Utah bill would ban transgender restroom use in schools

Posted by Maphesdus 10 years, 10 months ago to Legislation
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Well now, seems like this particular issue is becoming more and more frequent. If I had known this was going to happen, I would have held off on posting the other topic... >_>

Alternate article:
http://lexiecannes.com/2014/02/01/bathro...
SOURCE URL: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57479449-90/gender-transgender-bill-kennedy.html.csp


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  • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
    I hope a modified version of this bill not only passes, but becomes a national law. You are not going to give my young daughter a graphic lesson on what a little boy’s chode looks like just because you want to deny the damn thing exists. You can deny the existence of your anatomy all you want, but that does not make them go away, and you do not have the right to expose yourself to my daughter because you think your gender confusion trumps the decision I have made on what is or is not appropriate for her to see.

    We as a society seem to have decided that sexual criminals are exempt from the idea that once you have paid your debt to society you are free again by requiring registrations, restrictions, and public humiliation for life. At the same time we are blurring the gender lines in young children with thought only for their emotions and none for what issues this may cause later in life.

    That said the way they are making this decision using fetal whatever is strange. A child truly born anatomically transgender is a different matter altogether. I will put this simply. If you have boy parts you use the boy’s room. If you have girl parts you use the girl’s room. Accommodations for physically transgender children are not at all excessive. We should allow the proper accommodations for what is in essence a birth defect.
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    • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
      Let me clarify one thing. When I say "you" I am not speaking of Maph, or any other particular person.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 10 months ago
        No, you're using the generic "one" as I keep doing :)
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        • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
          At first I was speaking directly to Maph as he usually promotes these ideas to coddle the gender confused. When I read my comment it appeared that it might reasonably look like I was accusing him of being someone who would expose themselves to a child, and is NOT at all my intention or opinion of him.
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      Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      Where did you get the idea that transgender individuals want to expose themselves to anyone? Last I checked, restrooms typically have stalls in them, and regardless of one's anatomy, people generally don't pull their pants down until they're in the privacy of a stall where no one else can see them.

      I have a cousin who's transgender, and she told me that prior to her surgery, even when she was changing in a locker room at a public pool, she was terrified of anyone else noticing her genitalia, and so she would always try to change in a stall if she could. This belief that transgender people want to expose themselves to anyone is just misguided and uninformed.

      And why are you bringing sexual criminals into this? What does that have to do with this subject at all?

      This isn't a matter of trying to blur the gender lines, it's an advancement in scientific knowledge which is making us realize that the line was never very clear to begin with.

      Also, in regards to high school and elementary students, it's very often the case that their peers won't even be aware of the fact that one of their classmates is transgender. So by requiring that transgender students use the facilities corresponding to their birth sex, you're essentially imposing a mandate which requires them to out themselves to the rest of their classmates, which could likely create a situation where there is a very real possibility of the transgender student becoming a target for harassment, bullying, and violence.

      Also, keep in mind that sex changes don't just go one way. The media tends to focus on the boys who become girls (male-to-female transsexuals, or MTFs), but the fact is that there are probably just as many girls who become boys (otherwise known as female-to-male transsexuals, or FTMs), though they tend to get ignored by people who oppose trans* rights.

      The image of a grown man in a dress is a favorite propaganda tool of transphobic hate groups, but it is far removed from the truth. If you want an accurate image of what this is really about, ABC ran a story a few months ago about two transgender teenagers, Arin Andrews and Katie Hill, who fell in love after they each changed genders.

      You can watch a video about their story here:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNCJ6Vf7q...

      I apologize if I'm coming off as little confrontational here. You don't sound like you're being deliberately malevolent, but you do appear to have a significant number of misconceptions about this issue. Anyway, I hope I've been informative.
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      • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
        I am not saying that transgender people WANT to expose themselves to others, but it can happen in a changing room or improperly equipped bathroom. I am not going to have my child exposed to what I logically deem inappropriate for her age because someone’s emotions might be hurt if they cannot act like the opposite sex.

        I do not bring criminals into it to insinuate that transgender people are criminal; rather we should not be messing with things like gender reassignment while the person is a minor. It may very well create additional issues with negative effects in the future.

        What I mean is that a person should be required to use the restroom and changing facilities corresponding to their current anatomical gender. A person who is physically a boy should not be in the girl’s room.
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        • -1
          Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
          What about someone like Arin Andrews, who looks like just a regular boy, but has female genitalia? According to your argument, he would be forced to use the girl's facilities, because that's the gender he was born as, even though he no longer looks it.

          And gender transition is actually best done before puberty has a chance to irreversibly alter a person's body. Those who transition before puberty blend in to their target genders perfectly, while those who transition afterwards often have a much harder time of it.

          This isn't just a matter of hurting someone's feelings, it's a matter of ensuring that transgender students aren't forced to out themselves or be put into a situation where they can be made targets of bullying and harassment.

          Here's an excerpt from a recent article about California's law:
          ---------
          "I can assure families that a law like this solves problems. It doesn't create them," Chiasson told Equality Matters. She cited a transgender male (FTM) student who long believed he had to use the girls' restroom. That situation, Chiasson said, caused far more stress and discomfort than when he began using the boys' facilities.

          http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/01/31/...
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          • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
            Andrews is a reason people should not be screwing around with a child's gender. It is a disgusting form of abuse to act on the impulses of children that young. Gender reassignment should never be done below the age of 18 unless there is an overwhelming physical reason such as a disfiguring accident or birth defects.
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            • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
              What's abuse is not letting a child be who they truly are. Forcing a transgender child to conform to the gender norms which correspond to their biological sex is extremely traumatizing for them.

              Here's that video again. Skip ahead to 4:40 in the timeline for a description of what it's like:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNCJ6Vf7q...

              And the actual surgery typically isn't ever done before the age of 18 (with a few rare exceptions, such as Kim Petras, who had hers done at 16), though puberty blockers can be started at age 12, with actual hormone replacement therapy a year or two after that.
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              • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
                I am on a device that does not allow for video. It amazes me how barbaric our society has become, intentionally mutilating children BEFORE the legal age of consent. I just don’t understand. I am honestly trying to understand. I want you to know that. I am not naturally a pigheaded person, but it’s just inhumane.

                I have been looking into this transgender for kids thing and you have an entire sect of people that support casual abortion, oppose the death penalty, and somehow bring themselves to use puberty blockers on minors. What do we have if not a philosophy of destroy the innocent, save the guilty, and mutilate the children?
                I think historians will definitely look upon this time as the 2nd dark ages.
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                • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                  Alright, well let me know when you've watched the video so you can make an informed statement. Right now you're operating on misconceptions and false assumptions. ;)
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                  • Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago
                    I have watched, and i will not deny that SOME successes could be attained, and no, I am not going to focus on the fact the two of them broke up late last year. There is not enough potential good in it to justify messing with the natural development of children. Taking pills to intentionally delay or derail natural development is ridiculous and dangerous.

                    I hate to be cold about it, but I would like to see more animal experimentation before people screw with prepubescent children.

                    I still have no misconceptions about the sect developing with the attitude of support casual abortion, oppose the death penalty, and somehow bring themselves to use puberty blockers on minors. I still see it as inconsistent to destroy the innocent, save the guilty, and mutilate children.

                    There is no reason someone cannot wait until they are an adult to be reassigned or start taking hormones.
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                    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
                      Sure, people can transition after puberty, and many people do. But the effects of puberty on the body are irreversible, and it's cruel to force an individual to endure that kind of permanent transformation when science has a way of preventing it and giving people the body they really want.

                      And there actually has been substantial animal testing done on this subject, to the point where scientists were able to create what were essentially FTM rats by injecting testosterone into a pregnant mother rat. After the baby rats were born and grown, the females of the litter behaved as if they were male, and even tried to mate with the other females. This is incredibly strong evidence towards proving that gender identity really is determined on a biological and neurological level.

                      A few years ago, PBS aired an episode of NOVA titled "Sex: Unknown," which focused on the story of David Reimer, a man who was given a sex change as an infant even though he wasn't a transsexual. The procedure to change David's sex from male to female was suggested by Psychologist John Money, a self-described feminist who believed in the theory that gender was a purely social construct, and that gender identity could be changed by the way a child was raised. However, as the case of David Reimer proved, gender has deep roots in biology, and trying to change a child's perception of their own identity has devastating consequences for the mental stability and well being of that child. The only viable solution is to let the child be who they want to be.

                      Here's a video of that NOVA episode:
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1yT9apMe...

                      If you skip ahead to 15:12 in the timeline, you can watch the part where they talk about the animal testing done on rats.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
    Hopefully it will die. But what about sports? There are reasons we have gender specific categories. That could end up with problems in strength etc.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      You're forgetting about the impact of hormones. I've noticed people tend to assume that transgender individuals still have the physical strength of their original gender, but the reality is that they rarely do. After a sufficient amount of time, the hormones change their bodies, giving them the strength level that's more typical of whichever gender they're becoming. FTMs taking testosterone become stronger, while MTFs taking estrogen become weaker. There's more to gender transition than simply changing clothes.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 10 months ago
    The title seems stupid; why leave a restroom sitting empty? I'm guess, were I to follow the link, that it's talking about keeping school districts from *adding* a third bathroom at taxpayer expense.
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  • -1
    Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
    Here's another story about the recent law in California protecting the rights of transgender students. I figured it would be better to just post the link here rather than making a whole new topic about it.

    One Month Later: How California's Transgender Student Law Is Affecting Public Schools:
    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/01/31/...
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