[Ask the Gulch] Is it okay to pray for someone if they have not asked you to?

Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago to Ask the Gulch

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Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago

well, you entered their "home" of sorts and that may well be accepted by that community. If you don't want people praying for you, you might increase those chances by not attending a churchs ervice. :)

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  Posted by ewv 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  The question was posed as, is it ok to pray for someone else, not someone else praying for you. The answer is of course no. It is self-delusional and therefore destructive. That is true whether or not someone asks you to.
  
  Morality is fundamentally about choices in your own life; it is not centered on relations to other people, which is secondary and a consequence. But in a social sense praying is irrelevant to the person being prayed for unless he is someone counting on you to be rational.
  
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    Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    now you have to make a little joke. :)
    
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  Posted by rockymountainpirate 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  I agree with KH. You went of your own free will into their domain, so you have to expect to be considered one of them. You could have told the lady no. Don't go and you don't have to deal with it.
  
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  Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  True but the woman at the end of my pew had asked for prayer. Her son is addicted to heroin. Why pass her up and pray for someone who hadn't asked. Seems strange to me.
  
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    Posted by conscious1978 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    With due respect, Rich, she may have felt she was 'told' to do so. In that environment, "inappropriate" is highly subjective. Your space isn't your own.
    
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      Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      Thanks conscious and you make a good point. It may have been easier if she had explained why.
      
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    Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    fresh blood :)
    
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      Posted by ewv 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      A shy lost soul ripe for harvesting.
      
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Posted by SharrLee 9 years, 1 month ago

just signed up ... could spend all day here; feel as though I've jumped into a wonderful clear crisp lake of idea AND no foul language .. but for now I have to get some things done around here and look forward to returning ... very impressive site!

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  Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 1 month ago
  
  Glad you are enjoying it. Cover a lot of topics in here.
  
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Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 9 years, 3 months ago

If prayer worked we would have had an impeachment by now. Does that count? :) It has been said that "even atheists pray in a foxhole." but what do I know??? I'm just a joker...

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Posted by SaltyDog 9 years, 3 months ago

Personally, I dislike having someone that I don't know grab my arm, shoulder, whatever. This includes being in any setting, not solely in a church. I consider it rude, and I'll ask politely the first time to remove their hand, the second time, not so nice.

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Posted by N-sinanan 9 years, 3 months ago

I think it depends on what you believe. I believe God and prayer are very personal. Just like I cannot live someone's life for them or make profound changes in themselves for them, I do not believe I can pray for them. It is up to them to have their own conversation with God.

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Posted by MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago

It's the prayers business - no one else's. If you object think of it as a moment of quiet reflection and self examination hopefully including the small phrase. Is there anything needed by the....and then think of kids and family....assuming a tragedy of sorts.

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Posted by MarkGunderson 9 years, 3 months ago

I am new to the gulch.I understand that one must believe in your self and trust your own mind,I do. I am having the hardest time with the God thing.Iam not praying for forgiveness or anything thing like that, I just think this life is so much bigger then me. Is it strange to to enjoy a sunrise or a star lit night and think its a gift.I think god wants me to use my mind to think, save my self,my family . If any of you have been down this road and worked it out I would really like to hear what you have to say. Thank you for your time

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  Posted by ewv 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  What does "life much bigger than me" mean? You are your life. Living a happy life is your purpose. Nothing is "bigger" for you. You can rationally appreciate sunsets and stars without becoming mystical. Your rational, conceptual mind is your means of living as a human being, the essential characteristic of what it means to be human, not an order from the supernatural.
  
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    Posted by MarkGunderson 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    Thank you for your time and thought to my question ! If I am not in a fight for my life I like to take a some time to think about your answer . Your points are well made.I understand that mystics were alway used to control the masses. I am 54 years old and I am looking for the words I need for the time I will need them. Thank you Mark
    
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      Posted by ewv 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      You're welcome. Time for thinking is good. It's of course a bigger subject than what either of us has written here. There is a lot more to it than just "controlling the masses". It involves first and foremost how you think about yourself, your relation to the world, and how you know what you know. I suggest you read a lot of Ayn Rand's non-fiction and Leonard Peikoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand.
      
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Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 3 months ago

They're welcome to waste their time if they want. It's like the Mormons getting their ancestors saved.

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Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 3 months ago

Rich, I figured it out. Maybe this lady could sense the presence of a sinner (anyone who is a fan of Ayn Rand), and knew that she needed to pray for you. :)

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  Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  That's it! She must have seen my Who is John Galt bumper sticker.
  
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    Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    Maybe you are as handsome as John Galt!
    
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Posted by justin_mohr_show 9 years, 3 months ago

Of course it's ok! If you're an atheist and you don't believe in the power of prayer why in the hell would you care anyway? Doesn't make sense to me.

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  Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  It would have meant something to the others. Why spend time with someone who hadn't asked?
  
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    Posted by justin_mohr_show 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    You choose how you spend your own time so I guess if you felt it was that important and maybe you prayed to open someone's mind to the possibility of a supernatural power. I see nothing wrong with that at all, especially if you love and care deeply for that person.
    
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    Posted by kevinw 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    In the church I grew up in it would have been an effort to draw you in or convert you. Somewhere deep in their mind they know that praying for a drug addict is pointless but to covert someone, now that is an achievable goal.
    
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      Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      That makes sense.
      
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Posted by broskjold22 9 years, 3 months ago

Huh? I think you should ask your priest/monk/rabbi about that.

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Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago

I went to Church with my wife yesterday. The Pastor asked if anyone felt they needed prayed for. A number of hands went up and the people made their way to these folks and prayed for them. An elderly woman who I have met before sat next to me and put her hand on my shoulder and began to pray. I don't know why and she didn't explain. I felt it was inappropriate since I hadn't asked. It was awkward and since she was older I didn't say anything. Is it okay to do that if I hadn't requested prayer?

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  Posted by minniepuck 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  Maybe she was confused and thought your hand had gone up?
  
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    Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    The folks who asked were told to move to the aisles so it was easier to reach them.
    
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  Posted by Ibecame 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  Objectively I would have to answer, Yes, it is ok. What they do is their business.
  
  My own personal opinion is that I hope some day to be intelligent enough to have a complete understanding of the entire universe and thus can make a qualified decision as to weather God exists or not and more importantly what does he think if he does exist. I probably won't live that long which really puts a chink in that plan.
  
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    Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    She is free to pray for me if she wants. I just don't know why she came over and put her hand on my shoulder at that time. Others had asked for prayer. Why pass them up for someone who hadn't asked for prayer?
    
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      Posted by khalling 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      Were you wearing your kilt?
      
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        Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
        
        Surprisingly no.
        
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      Posted by Ibecame 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      You will probably never know why she decided, but for whatever her reasoning she felt you needed someone to pray for you.
      
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  Posted by WilliamShipley 9 years, 3 months ago
  
  Putting her hand on your shoulder is intrusive.
  
  Praying for you -- assuming that is what she was actually doing is between her and God. If there is a God. If there isn't a God, well then what she thinks to herself is her own business.
  
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    Posted by richrobinson 9 years, 3 months ago
    
    I thought so as well. Especially when others had asked for prayer and I had not.
    
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      Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 3 months ago
      
      It was intrusive and presumptuous, but unfortunately some religious people feel that being that way is the right thing to do. I absolutely disagree. Faith or the lack of faith is personal and private. I'm sure that she assumed that the fact that you were at church meant you were inviting her in.
      
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[Ask the Gulch] Is it okay to pray for someone if they have not asked you to?

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