Check your carry ammo!

Posted by $ WillH 10 years, 10 months ago to Technology
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I found this today during my normal carry ammo rotation. Both are the exact same round from the exact same box. Bullet set back can cause an overpressure situation real quick, and could destroy a weapon or cause great injury. Yes, I will be complaining to Hornady about it, but I thought you all would like to know. Make sure to check and rotate your carry ammo!

The set back round has only been chambered 4 times in a Ruger SR9c


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  • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 10 months ago
    Question - did you weigh the setback? I wonder if it was a compression load or a squib load... Reason I mention...

    I usually buy white box FMJ cheapos for range practice - I got one that was set back about as bad as this one. Took it to the range boss, who told me "Why worry about it - it'll probably go bang". I gave him the "You gotta be f'n kidding me" look, and he then replaced it. Now, I didn't find any more setbacks in the 4 boxes I burned through, but... there was one squib toward the end of the set. Lucky for me it was #2 of two taps... I rather like my face and fingers where they are.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      I just happen to be spending tonight in my reloading room, so I just weighed all 11 setbacks, and they weigh as much as the rest of the box. I pulled one down, and there was powder in it. I really believe the problem is lack of crimp.

      You are braver than I am. I do not train doubletaps with Winchester White Box or Wal-Mart Federal. I only train like that with my own reloaded rounds. That way I know they are 100% reliable.
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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 10 months ago
    You all sound way more experienced than I am. I'm wondering if I can get some advice. I have a S&W 686 plus 357 mag for home protection. I have it loaded with Hornaday Critical Defense 125 gr FTX. Will time decrease its effectiveness? Should I cycle it at the range and buy a new box after a period of time? Thanks.
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    • Posted by Retired24-navy 10 years, 10 months ago
      I was a gunners mate on several ships, and it was our directive not to keep fixed ammo more than 12 months. I rotate my ammo more often as I go to the range usually monthly and always use the oldest ammo first. Most of the modern ammo can be safely stored for a couple of years. The old black powder ammo starts to degrade within 12 months. Hope this helps.
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 10 years, 10 months ago
        Yes it does. Thanks
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        • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
          I have bought an shot surplus ammo dated 20+ years old. Mil sup smokeless powder ammo is generally sealed at both primers and bullet seams and has a much greater life span. I dot not worry about shooting good ammo that's got a production date a couple years out. BUT not the white box stuff and not somebodies basement reloads sold at a gunshow in a baggy. You have to wonder, if their best effort is only good enough for a Ziploc, is it good enough for my $1000 handgun or $3500 rifle? I don't think so.

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          • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
            That makes perfect sense, and also brings up another point. No one should ever purchase ammo in a baggie. Locally we had a Ruger P95 blow up at a range while firing that stuff. No doubt it was crappy handloads passed off as factory ammo. One should only fire properly labeled factory ammo, your own reloads, or reloads of someone you trust. Something is seriously wrong when a round is so strong it blows up a Ruger.
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  • Posted by IamTheBeav 10 years, 10 months ago
    I am curious as to why you've chosen Hornady XTP as your carry ammo in the first place. For self defense, I want the nastiest thing I can find to put in my gun, and the Hornady stuff doesn't even come close, in my opinion. For expansion, penetration, weight retention, and overall general "you want aboslutely no piece of this action"ness, the only two rounds I would consider are the Ranger SXTs and the Federal HSTs, with the Federals being the preferred round of the 2 and the SXTs being an acceptable and more readily available substitute.

    My understanding is that those massive government .40 caliber ammo purchases were the Federal HSTs, and for good reason.

    There are several websites comparing the performance of all of the main HP rounds out there as well as YouTube videos showing gelatin and water tests. Why bother with an also ran like the Hornady round? There are plenty of others that have proven to perform as well and a few that have truly distinguished themselves as a better option. Don't get me wrong, the Hornady will work, but it isn't the best choice by a long shot.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      No, it's not, but when I was due to replace my Ranger SXT's last time these were the only things I could find. I bought two boxes and ran the first one. This one will be replaced soon.

      It did not expect these to perform like the SXT, but I also did not expect this either as Hornady is supposed to be pretty good bang for the buck.
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      • Posted by IamTheBeav 10 years, 10 months ago
        I am also curious about something else you said, and I swear I am asking this as an honest "I really want to learn/know why" question. Why would you feel the need to keep fresh ammo in your gun? What difference does it make in terms of the round working or not?

        No doubt I am talking out of my rear end on this one as I am probably very ignorant on the subject, but the only three conceivable things that I can think of that would effect performance are as follows. Please keep in mind that when you get done laughing, these are strictly guesses.

        1. The powder settling/compacting over time.
        2. Maybe freshness actually does count with powder/primers.
        3. Moisture getting into the round to defeat the powder's effectiveness.

        Are any of these factors into why you would even care about ammo being fresh or not? Is there something else I am not thinking about?

        The Ranger SXTs in my FNP-9 have been sitting on my bedside table for a few years now. the only time they come out are when I go to the range to shoot some cheap FMJ factory stuff or lately my own cast reloads. I use a 124 gr, RN tumble lubed design from Lee in a six cavity mold, FWIW, and they shoot pretty decent for goofing around at the range. Helluva lot cheaper too.
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        • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
          As evlwhtguy said primer contamination is a possibility, but I am not trying to keep "fresh" ammo per say, rather I do not want to chamber the same round over and over again as the primer can be damaged. It's a low possibility, but if I were to need to use my firearm to defend myself and/or my family the last thing I would want to hear is click when I pull the trigger.
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        • Posted by evlwhtguy 10 years, 10 months ago
          The primer can become contaminated over time, especially if you use WD40 in the firearms storage area. If the primer becomes contaminated it wont work. In a revolver this is not the end of the world as you just pull the trigger again, but in an automatic, it is a big problem. I suspect the Hornady custom ammo you have is loaded in small lots and does not have the quality control checks that mass produced ammo has.
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          • Posted by IamTheBeav 10 years, 10 months ago
            That definitely makes me feel better. I don't keep or use any of those type of lubricants anywhere near where I keep my gun. Also, I have chosen to keep the magazine in the gun loaded, but I keep the chamber empty as there is no safety on an FNP-9. Lastly, if a round is chambered and will not fire, the FNP-9 does have an external hammer and will operate in double action or single action mode. In that respect, I suppose it could act similarly to a revolver, whether I pull the hammer back myself or simply deal with the longer DA trigger pull.
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            • Posted by evlwhtguy 10 years, 10 months ago
              Bad primers seldom work when hit a second time. That is why a revolver is the gold standard for reliability since on the second trigger pull you have an entirely new cartridge. Military ammunition has a varnish seal on both the primer and the bullet to protect against contamination. You can see the varnish as it is usually red or green. It is certainly a good idea to rotate carry ammo, you should be practicing on a regular basis so a new box every year is really no big deal. Just use the old ammo for practice.
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
    Another thought, possibly the bullet is sticking out longer than it should be and as it is being forced into the chamber when you drop the slide, the bullet is being set back as it's pushed into the forcing cone at the front of the chamber. I don't see any evidence that the cartridges are crimped. That would allow the bullet to be pressed back.

    I know setback can cause pressure to jump very quickly and should never be ignored. But remember that a 9mm is not a magnum and as long as you are talking .020", you are not in huge danger. IF you find it is being caused by bullet setback from the forcing cone, none at all. In my opinion.

    In my rifles that have huge amounts of powder (and pressures) I actually determine the overall dimension of a round by partially setting a bullet in a empty test casing, and force the bolt closed, and measure how far the bullet was shoved back by the forcing cone.

    For a precision rifle, the least amount of "void" you have between the bullet and the cone, the better is for accuracy. No more than .003" in either of my Savage 110BA's. A bit looser in most others.

    This does no work for semiauto guns of any type. Too loose all over.
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      Yeah, it looks like they skipped the crimp operation when they made these. I will see what they have to say.

      I shoot a lot of hardcast lead, so I have measured my chamber, and these should not have touched the rifling, so this should not have caused the issue.

      I reload rifle round the same way you do, which is why my .308 is set below the cannelure of the 150 grain FMJ. They clear the rifling by an average of .004.
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      • Posted by evlwhtguy 10 years, 10 months ago
        Getting the bullet jump correct on a rifle cartridge is the main reason good handloaded ammo is more accurate than factory. The Factory sets the bullet back a little further than is best because the cartridge is use in who knows what sort of rifle. The last thing the factory wants is to have a rifle blow up and having the bullet forced in to the end of the rifling in the forcing cone area is a way to get chamber pressures higher. If you are loading for a specific rifle you can get it set way out there but just short of the rifling. This makes for the shortest bullet jump and the best accuracy. To find the back extent of the rifling you set a bullet out a little too far and smoke the bullet with a sight blacking carbide lamp. You can really see the forcing cone [end of the rifling] that way. You then wipe the bullet off and re-seat a little lower until you get the seating die just right, which you can see when you put the smoked bullet in and you don't get rifling marks on it. I figure this alone is worth at a minimum .3 to .5 minutes of the angle in accuracy
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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 10 months ago
    Have you checked what is the correct dimension? To me, it looks like the longer cartridges have the bullets out too far. I'd check to see if they feed correctly. I normally load my cartridges to seat bullets to where the bullet radius is just above the rim of the brass.

    And remember that hollow points and Round Nose are different lengths. As I recall, the suggested overall length for my 115gn HP is 1.130".

    I'll check tomorrow and get back if it's different.

    I also rotate my ammo, but by shooting my carry piece at least 4 times a month. That's minimum. Since we are very near our range, that's easy for us.

    How old is that box of ammo?
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 10 months ago
    Why is that round being chambered over and over?
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    • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
      I am an active shooter, so I practice with my daily carry at least 4 times a month. This means that I load and unload my carry ammo. Each round that is in the chamber goes to the bottom of the mag. Each round has been chambered 4 times as I have been to the range that many times in the last 6 months.
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      • Posted by jsw225 10 years, 10 months ago
        A while back there was a case about a police officer who went to use his gun, and the bullet didn't fire. He racked the slide and the next one was fine. They figured out that he had been loading and unloading the same bullet every day for months, to the point where it wouldn't fire anymore. While that case is an extreme one, if you're starting to notice a bullet being seated too deeply, chances are you're doing the same thing. To the point where the bullet won't fire? Probably not. But if it makes you wonder if the bullet's going to go off, then you should probably cycle them less, or shoot off all the ones you have been cycling more often.
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        • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
          I have read about that case. He was pulling the mag and unloading the same round every evening due to having children in the house and no gun safe. Every morning he re chambered the round and put the mag in. Over time the primer was damaged and did not go off. Luckily he did not die from his mistake.

          No, this is not the case with mine. I have chambered this round only four times as I only unload and reload my carry ammo when I go to the range or clean the gun afterwards. Each round that is in the chamber is moved to the bottom of the mag and a fresh round is chambered. I allow 4 total revolutions for a total of 44 unload and reload cycles before the ammo is shot and replaced.
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          • Posted by m082844 10 years, 10 months ago
            Try dropping a round in the chamber and releasing the slide, then insert the magazine.

            It works for me, and reduces the risk you're talking about by a lot (maybe to zero).
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            • Posted by $ 10 years, 10 months ago
              It normally does, however these rounds appear to have made it passed Hornady's QC without being crimped. I have sent the information off to them and will post what they have to say.
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