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My logic:
I am a semi skilled martial artist, pretty tough and pretty strong, therefore the risk to me is modest
Yes, there is risk to me, BUT
my action would provide confidence and incentive to others (present or learning of it) to also stand up for themselves/others
This supports my objective for the world of people to be self policing in such situations
The benefit far outweighs the risk.
Logically consistent.
The world, especially the US, needs to have many indigenous white blood cells among the population, not just knowledge of a 30 minute response to 911. This reduces fear and provides freedom!
I am 5'7"...and I look like the archetypal, invisible, 'little brown woman'. You would not look twice at me if you passed me in the street - I could be anybody.
I have also done martial arts for >50 years. I would have been in that fight in an instant. I would have done my best to tear the knifeman's arm off, stick his own knife in his own eye, break his head, or perform some other type of socially-needed remediation for his personality.
I have pointed up a lot of responses on this thread. Bravo to the folks who would have acted! For those of you who said that you would have regarded it as philosophically correct not to have acted in defense of the victim, please be aware that if that is the type of society you laud and would construct from your philosophy: I will not be any part of it. That is not a world in which I would live.
My (late) mother, at 80 years of age and in ill health, would have tottered up to that fight and beat the attacker to death with a loaf of French bread. My father would have crawled off his death bed to tackle the knifeman around the ankles.
There are many kinds of strength.
Jan
Agree with your post, Jan, especially the above......excellent.......+ 10
1. Re United 93, the passengers had time to establish enough rapport to collaborate on a response. These people did not.
I would have looked around for eye contact with other ablebodied men to make a silent pact to attack. I have some police background, but I'm over 70 with significant strength limitations like torn rotator cuffs. The last time I intervened in a public physical situation I completely tore my left subscap. That required two surgeries to rebuild my left rotator cuff. I realize I can no longer act like a young, strong cop. And that leads to...
2. What if the average person were armed and trained?. That would change the context in this example and on Flight UA 93.
I refuse to be a passive victim. I am not altruistic, and consider it one of the greatest evils. I value my own life far more than some random thug. The odds of my being on the train empty handed are non-existent, and there is always something at hand. Improvised weapons may not be pretty, but they can be effective, and I don't fancy going against a knife with empty hands. If nothing else, a belt can be a bit of an equalizer.
"This is essentially the opposite of the spirit of United Flight 93—the heroic selflessness that prompted a group of courageous passengers on 9/11 to attack their hijackers, .."
Under similar circumstances, my own self interest would dictate that attack is the best form of action to survive. while I may not succeed, and others might live, the point is for my OWN sake, I would attack knowing the certainty of not attacking is death.
The author never faced the wrong end of a knife in a situation like this.
Getting old with health issues, I'm not not fighting or grappling with any assailant even for my primary reason of self-preservation.
I'll just shoot the SOB.
Old Bama boy is also staying out of sorry places like Washington D.C. and birth state Massachusetts
ing their country, and unwilling to live as slaves.
But I still find the behavior in the other incident
somewhat bizarre, as there were plenty of people
who could have ganged up together on the thug and wrested the knife from him, without very
much risk to themselves.
But I've been there, done that, and got the coffee cup. Most Objectivist have not been tested in such a manner. For that matter, not that many men in general have experienced this type of event. But I've also seen a lot of women step into such events as well without fear, and often times to shame the men there that haven't interfered. Though a brouhaha between two men on the other hand is not to be interfered with.
This is a lethal situation with a determined attacker.
Unless you're packing or trained you have no business wading into that.
Now, if it's your wife or child that's another matter. Of course you'll risk your life for them - lay it down if need be - but not for a stranger.
(Pretty sure this is the 'official' OBJ opinion, too. The Virtue of Selfishness addresses this.)
Of course, if you know what you're doing, that's a different story. Then it's up to your own judgment about how manageable the situation is. Bruce Lee isn't facing the same situation as Joe Guy from accounting.
And yes, taking nothing away from the folks on the plane, but they knew they were dead unless they fought. Not the same situation at all.
One last thing - if you're not afraid of a 4 inch knife - you need to learn more about knives. Try asking the dead man on the floor.
This is primarily another story of the right to self defense having been taken away. Concealed carry, even a BIGGER knife - "Now, That's a Knife!" I think if I were a DC resident (forbid!), I would routinely carry a taser, a blackjack, ANYTHING to take control of a situation. That is what an objectivist would do.
I'll agree that if I could intervene without risking my life and health, then certainly I should. If I were to hear a rape taking place outside my apartment, I should at least call the police.
I recommend reading Ayn Rand's essay "The Ethics of Emergencies", plus David Kelley's book Unrugged Individualism, to get some depth on this issue.
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