Hunting with the AR-15

Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 3 months ago to Going Galt
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  • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 3 months ago
    My thoughts on the topic - I have a few rifles... and spend a lot of time at the range. Based on personal experience:

    1.) AR-15, I have a beautiful one that I built from a stripped lower receiver. Stainless steel fluted barrel, American Flag emblazened on the lower receiver, and generally above-milspec parts throughout and a high-grade bolt carrier group. It's actually chambered for 5.56, there are some slight differences and it is important to know that - I have some issues firing .223 with it (occasional jams, etc.). It's dead-on accurate, but loses that beyond about 250 yards (for me) - still tight groups, but you need to be very accurate with a small projectile. I wouldn't recommend it for hunting medium game, but it is excellent as a self-defense & varmint gun. If someone can really clip the ear reliably on a white tail at 500 yards... well.. you are better than I... and the Marine Scout Snipers might be interested in you. My handicap is that my vision isn't very good, so even with eyeglasses and a high powered scope, I can't rely on my physical abilities beyond about 250 yards. I'd never see the thing out there in the first place anyway.

    2.) Remington .308. This is my go-to rifle for medium game hunting, and I'm considering an elk hunt in Montana in a year or so, I'll likely take this albeit with a better scope than I currently have on it.

    3.) Marlin 1895S .44 Mag Lever. I'm not a fan of this thing, I'm actually putting it up for sale on gunbroker soon. I read someone else's favor of these things, but I'm not a fan of a lever action.

    4.) Sturm-Ruger .44 Cal Carbine. This is a decent semi-auto I have, fairly collectible actually, made in 1964. It's very comfortable to carry / aim / fire, but the .44 magnum round is just not ideal for hunting beyond about 50 yards out in my opinion. However, it's the one I carry in the scabbard of my ATV if not the .45 carbine (below) if I'm just out on the trails. This has a simple 4-round tubular magazine and is extremely reliable, but the action can be a little sticky, no matter how much frog lube I put on it. I'm not sure I'd depend on it in the face of a charging bear. For that, realistically, I can send 50 rounds of .45 caliber down range very quickly instead...

    5.) Archangel 7.64. This is the big-game gun I carry/use and is my go-to for most medium game as well. In the economic collapse/apocalypse, this has special favor as well. I started with an arsenal-grade, never-issued Mosin Nagant. I [carefully] removed the original walnut stock, wrapped it and it will be 'arsenal grade' forever. Then inserted (without modification) the Tula Arsenal Factory Mosin-Nagant into after-market Archangel stock kit. This adds a composite stock, adjustable check rest, 9-round magazine. The rifle's stainless steel bolt looks fantastic against the black composite. This is a big gun.. almost 60 inches long I think... I used a butane torch to heat up the silver solder the Russkies used on the iron sites, carefully removed them from the dovetails, and replaced with a dovetail scope mount.. the downside is, that is a ways off from your cheek in destance, however I used a long relief scout-style scope, and quite honestly, I like it to shoot with... so does my son. He can reliably rip a soda can apart at 500 yards. The 7.64 x .56R ammo is ballistically similar to a .308, but it's dirt-cheap... 480 rounds for under $100 in a spam-can. That's less than .223/5.56 for something that can realistically take down big game, is unaffected by a harsh climate, cold, etc.. and you can drop in the mud, pick it up, and it works just fine. The same reasons cave-dwellers around the world prefer an AK to an AR-15.. reliability... For $400, I can literally have 2000 rounds stockpiled. The only downside, it's big. This could be resolved by using the Mosin-Nagant carbine models, but I don't have one and have never seen one that I liked (to buy) for the price. However, it would shave about a foot off in length and use the same round. I guess you could also just cut the barrel, and I see many do that, but not something I'm willing to do with the example I have. Bang for buck though, you can do this for about $250 all-in if you don't care about how the Mosin Nagant looks that you start with. Look on YouRube for 7.64x56R plinking... sending a round through a cinder block... detonating a propane tank at 1000 yards..

    6.) .45 Caliber High Point Carbine. I bought this because it was cheap, decided I LOVED it, and then upgraded it a big. Has a better fore-arm grip, picatinny rails everywhere for accessories (at least 6 of them), has a perfectly reliable magazine, chambered for .45 caliber (interchangeable with a side arm), and I recently put a holographic scope on it that takes nothing more than a glance on target to be dead-center. Here's what I love about it.. the .45 has decent take-down power at range, and a heck of a lot of it at short range.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 3 months ago
      And of course... everyone needs a 12-gauge. I personally like my Mossberg 500... but Remington 870's, etc. are fine.

      My dislikes...

      1.) I don't care for a 30-30 round, never have. I just don't find them as accurate as a .308 for the similar cost/etc. I do have a lot of inherited 30-30 rounds in stock, but my only 30-30 (a pump-action Remington 30-30) was just a piece of crap, and a pump in any rifle is just dumb. If I came across a decent bolt-action some day, maybe this would change, but I'm just not a fan enough to bother with an extra caliber. For a brush-hunting gun, I'd stick with my Ruger .44 Magnum or the .45 caliber carbine, longer range.. I"m using something else anyway.

      2.) I have one other that is absolutely perfect for hunting... the Swiss K-31... This is a 7.5x55 mm cartridge, accurate to well-past 500 meters, has a 6-round magazine and is the most perfectly-crafted firearm I own. Think Swiss watch in a rifle for workmanship. It has a straight-pull bolt action, very strange, but loveable once you use it - just has a ring on the back of it you pull straight back to eject the round and chamber a new one, and its a large ring, designed for use with a mitten on. The downside, you don't find that ammo everywhere, although as any other military surplus, it tends to be pretty cheap. The bolt is 7 parts, no roll pins, etc., just fits together like a glove. Easy to dissassemble and completely clean (as any military rifle is). These in decent condition are about $300.. although you need an offset scope mount.

      3.) I also like the SKS - I know a lot of people don't, but I have a Yugoslav one that is in a modern stock. FIres very accurately (albeit with a smaller round than the Archangel), and in the apocalypse, I think simple and droppable / slammable / drive over it with a pickup truck is more important than the ultimate in engineering and 20 or so tiny little springs to lose (as with an AR-15). I love the AR-15, don't get me wrong, but my concern with it is the availability of parts supply if things went down the tubes.
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      • Posted by Exitstageright 9 years, 3 months ago
        Sco, you are a man after my own heart. I've lugged the 15 thru miles of mud and jungle when I was an Army grunt in the late 60's early 70's, and I swore if I made it out alive I'd buy me an AK. At least those things don't jamb. I have several now btw.
        But the AR in civvy mode these days is pretty decent, especially considering all the different calibers. I have many, from .223, 7.62 x 39, .308, 300 Blackout, and my personal favorite, a Beowulf, with a 2 stage trigger and a twist barrel. A thing of beauty.
        I would NOT shoot a wild hog over 150 lbs with a .223. Most shots at these guys are quick, your in heavy brush, and if I made a bad shot, I don't think I would look too stylish with an AR shoved up my anal orifice by a pissed off Texas Boar. Deer? Sure. They don't normally have a bad attitude, and when they strike a pose you can place your round in the kill zone. I reload a 35 grain pill at 3250 FPS that will turn the lights out with an under ear shot. And loading a 70 grain at 2400 FPS is very accurate with the proper barrel twist, and retains down range energy better. Not as good as my 50 cal Bushmaster loaded with 609 grain grain copper ballistic bullets at 2906 FPS however ;-)). Any hog that ventures 1000 yards from my shooting bench on the ranch is bound to quit breeding......
        Going rogue though, I love my 30 30 lever action octagon barrel brass side plate Henry. I put a scope on it (gasp, yeah, sorry, my contest silhouette days are over at 60, and my once perfect vision taint necessarily so very good any more), and the reload I developed for this thing ain't making me very many brownie points from any game I point it at.
        I guess I have to come out of the closet. Guns, big, little, short or tall, I love em all. Cheaper than mistresses, and they can feed me and keep my ass out of trouble in case of a gangbanger attack.
        My wife even likes em. Guns, that is.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 3 months ago
          Oh my, I'd love to have a Beowulf... had an opportunity to shoot the .308 in an AR-10 format, thought it was a little heavy, but I like the ballistic.

          I'm happy sticking with the .308 semi-auto I use at the moment, though trade that out for a bolt-action at some point (simplicity & ease of cleaning).

          If you do a lot of hog hunting at a distance... you may want to take a look at one of these... http://tracking-point.com
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          • Posted by Exitstageright 9 years, 3 months ago
            Way cool! Thanks for the link sco!

            My hog hunting is pretty much regulated to meat collection. What I can't eat (and I have to admit, the gestation activity of feral hogs is outrunning my appetite) I donate to local needies. I exchange processed meat for services, like fence repair, so it's really not "donation" per se, but an opportunity for a man to feed his family in exchange for work, not welfare. Plus, I teach him something. Kinda like, "give a man a fish, he eats one meal, teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime".

            At my age, (and I was born in 52, turned 60 3 years ago and figured I needed to pass on what I have learned to help others deal with the crap Ayn Rand saw was coming, I focus on smiting the bastards that the yon guns have to deal with.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 3 months ago
    My nephew is a marketing representative for Daniel Defense, one of the premier makers of AR-15 style rifles. He's also an expert marksman and shotgun shooter without peer. He finds the 6.8 mm barreled DD M-4 to be one of the best hunting firearms, using it to take down deer and feral hogs.

    Personally, I like the 300 AAC Blackout version, and I have a DD "Ambush" rifle chambered in that round. The advantage of the 300 Blackout round is that it shares the same ballistic neighborhood of the 7.62 x 39 (AK-47 and SKS) and the 30-30 (lever action rifles), and because it uses the same brass as the 223 round, fits in the standard AR-15 magazines. Sharing the high capacity of the 223 magazines makes the 300 Blackout both a good hunting and defense round.
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  • Posted by GaryL 9 years, 3 months ago
    These discussions have been raging for years! The .223 is a perfect round for killing men that average 150 pounds. A deer here in the NY Catskills rarely goes much over 150 pounds. I hunt with a .308 but I never take a body shot and aim for the neck just so I don't kill and destroy the meat I am hunting for. Shot placement is the key to any and all caliber discussions and the difference comes from the powder and energy behind the projectile coupled with the type of projectile you are using. A .22 LR placed accurately in a deer's ear is just as deadly as a .300 Win Mag that could pass right through and fail to damage vital organs. How far your bullet must travel is the more important discussion in determining caliber to hunt with. My .223 Rem. model 700 can smoke a woodchuck at 500 yards so it will certainly do the job on a deer at that same distance if I place it right.
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  • Posted by SaltyDog 9 years, 3 months ago
    I had a Colt AR-15 HBAR (A1) and a Ruger Mini14 and sold both couple of years ago. I've truthfully never been too impressed with the .223 round. I have an M1 Garand US Navy National Match chambered in .308, and an original M1D with the M84 scope chambered in 30-06. For my money, that's the finest semi auto action on the planet.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 3 months ago
      Both of those are excellent, and better for medium game than the .223. My take from the article is that the AR platform (in .223) can adequately perform many tasks including some overlap with more potent rounds even though those more potent rounds may be a better answer for medium game in particular. Your .308 and 30-06 would be overkill to hunt small game for meat, but great for deer.
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      • Posted by SaltyDog 9 years, 3 months ago
        Personally, I like a .22 mag for small game. Due to the velocity of the round, I find that the .223 does too much damage to the meat. Of course it has been a number of years since I hunted with a .223, and I'm sure they've made some improvements to the round. (I will say that a .223 will make a mess of a coyote, which of course is the desired outcome!). I'm told that it works well on prairie dogs as well.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 3 months ago
          I agree; the .22 mag is excellent for small game. There are so many different rounds available today for .22LR today that optimize the weapon's use for many applications. (e.g.,shot rounds for snakes and sub sonic for varmints in more populated areas)
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          • Posted by SaltyDog 9 years, 3 months ago
            About a week or so ago, someone gave me an old Astra Cub chambered in .22 short. I haven't even seen a .22 short round in 30 years! I cleaned it up and can't wait to head to the range and shoot it!
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago
    The Topper with a selection of barrels was my favorite. Model 94 .30-30 worked fine. It's a brush gun so we just waited always liked to do the hide in the open thing and figured if I really needed more firepower i could take it off of someone else. But the older Topper handled two shotgun and a variety of rifle calibers. I see the new ones are split between shotgun and rifle setups. Had I been in the desert or the plains type of area I'd think different.

    As for the defense mode. Figure out why kind of ammunition the other side has. Then ask one politely to donate one of their weapons. GRIN.
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  • Posted by starznbarz 9 years, 3 months ago
    My meat guns are a restocked/scoped British .303 thats pushing 100 years old and my trusted thutty -thutty for brush work. The .223 hunts better than a sharp stick, the fact is you can carry hundreds of rounds of .22 in a couple pockets, if you need to eat and defend from cover, that would be my choice -if only given one. its been my experience that anything shot in the ear drops.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 9 years, 3 months ago
      I strongly prefer vintage military to sport/hunting rifles... I find the commercial stuff generally difficult to take down and clean if anyone thing other than a bolt action, and ultimately reliability will suffer.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 9 years, 3 months ago
    Most of what I've read (with slight bias, being an NRA Lifer) is that the .223 round is most widely used for prairie dogs and coyotes. I've seen almost no mention of larger game being taken by this round. Even wild pigs are generally shot with .30 caliber and above.

    I'm not a hunter (with the exception of the occasional skunk), but if I were, my Marlin 1894, in .38/.357 would be my gun of choice. I've always loved that rifle, even though I have many others (including three in .223/5.56).
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  • Posted by woodlema 9 years, 3 months ago
    I hunt with my Marlin 444.

    Only need one hunting rifle. I prefer one that can take down a deer or an elephant at 500 yards.

    One shot one kill. and if you hunting deer with it using Hornady Revolution rounds, and hit it straight on in the chest, you kill it and gut it at the same time. :)
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 3 months ago
    I just bought a RRA AR15 and a RRA AR8 (.308) back when it looked like we were a vote away once again. Beautiful rifles! I do plan to hunt with them, although a lot of people complain about the weight of the AR8. I had never shot an AR until them, but it is a wonderfully American rifle, and it has lovely ergonomics (to me).

    In doing the research around ARs, I couldn't believe how many people were hunting with them now. Clearly a 30-06 and .308 are far more powerful and have larger bullets, but when I see people taking a deer with .357 or .44 magnum pistols, it is clear that a .223 is more than adequate a round for deer. It is interesting that a few states require larger calibers than .223 (e.g. MD), and some states require certain muzzle energy for deer hunting ( minimum around the .223 +/-).

    I also bought an M1 Carbine, which also feels wonderful. Have not shot this yet. That thing just feels like part of me when I hold it.

    I've not shot an M1 Garand. My father used on, and qualified sharpshooter with a 1903. He didn't keep his though. When I hold them, they feel a little more awkward. The clip vs magazines kind of puts me off. I have heard the rifles are super rugged though.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 3 months ago
      1903 was Mauser action and the Big Court made the USA pay royalties after WWI. Garand and M14 were a continuation of the long distance shooting mindset. The M1 carbine is really a big pistol and if you think of it that way or as a really long barreled pistol and yes they are comfortable, you'll do just fine. I had one Springfield one of the sniper versions with a star gauge barrel. Excellent weapon especially for hunting but I traded it for the Topper with extra barrels. When you pick up one of the 1903 through M1 series though it's like holding history.
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      • Posted by $ Thoritsu 9 years, 3 months ago
        I've thought of grabbing an M1 and a 1911 for historic reasons. M1's are outrageous now.

        Yep, I know the carbine is a wimpy round. Such a nice feeling gun though. I wish the action could take more energy, and/or they made one for the 44 mag or 357. That would be a nice companion rifle.
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        • Posted by iroseland 9 years, 3 months ago
          I know a guy that carried a M1 Carbine across a bunch of Islands in the Pacific back in the 40's. He had nothing good to say about it. But, he was technically a telephone repairman at the time...
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