers that aren't contradictions or end in futility.

                      People who support evil are by definition evil people. A left winger would undoubtedly say that about me.

                      The degree of evil is irrelevant. What is relevant is their definition of evil or translated what are their morals, values, and standards. If any.


                      Left Wing fascist socialism is evil.

                      Both eventual choices belong to political parties which are left wing, socialist and fascist in that they both support government control over citizens to one degree or another.

                      I support the opposite.viewpoint

                      Under the choices allowed A, B or blank the only moral choice is not playing the game of Evil.

                      My conscience is clear, I maintain self respect. I have not indulged in play pretend. What others choose to do is their choice. At least for a while. That's getting problematical.

                      What choice you want is unboxed. You get to choose according to your ...personal beliefs. You still may and can say I'm choosing the best of the best choices. And if your choices are the ones that rigged the election don't worry be happy.
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                      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 9 years, 2 months ago
                        You are responsible for the consequence of your choices. If you make an ideologically pure choice that results in a consequence of greater evil then you have created greater evil. You cannot hide behind the making of a pure, but functionally useless choice.

                        I supported Perot because I didn't want either Bush or Clinton (damn here we are again), I would have preferred Bush as the lesser of two evils but as a consequence of Perot we got Clinton. I accept that I helped elect him.
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                        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 2 months ago
                          Bueno put the two together we've covered it I like the addition of accepting consequences of one's actions.

                          I consider supporting the present system functionally useless and hastening it's demise not only useful but a requirement - the opening of a counter revolution in rhetorical terms.

                          I most certainly do accept the consequences and have done so for fifty one years. That was the first time I swore to uphold the Constitution. The mission now is to get it back. Looking at it objectively I can only say what does this government have to do with that document?

                          My useful phrase for that is A citizen has rights and responsibilities. Without both the other must surely fail. (The exception of course are the draft laws.)

                          I still applaud the Perot supporters. they accomplished one great objective. That of forcing recognition of the reality of the present system and it's perversions. For that Thank You for serving your country. It was not a waste nor the wrong thing to do. It was a necessary step.
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                          • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                            The Perot supporters also awakened the one major party to the danger of any other option, and they are relentless in preventing anyone they cannot control from selection as their candidates. That alone should have conservatives who support the GOP running for the exits, but most keep drinking the cool aid.
                            Its our job to awaken their minds to the insidious slavery they are living and to provide a way to break those chains.
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              • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                That sounds great philosophically, but I really doubt there will be choices like absolute perfection vs less than absolute perfection. Obviously I would vote for the perfect candidate in that case. But if there are a series of less than perfect candidates, if one does not vote at all, one lets the other people choose among the less than perfect candidates- and you get to live under their choice.

                If there were two candidates- one of them Hitler and the other Trump- would it make sense to not vote at all? Or to vote for the lesser evil.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
              Then you will be a slave by your own consent.
              I will not.
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              • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                Living in a democracy, we are all slaves to the biggest mob really whether you consent or not. I bet you pay their taxes and obey most of their rules or they simply take your property and jail you. So given those options aren't you consenting to be a slave ?
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                • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                  I won't comment on what taxes I pay, but in reply I state emphatically: I do not consent to be a slave. No one holds a gun on you and forces you to vote for evil. You make that choice and consent yourself. I do not. You claim to want freedom and you act to continue increasing government enslavement. I do not.
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                  • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                    Are you sure you don't empower them. I bet you buy things at local stores and live somewhere Both those are taxed and I do resent paying those taxes but I can't live in the USA without paying them. It makes me want to shrug. But even sun rands characters supported the statists
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                    • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                      As stated, I won't comment on my taxes.
                      We are tallking about consent.
                      When someone threatens you with force beyond your ability to defend yourself, you are not consenting to their wishes, you are being robbed at gunpoint.
                      When you cast a vote for continuation of this robbery after decades of evidence, you are giving consent with knowledge of the evil it represents.
                      Stop giving consent to enslavement by your enemies.
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                      • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                        I understand your position. There is a fine line I am trying to define I suppose. I could grow my own food, but I choose to buy it from others. If there is a tax on those purchases I suppose I am willingly supporting the government. Almost everything I buy is taxed one way or another so the best I can do to not support the looters is to work and buy as little as possible within the framework of the U.S. Economic system ( to shrug).
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                        • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                          The topic here is voting, not taxes. You CAN support your liberty by not voting for statist candidates.
                          The idea of a consumer strike is also a promising one, but the government party encourages FUD among us that only serve the purpose of enhancing the government's power and preventing united efforts that would change the situation in favor of liberty. We have to concentrate on one goal, reducing government power. We must stop taking the bait and giving 'one more chance' to lying looters in the statist party. They have proven repeatedly that they don't deserve support or consent.
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                          • Posted by term2 9 years, 2 months ago
                            I really should know these things, but what happens:
                            1) dens get 32% let's say of electoral college republican get 33.5% and an independent gets 34.5%. Does the independent win?
                            2) only a small number of citizens actually vote, say 10%. Is the election still valid or is it required that a certain percentage of citizens vote
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                            • Posted by 9 years, 2 months ago
                              "If no candidate receives a majority of Electoral votes, the House of Representatives elects the President from the 3 Presidential candidates who received the most Electoral votes. Each state delegation has one vote. The Senate would elect the Vice President from the 2 Vice Presidential candidates with the most Electoral votes. Each Senator would cast one vote for Vice President. If the House of Representatives fails to elect a President by Inauguration Day, the Vice-President Elect serves as acting President until the deadlock is resolved in the House."
                              http://www.archives.gov/federal-regis...

                              AFAIK, there is no quorum-type requirement on voters.
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  • Posted by Eudaimonia 9 years, 2 months ago
    I have called Hillary "Hillita Clintón" pretty much ever since the musical Evita was promoted during the Clintón years with the obvious goal of promoting Hillita.
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