FIne = 20 years EPA budget. Close em down and make the employees find real jobs in the private sector. None should be allowed to work in government or in the industries that they previously monitored/maniputlated/fined.
Then if they ever want to start the agency up again, make them file an Environmental Impact Report and show us how they're going to mitigate the resulting damage! Fat chance they can do that!
This is a great idea. Otherwise taxpayers would take the hit if the normal fining process were to be applied here as they do to private entities.
This is actually somewhat hilarious. They are downplaying yellow acidic sludge with lead and arsenic because this time they spilled it. And then they come after modern mining and hit them with penalties via Toxic Release Inventory. They will actually require the mines report that they "released" tons of arsenic or mercury because they moved 40 million tons of overburden that averaged 10 ppb Arsenic - just barely above analytical detection limit.
Yeah, when I was younger I went to work doing industrial maintenance for startup "X" (I signed an NDA, so I won't say who). Their thing was they would take industrial waste solvents and blend them into fuels which would be burned in concrete kilns to produce "klinker". The high temperatures in the kiln broke down the complex chemicals into simple fuel.
You would think the EPA would have loved those guys, they were taking this chemical waste and turning it into something useful, It kept the stuff from being dumped or buried, and reduced the amount of fuel needed to produce concrete.
But, as I recall, they seemed to get hit with thousands in fines every time the EPA came out. Usually it was like ten grand for a barrel with the label facing the wrong way, or something trivial like that. It was never that they had leaks or some problem that would actually harm the environment.
As I said, they were a start up and didn't have all the kinks out of their process. I got really quick at tearing down gear and centrifugal pumps to remove jammed bolts and rivets that came in with the solvents. I also got experience working in explosive and chemical hazard situations. It was a "dirty job" but honest work for a guy with mechanical skills.
So, their margins were not all that great at the time, and I moved on when I got offered more money to work somewhere else. It was kind of as if they were being held back by the EPA, who was doing their damned best to stop them from doing something that actually helped the environment and the country.
If we get to the point of starting a physical Atlantis, I will want to hire you.
When I was a few years old, my dad showed me a draft of the Clean Water Act. As Mobil's first environmental engineer, he was ensuring that the new rules would be written in a way that could actually be complied with. He then taught me that all waste should be incinerated, if possible. Otherwise, your company and you personally will be responsible for it forever, even long after your death.
The biofuels startup that I was a partner and director of chemical engineering felt the same way you did about the EPA. I am for a clean environment, within reason. One of the questions I ask my students in about a month in my freshman chemical engineering class is how much of a premium they are willing to pay for an environmentally friendly fuel. There are usually a couple of environmentalists in there, but they quickly realize that you actually have to pay for a clean environment. Most people aren't willing to pay much for that.
The follow up action by our government will be the same as with all the feds programs - failure will be rewarded with much bigger budgets and even more (deficit financed) funding. The people in charge will get promoted.
While I was reading (also in the article) what amount for a fine the EPA should fine itself, I thought they should not fine themselves at all. Instead, those economic terrorists should all resign and close their nightmare for an agency down forever. (That was before I read the response made by freedomforall).
I notice that this is a mining spill. You know what is probably in that sludge that the media isn't reporting (at least in any coverage I have seen)?
Mercury. Good ole Hg. Silver sludge. Kin folks said, "Jed, move away from there! You'll be out of your mind and in a diaper right quick!" (sorry for the bad humor)...
If I remember right the phrase "mad as a hatter" came about from the use of mercury in hats. I understand lead exposure can give you mental problems as well.
Nothing new there. That's been going on for decades. Seattle, San Francisco to name two. They get fined and pay the fine and we read how it's cheaper than developing or building new sewage treatment. Then follows a major drive against live aboard boat owners while the vast majority of toxic dumping gets a pass. This discussion is very very old and very very non-productive other than ha bla bla bla bla. which is spanish for all talk and no solutions.
this will get me in trouble with the reactor designers in the gulch, but::: the NRC caused Three Mile Island's release of toxic gasses. when I reviewed the news about what happened at ORNL, it was evident that the fact that the containment pressure relief valves could not be manually re-set, or closed, meant that the accumulated gasses inside were leaked after the initial release of clean gasses. . this contaminated release, at relatively low pressure, continued for quite awhile.
the NRC had required that the pressure relief valves Not be manually re-settable. -- j .
To err is human, but to really, totally, irreparably screw things up requires government involvement!
Close em down and make the employees find real jobs in the private sector. None should be allowed to work in government or in the industries that they previously monitored/maniputlated/fined.
This is actually somewhat hilarious. They are downplaying yellow acidic sludge with lead and arsenic because this time they spilled it. And then they come after modern mining and hit them with penalties via Toxic Release Inventory. They will actually require the mines report that they "released" tons of arsenic or mercury because they moved 40 million tons of overburden that averaged 10 ppb Arsenic - just barely above analytical detection limit.
You would think the EPA would have loved those guys, they were taking this chemical waste and turning it into something useful, It kept the stuff from being dumped or buried, and reduced the amount of fuel needed to produce concrete.
But, as I recall, they seemed to get hit with thousands in fines every time the EPA came out. Usually it was like ten grand for a barrel with the label facing the wrong way, or something trivial like that. It was never that they had leaks or some problem that would actually harm the environment.
As I said, they were a start up and didn't have all the kinks out of their process. I got really quick at tearing down gear and centrifugal pumps to remove jammed bolts and rivets that came in with the solvents. I also got experience working in explosive and chemical hazard situations. It was a "dirty job" but honest work for a guy with mechanical skills.
So, their margins were not all that great at the time, and I moved on when I got offered more money to work somewhere else. It was kind of as if they were being held back by the EPA, who was doing their damned best to stop them from doing something that actually helped the environment and the country.
What can you say. Who is John Galt?
When I was a few years old, my dad showed me a draft of the Clean Water Act. As Mobil's first environmental engineer, he was ensuring that the new rules would be written in a way that could actually be complied with. He then taught me that all waste should be incinerated, if possible. Otherwise, your company and you personally will be responsible for it forever, even long after your death.
The biofuels startup that I was a partner and director of chemical engineering felt the same way you did about the EPA. I am for a clean environment, within reason. One of the questions I ask my students in about a month in my freshman chemical engineering class is how much of a premium they are willing to pay for an environmentally friendly fuel. There are usually a couple of environmentalists in there, but they quickly realize that you actually have to pay for a clean environment. Most people aren't willing to pay much for that.
Yes, I'm sure of that.
Certainly.
Harrumph.
Instead, those economic terrorists should all resign and close their nightmare for an agency down forever.
(That was before I read the response made by freedomforall).
Mercury. Good ole Hg. Silver sludge. Kin folks said, "Jed, move away from there! You'll be out of your mind and in a diaper right quick!" (sorry for the bad humor)...
Test data (well, what they released) is here...
http://epaosc.org/sites/11082/files/P...
If I remember right the phrase "mad as a hatter" came about from the use of mercury in hats. I understand lead exposure can give you mental problems as well.
but:::
the NRC caused Three Mile Island's release of toxic gasses.
when I reviewed the news about what happened at ORNL,
it was evident that the fact that the containment pressure
relief valves could not be manually re-set, or closed,
meant that the accumulated gasses inside were leaked
after the initial release of clean gasses. . this contaminated
release, at relatively low pressure, continued for quite awhile.
the NRC had required that the pressure relief valves
Not be manually re-settable. -- j
.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/08/10/...