The Nuclear Deal: Be Careful What You Wish For

Posted by straightlinelogic 9 years, 5 months ago to Government
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There is little possibility, if the US rejects the agreement, that sanctions will be maintained by the other members of the G5+1, and no possibility they'll be tightened. What then will the US and Israel have to prevent Iran’s development of nuclear weapons? With no ability inside Iran to monitor its activities, other than whatever penetration their intelligence agencies can manage, won’t they be susceptible to false or doctored intelligence and claims that Iran is developing nuclear weapons, even if it is not? If US policymakers believe, rightly or wrongly, that the Iranians are developing nuclear weapons, what option will they have to stop them, other than war? The dominant wing of the Republican party has pressed for a US reordering of the Middle East since before 9/11. Taking out the fundamentalist regime in Iran has been a central goal. By rejecting the agreement, they may get the war with Iran they’ve so long desired.

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SOURCE URL: http://straightlinelogic.com/2015/08/10/the-nuclear-deal-be-careful-what-you-wish-for-by-robert-gore/


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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 5 months ago
    I'm not buying the idea that the Republicans want a war with Iran. And the Dems instigate minor conflicts (Kosovo, Syria, et al) to deflect from domestic scandals. I'm just not buying either major party as being warmongering or expansionist other than to support a one-world government, which is guess is kind of expansionist... Okay, you may be right. ;)

    That being said, I don't think we're going to be able to put off conflict with Iran too much longer. Not because we want it, but because they want it. Iran has long been a proxy to support their idea of religious domination through force and they aren't afraid of the US right now. They actually feel emboldened - especially after this latest proposed nuclear deal of Obama's. I personally don't think this deal does anything to delay them in their plans for world domination. On the contrary, that $150 billion Obama wants to give them does a LOT to help them - and not just in their pursuit for a nuclear bomb. They can use that money to finance ISIS, Hezbollah, and other terrorist groups. They can use it to build up their own weapons programs. They are already in negotiations with Russia and China for military technology including jets and missiles.

    I don't think there is any current way of getting around an eventual military conflict with Iran. The question is how much we want to enable them to engage sooner rather than later and with what technology.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago
    Sounds like they are following the Democrat Party line but what else do you expect from Lap Dogs. Let us never forget the Democrats have started more and lost more wars and killed off more American Serviceman than their counterparts on the right wing of the left.

    The Democrats by their own definition will institute and start a war at any time they think it will further the aims of the party. Vote for it and then join the other side as the mood suits.

    What's scary is the Dumbos used to just give a clear concise mission order then a set of Rules of Engagement then get out of the way. Now I'm not so sure. Unless? Could it be? At the last moment they will pull a donkey and jerk the carpet from under the feet of the real warmongers. Either way America loves a good war as evidenced by their continued voting for a war party. Two of them.

    As for this peace nonsense. Gen human! Ever watch saturday morning cartoons? Looked at the most popular games and computer enhanced images?

    You are right about the Republicans however. they are no longer the parrty they used to be.
    Wrong about the Dems. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and lately Afghanistan for starters, the only discussion is war winning and war losing.





    /Now it looks as if they
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  • Posted by Zero 9 years, 5 months ago
    What exactly is wrong with war on Iran?
    Isn't that THE war that still needs to be fought?

    And Yes, it is OUR job to do it.
    We are threatened daily and ATTACKED on a regular basis.

    Our war machine is undefeatable
    What we lack is the political will to use it and the wisdom to go home when it is over - three weeks later!

    How will we ever get past this new world threat if we don't defeat it?
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  • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
    Yes, and our 'Dear Leader' put us in this position. We should have never opened negotiations until their regime collapsed. It wouldn't have taken much longer.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 5 months ago
    I believe we need to bomb Iran's nuke sites, right now (or better, give Israel the means to take them out). Because that is the only way Iran will not blow Israel right off the map in the next 10-15 years. It will only take 2-3 bombs for Iran to do that, and they certainly intend to.
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  • Posted by vido 9 years, 5 months ago
    And what exactly is the problem with Iran's nuclear program ? The only danger in that region is the massive number of nuclear weapons already maintained by israel, which has always been a rogue state. They threaten not only all the neighboring countries but also european countries, as well as US (where do you think those submarines extorted from the germans are ?), never signed the international non-proliferation treaty and regularly spit on peace initiative, US included.
    Besides, Iran is developing its own nuclear power technology, perfectly aware of the limited availability of oil, and signed the non-proliferation treaty. This whole thing is only a manifestation of israel's own paranoia about not being the sole country to have a nuclear arsenal in the region.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 5 months ago
    Iran is developing nuclear weapons not to use them for destruction, but to blackmail the USA and others into giving them concessions and money. Iran would be crazy to actually use a nuclear weapon on Israel or anyone else. The retaliation would be instant and devastating to Iran.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
      Difficult to say, the challenge isn't whether or not Iran actually used one or not, the challenge is that they are known to openly provide weapons to extremist groups, and if they would eventually provide a nuke to someone. They can't control everyone in their own government. We can't even do that.
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      • Posted by term2 9 years, 5 months ago
        That is true. Might result in nuclear weapons just being used like suicide bombers do, or kamikaze pilots. Definitely would make a mess maybe let the Israels's deal with Iran.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
          We should have done that decades ago... just take the muzzle off and let Israel handle it.
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          • Posted by term2 9 years, 5 months ago
            Its really THEIR deal anyway. They wanted to be forcibly returned the holy lands surrounded by muslims (not really that smart on their part). It should be up to them to deal with these things. We are just enabling what they probably couldnt have had on their own, and as a result the muslims hate US now.
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            • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
              That would be naive to think that the muslim angst against the United States is 'only' that.

              Islamic writings require 'believers' to fight and kill non-believers to convert or kill them - The US is not a Muslim country, is not founded on 'Muslim Ideals' and will never convert or subject to Islam, so we are essentially destined to be at odds with the Muslim world.

              The Muslims don't like our respect of women, which they largely consider to be property. They are offended by our system of laws, right to due process, and right to equal protection under the law. Are we ever going to tolerate Sharia law? No way, we'll never stand for a father murdering his 15 year old daughter for going out on a date or something. We're just too far apart.

              They don't like our business engagements (mostly in petrochemical industry), they don't like our protection of others they would seek to do harm to, etc.

              Iran's problem with us stems from our support of the Shah, which was exiled during the 1979 Islamic Revolution. We supported his corrupt regime to keep access to Iranian oil fields and we enabled his escape from Iran (this was at the same time the US embassy was overrun and 400+ hostages taken until Reagan was sworn in). Reagan's transitional cabinet let them know that if they were not released by time Reagan was sworn-in, his first action would be to order an invasion of Iran using all American means of force (read, we are not afraid of using nukes if we had to).... our issues with the Soviets were non-existent, they were a US client-state, not Soviet. The Muslims hated the USSR worse over the invasion of Afghanistan.

              The Shah died in Egypt in Mid 1980.

              Their hatred of Western Europe stems from the Crusades... the US is closely allied with Europe, and we're not going to trade that friendship to satisfy a bunch of crazies.. so it doesn't really matter what we do with Israel, they have many other reasons to not like us.

              I've been there, I've fought in the Middle East, I'm happy to say the feeling is mutual.

              Qur’an:9:5 - “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
              Qur’an:9:112 “The Believers fight in Allah’s Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.”
              Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”
              Qur’an:8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”
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              • Posted by term2 9 years, 5 months ago
                I agree that islam and the west are based on very different ideas. But I would suggest that the muslims seem to be combative towards those who are combative towards them, and when we specifically send our soldiers to their lands, we are engendering more of their hatred than we need to. They dont seem to attack Switzerland or Canada, They attack USA and USA bases perhaps because we are sending soldiers over there to mess with them. Fighting ISIS? What for? All we do I think is paint targets on our backs to get involved in a Shiite vs Sunni religious war that it none of our business. We empowered the Shiites in Iraq, and now the sunnis are pissed off at what the shiites have done to them since Saddam was overthrown. Its just a mess
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                • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
                  Canada has fewer people than California... why bother? It would take a thermonuclear detonation to kill more than 15 people. And they have had terrorist attacks, the most recent that comes to mind was the attack on Parliament. Just 4 days ago the Canadian Prime Minister proposed a bill banning travel to terrorism-designated areas for any Canadian... so I assume they are worried about upcoming problems.

                  Switzerland... same issue... why? It's like, 5% of the European economy, which is about half the size of the US... why bother? the point of terrorism is to make an impact, not piss off 30 or 40 people a little.

                  You would think India wouldn't be much of a target, but it was, and is... Heck, many Muslim countries are targets.
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                • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
                  Oil. Our economy relies on it, and will for a very long time. You can't tow 40 ton tractor trailers with an EV... you can't move trains with one, you can't move cargo ships with a battery and solar panels, you can't move jumbo jets with them either.. Even if we don't buy oil directly from the Middle East, and we generally don't they drive world oil prices, and that affects us directly.

                  We are also committed to our allies, such as Japan specifically, that rely on the free flow of oil out of the Gulf.

                  I would argue (and I think I am absolutely correct on this), better to continuously engage them in small ways, rather than to let the tension build into a world-wide conflict. I put my money where my mouth is, I was there and fought several times.

                  The good news is, they can't hit the broad side of a barn from the inside with a rifle. That's why they resort to suicide bombers, roadside bombs, etc.
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                  • Posted by term2 9 years, 5 months ago
                    As I remember, Japan was a great ally about 60 years ago. Isnt it time they float free on their own? We seem to be too much into control of the world I think, rather than just concentrating on trading with it.
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                    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 5 months ago
                      There is a couple of flaws in that statement... first, we wrote into their constitutional (Article 9) that war as a means of political goals is outlawed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article..., but also, they have been moving toward amending their constitution with our support and intending to rebuild their armed forces to counter Chinese aggression...

                      http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/0...

                      We more or less enslaved them after World War II... they haven't been able to do much without our consent.
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                      • Posted by term2 9 years, 5 months ago
                        It seems the american government is into enslaving everyone, not just us citizens. Between installing puppet dictators and outright occupations, its doing a good job of controlling as much of the world as it possibly can.
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