Galt's Gulch

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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 11 months ago
    I believe automation is having way more impact on the economy than modest changes in minimum wage. President Obama mentioned it a few years ago giving examples like tyme machines and auto grocery checkout, and critics dismissed it as him defending "his" economy. Many people don't see it happening or mistake the its effects for the effects of foreign trade.

    Regarding modest changes in minimum wage, I think it does not matter. Raising/lower the minimum wage within reason won't make anyone succeed for fail. "The route to reasonable income is to invest in people's skills," he right says.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago
      I am in the efficiency business - which often entails automating operations. One thing that worries me is what will happen when we have automated ourselves to the point where one person (yes, I know that is a wild exaggeration) can provide everything for everybody? What will everyone else do?
      What will a society look like where so little effort can go into providing for everybody? And if production is no longer the means of wealth, what does that mean for society?
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    • Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 11 months ago
      People with skills. Where are those jobs? Skills, this country has the best tool and die. It had the largest printing industry in the world and the largest printing ink companies. This country even made it's own socks. People keep saying we need more skilled workers. There are too few skilled worker jobs left.If they bring the jobs back there are still people that are skilled enough to do those skilled jobs.They only have about 15 years and we will start dying.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 11 months ago
        There's not a fixed supply of jobs. They're always appearing and disappearing based on what people need. The economy is people going out and finding someone's need and fulfilling it in exchange for a fair trade.
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        • Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 11 months ago
          What is a fair trade? Is it making people so poor they can't make purchases. I am gonna sign off.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 11 months ago
            Fair trades is what AS is all about.
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            • Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 11 months ago
              Manipulation of raw material supply is not
              Putting every manufacturer of a certain product out of business in a country is not.
              Complete control over price is not it doesn't matter if it is a government or a company that does it.
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              • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago
                Actually, it does. One is coercive, the other - if it is a fair system - operates in competition with others. Just because a company is the sole provider of an item or service and therefore charges what the "market will bear" doesn't make it unfair. If I develop something that nobody else can provide, and choose to sell it at a price where only 5 people on earth can afford it, doesn't make it unfair.
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                • Posted by rlewellen 10 years, 11 months ago
                  Yes you can sell it for any price. Manipulation of raw material supply is what was happening in Atlas Shrugged that's why Dagnar was sinking ships.
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                  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 11 months ago
                    Which would not be a fair system. In a fair system, market forces will dictate winners and losers. Losers will either go away or innovate so that they can again compete.
                    The bastardization of our current economy is stifling innovation, and thus preventing improvements for all.
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    • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 11 months ago
      Why do businesses turn to automation and foreign outsourcing of labor? Because it's cheaper than highering actual domestic workers.

      Do not confuse the effect with the cause. ;)
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 11 months ago
        I may be missing your point. Why do businesses turn to any supplier for anything? Because it's cheaper/better than all the alternative suppliers. The same is true for consumers.
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        • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 11 months ago
          A minimum wage causes businesses to resort to automation and/or foreign outsourcing.

          You said that "automation is having way more impact on the economy than modest changes in minimum wage," and I'm pointing out that having a minimum wage is a big part of what causes automation in the first place.
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