How to bring capitalism back socially to the US?
Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 4 months ago to Ask the Gulch
This subject came to me as something useful to have discussion about based on the thread in the link.
I have some ideas and some things I do within my teams I am a director over, but would love to hear what others are doing to overcome an entitlement social conditioning in the US.
My teams in India (and in past companies China) are very committed to getting the task done. It is not so much the same way here in the US.
I have some entry level technical jobs here in the US. I hire out of college, and often a year or two before they finish college. The kids I hire, many of them for their first Job are generally good workers. In the 22-25 range they often do not even care about making more money, they want to work 40 hours and leave work behind. Getting the job done has far less meaning to them than the time away from work.
In contrast my India team will get the job done but lack the creative minds to tackle problems on there own. If I give them a great procedure they get it done, but they seem to lack the creative capability of US staff.
How do you get the US staff to work like the India staff, and the India staff to be creative like the US staff?
I have some ideas and some things I do within my teams I am a director over, but would love to hear what others are doing to overcome an entitlement social conditioning in the US.
My teams in India (and in past companies China) are very committed to getting the task done. It is not so much the same way here in the US.
I have some entry level technical jobs here in the US. I hire out of college, and often a year or two before they finish college. The kids I hire, many of them for their first Job are generally good workers. In the 22-25 range they often do not even care about making more money, they want to work 40 hours and leave work behind. Getting the job done has far less meaning to them than the time away from work.
In contrast my India team will get the job done but lack the creative minds to tackle problems on there own. If I give them a great procedure they get it done, but they seem to lack the creative capability of US staff.
How do you get the US staff to work like the India staff, and the India staff to be creative like the US staff?
It would help if we stopped handing out participation awards to the youth just for showing up... I have turned to paying commissions/bonuses as apposed to only hourly pay to some that are motivated as an option. It also spurs others when they see the example. For too long in this nation we have been fostering the idea of entitlement without effort. This is no way to inculcate an entrepreneurial spirit and proper motivation to excel.
Respectfully,
O.A.
I am finding that the latest generation no longer are motivated by the ability to earn more, They are satisfied with less money and shorter work hours more so than more money, doing a better job and taking more time to get it done.
I have always done salary positions with a bonus program based on achievement. It has provided for a good work and life balance. You take care of the work and you take care of your family and do it each as it needs to be done. I may move things back to an hourly position because of some of the attitudes I see in the new work force. Its a bit frustrating.
Jan
This particular nephew is a controller for a state college with about 40k students. He is a very capable person who surprised me when making this statement. He is in his late thirties now so a little older than the others I have brought up.
I some times think the only way it will change is for those safety nets to fail. To get to where that happens is very ugly. I likely do not have work in my profession any longer and am farming to produce food and enough to sale to cover the lousy property taxes. in order to reach that point.
There has to be another way. I just can not see it.
I know what you mean. :( It would be nice to believe... to have faith in government maintaining safety nets... But you and I know too much history. Going back to the fall of Rome, many a nation's people's hubris let them think things could go on indefinitely. Unfortunately a government is only as durable as it is solvent and the productive can bear the weight placed upon them. It seems the more generations from a catastrophe like the great depression the more complacent and reliant people become. I too wish I could see another way. I fear not for myself or for you who at least will have the skills to feed ourselves if the time should come in our lives, but for the generations to follow like your grandson who will not have the chances we had and likely will not be prepared. When the time comes it would be better for them if we were still around to help and to pass along our skills.
Best wishes,
O.A.
as the u.s. goes further and further into insolvency?
when the dollar is subject to the inevitable rampant inflation
associated with this huge and horrible overspending,
we will face Rand's nightmare where the dollar will be
handed back to us, with the remark, "Overdrawn." -- j
.
And the nephew is at least partly correct. While I do not blindly trust the 'safety nets' he relies on, we are a far cry from the type of subsistence society where a single dry spell or unusual rainfall can mean your family will starve. It is not all that uncomfortable, after all, to live in your parents' basement and make only a little money...and have all the free time you want to have fun. (In a sense, 'time' and 'fun' are the commodities we are buying with our money. If they are in your grasp already, why should you work so hard?)
I think that this will persist as long as we have an affluent society. There will be fewer people who are sufficiently fascinated by the world to want to work in it.
Jan
And that is why we will see our prosperity stagnate or decline while hungrier more ambitious nations become the creators of products and progress, while we mere consumers borrow until we can no longer get credit to fund our existence. Then what? I think we know...
Regards,
O.A.
Jan
As long as we aren't just sitting in our parents basement playing with someones else's creativity (Video games etc.) while absorbing our parents retirement, but are being creative. I see too many doing just that. this is how we end up having an 18 trillion dollar national debt and an even larger amount of unfunded liabilities. Believe me, I am all for working for our leisure time. That is what we that are all working are striving for. The problem is that too many are not working or striving in the first place, but still riding in the cart while others pull. I have worked hard to increase productivity in my shop and I do employ robotics to do so. The problem is that too many others are not being creative; they are simply free-riders.
The economic facts don't lie. The worker participation rate and median household income reflect this premise.The government has made it easy to sit back and avoid creativity or labor.
Respectfully,
O.A.
While actual machine intelligence is debatable, like the old joke about the mathematician, the engineer, and the blond, we will get 'close enough' to change our game. For example: robot driven delivery vehicles and farm equipment are probably doable today, certainly within a decade or so.
I envision a society wherein the baseline of non-working subsistence includes a house or apartment with utilities, HVAC, tv, computer, all food and clothes. And all this is provided by the robot workforce. I think that 20% of society will have no job at all (passive TV and gaming), 30% will have hobbies that do not exchange value, 30% will have hobbies that do provide value, and the remaining 20% will work for a living.
This image plays havoc with my personal philosophy...I am trying to come to terms with it.
Jan
It's an interesting book (if you enjoy such things as I do), written in 1939, but set in 2086. He foresaw a system that works much like our internet, but thought that travel to the moon would not have happened by 2086.
Jan
Jan
perhaps that makes sense, perhaps not, but it is definitely true for myself.
I also can see people cycling through those groups you describe within there life span. I also think you will have a group that is constantly educating themselves but have no plans for the use of the knowledge other than to get more of it. This I guess would fall into your 30% with hobbies that do not provide any value for exchange. I have a sister and her husband that do this today. It rubs me really wrong.
Jan
They apply for grants (having no other income than a part time psych professor - i mean swindler) which they easily qualify for. The grants pay the tuition costs (full tuition costs) and they pay half. University of Phoenix is rather pricey to attend at about 3k a month for post graduate work.
They make their welfare check and about 36k a year of grants to attend school forever.
I love knowledge, some of it just for knowing. I am a history bug and read quit a bit around history, but even that is largely to identify what they did right or what they did right or what they did wrong so that I can use it to do right more often myself. I would love to take classes of all kinds in my retired years. I would appreciate it as I would have earned it. It is my dream retirement and it really chaffs me to have someone do it who has not earned it on all of our dimes.
Jan
Good to know though. I would love to do that once I reach that age.
Thanks as I was not aware of it.
In the meantime, I am not too busy to keep on reading about interesting things: current historical topics are Egyptian hieroglyphics (learning to read) and European paleogenetics. Also SF...just for the fun of it.
Jan
The robotics and technology that attempts to assist man will see great success.
To give an example of what I mean. For several years the government attempted to create a fully automated system to track down repeat bank fraud in small quantities. They tried to do it so that the computer did it all, it failed.
Paypal in its early days faced the same problem, only they created a system where the computer flagged likely problem candidates based on behavior patters and gave that data to a human, then the human would verify it was a likely problem and do some investigation. This system worked well, and the government licensed it from paypal.
I think that many of the jobs were no thought is needed will be replaced. Computers and robots can sift through data, or do a repeated task well, but they cannot replace the mind.
I think you are correct insofar as where we are; I am less certain that you are correct with respect to where we will be in a decade.
Jan
I do think we will constantly see a shift to the computer doing more of a job. For instance looking at code, the old Fortran had a person doing everything. C++ less as there were more built in function calls. C# much less, as getting a registry key went from about 23 lines of code to 1 in C#. Java even less.
I think it will always take a person to come up with the idea, but much of the code work needed to create that idea will be in a library, and will even reach the point where you provide a few perimeters and a system rights the code.
The game changer that could alter all of this is true AI being developed. If that ever happens I think we are much further from it than Ray Kurzah (spelling likely off) from Google thinks it will be.
The one good thing slowing the collapse... Economic indicators are not good again today. Many in the know are worried.
Respectfully,
O.A.
With that as the background, why bother trying? You're immoral if you win, and only moral if you lose. And you're also immoral if you suggest things could be otherwise.
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts...
I actually taught this in today's class.
On creativity, it can be taught but it needs a supportive infrastructure and work culture built around it to happen. A person's upbringing is also a huge factor. Everything and everyone has a context! And yet, part of that context is that we are all human beings, so there are some things that we can all do and strive to do, in our core person.
BTW, I used the ideas in this book (plus a few others I could mention If you are interested) to create an innovative culture and ecosystem in my employer's company site of 5,000 people. And I helped it spread to sites in other states and countries.
When a person has pay that is not yet comfortable money is the major motivator. When a person is comfortable money looses some of its motivation power and autonomy becomes better. My team members have a great deal of autonomy in there work. Its something I really work to make sure exists, it is the secret to my success as a manager. Creating processes that provide autonomy for the individual what getting the group to move in the same direction.
It use to be that in that environment money would become a motivator again. That seems to be gone with the mid twenty workforce today so its time to look at different options for them.
This video refreshed some of those in my mind so thanks.
Speaking as an aunt (by way of my hubby's sisters – I'm an only child), kids today have no ambition (other than wanting things they cannot afford, and they want it NOW! - we have a nation of Veruca Salts), no work ethic and no ability to plan for their futures.
Hubby and I have lots of nieces and nephews, ranging in age from 5 to 30. But I'll just use a few for examples.
Case in point: One niece is 25. She's absolutely wonderful with children. A natural. In high school, she expressed an interest in child psychology, and asked me if higher education was required. When I told her it required a master's degree minimum, she quickly lost interest. She then looked into other fields, all requiring at least a bachelor's degree. Again, no interest. She wanted a high-salary job that had minimum work hours and only required 2 years in a community college, the most time she was willing to “waste” in higher education. She wanted lots of free time to party with her girlfriends and buy Coach bags and diamond necklaces (where do working class kids get the idea that they can afford designer bags and diamonds when they aren't willing to work for them????).
She's married now, and her husband is just the same. High school graduate, wants big things, not willing to work for them. With him, it's performance cars with lots of after-market items. He goes from job to job, every 1-2 years. He's worked at hardware stores, grocery stores and currently does installations for a big cable company. Within 6 months of every new job, he's seen kvetching on his Facebook page about how much he (bleeping) hates his job and how much of a (bleeping) jerk his boss is. And when he's asked to do a little overtime, he goes ballistic.
When they became engaged to be married, they decided that they wanted a house. Never mind that they didn't have a down payment, they needed a house. I don't know who gave them the down payment, but I know my sister- and brother-in-law co-signed the mortgage (this is the second kid they've done that for – God help them if anyone defaults) and paid for the wedding and honeymoon.
They are now parents of a wonderful little girl, but live in a house of cards. They live from paycheck to paycheck, no savings for their future, no plans beyond a few days. Her hubby is about due for another job change, which of course means no private health insurance for a while, but “it's okay, we can use Obamacare”. And undoubtedly mooch off their relatives.
A nephew has his act together (partially). He went to a trade school and is an underwater welder. So far, so good. But the human body can only do that for 5-6 years. He has no clue what to do when his 6 years are up, and he's halfway there now. In 3 years he has to find another career, and has made no plans.
Another nephew just graduated from high school. When asked what he intends to do next, he just shrugs. He has no clue, and really doesn't care.
One of my younger nephews (age 12) aims high. He wants a mansion on the water, a yacht and a high-priced car (Aha, thought I, could this at last be the fires of ambition?). Nope. When I asked how he was going to get wealthy enough to pay for this, I got a blank stare. He is of the opinion that by just wanting it, somehow it will magically appear. No mention of hard work, education, or starting a business. I was crushed.
This is the pattern. Kids want something, they ask for or demand it, somebody scrambles to get it for them. Like I said, Veruca Salt.
And it's hardly any wonder they have no ambition. When they've not been allowed to fail while growing up, they believe that they cannot fail as adults. That there will always be someone or something to bail them out.
They are all immature. Children in adult bodies. The only solution I can think of is to allow them to fail, and see if they can manage to find their own way.
As for future generations, it's up to today's parents and schools to cut the mollycoddling and let them get their bumps and scratches young, so they can prepare for a self-reliant future. No one is teaching capitalism anymore; it's a dirty word. Get the commies out of the education system; home school your kids if you like, but teach them capitalism and objectivism.
Have we already gone over the abyss? I fear so. Didn't Lenin once say that he could create collectivists with one generation of schoolchildren? It seems he was right.
AR "what is capitalism?" CUI, 19 LP discuses in Capitalism as the only moral social system, " OPAR, 380.
I do not believe it will come back anytime soon based upon the above definition.
and I will give you the man." https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question...
My experience in having done business in Asia is that they teach in concepts, not factoids, and there is much more devotion to family among young people. Largely the opposite of what is occurring in America.
Taxes = money loaned to the government (voluntarily or forcibly) in expectation of some return on investment - unless government is involved.
Taxes are a way of punishing success and Fines are a way of punishing failure.
Self Esteem is an unearned reward for continued failure AKA social promotions. Self Respect is something one awards to one self for achieving anything at the highest standard possible..
You can add more if you wish...
You can't teach creativity. You can emphasize problem-solving, however. So start rewarding your Indian workers who solve specific problems. What I might caution against is equating creativity with the unorthodox solution. Don't get so hung up on how the problem gets solved that you ignore the fact that the problem got solved. On the other hand, however, don't equate all solutions to the problem, as that is where you lose the "creative" aspect you are looking for. It might be difficult, but you are going to have to quantify how well the problem got solved in each case so that you have a baseline to use to demonstrate to your Indian workers about how creative approaches differ financially. It's clear they have the drive to produce, they simply need to be prodded to extend themselves. So give them the opportunity to lead projects so they trust in themselves. Let them make mistakes and then coach them that mistakes happen, but can be learned from (to a point). The common problem with the authoritative culture is that of fearing to offend or let down the authority figure. The only way to overcome that is to emphasize to them that you will be let down only if they do not try.
For your American workers, the questions are polar opposites of their Indian counterparts. The Americans have the creativity which comes from wanting to do their own thing, but not the discipline necessary to stay with things when the going gets tough. That is the ultimate challenge you face, and I don't know if a solution to this exists because what you would actually have to overcome is the inertia already present in their value system. The only way to overcome this inertia is by their own choice: they have to decide that either their premises are incorrect and that the safety net isn't as safe as they think or they have to see themselves as possible of more than mere bottom-feeding. One is informational, the other motivational, both highly subjective.
Good luck.
list them ........ then Leave Them Behind. . start talking about
inches and yards, for example, and degrees F. . compel them
to go Outside Their Comfort Zone!!! . then give them a task like
inventing a new way to do their job, regardless of how silly --
turning a wrench with their left (or opposite) hand;;; starting
phone calls with Thank You instead of Hello. . things like that.
invent new traditions, at work.
u.s.::: give them goals which, when they reach them, result
in an on-the-clock party. . company buys the goodies.
group awards for work successes. . bring some of the fun
of after-work successes into the work environment.
just suggestions from 2 graduate degrees in management
and experience as a dept. head. . Good Luck!!! -- j
.
One of the largest failings of the industrial age has been the change to an hourly wage based on the employee servicing the machine, the production line, the system. Prior to that, a man was paid per unit and quality. Hourly pay has done more to drive the average worker towards unionism and socialism than anything else in our world. We've removed individual pride in accomplishment and competition from the workplace and it needs to be restored.
But the key to it all is the development of the proper metric for each individual. And that includes supervision's metric based on the work of the team.
Creativity requires recognition, confidence in supervision that will recognize, and confidence in self built up by the supervisor's recognition and award of incentives, and incentives based on motivations of the culture of the individual.
As to the US staff, hire children of recent immigrants (not anchor babies) who still have a work ethic.
I would have agreed with you twenty years ago and happily empowered employees to "be all that they could be", sadly in many cases that wasn't very much.