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Socialism, as understood by college kids

Posted by Esteban 10 years, 11 months ago to Culture
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The other night I observed a discussion on the virtues of Socialism in my college class--oddly in an art history course. Students all over the room spoke of Socialism as though it was no more than voluntary sharing of resources between productive people. When I began to ask those uncomfortable questions--who decides what "fair" is, why should a single man work 12 hours for $10 and a single mother work 2 hours for $100, and what happens if you want a digital camera but somebody else *needs* one to feel equal to you... the discussion broke down into chaos.

Young people in college seem to have no idea what actually happens when everyone is FORCED to share.


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    Posted by airfredd22 10 years, 11 months ago
    Re: Esteban,

    There is a simple explanation as to why college students don't know the answer to what socialism is. They are simply not taught the truth by their high school teachers and certainly not by their college professors.

    Unfortunately, we have become a lazy society that believes history began yesterday. There is no greater truth then the quote by George Santayana, "Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it."

    Therein lies the root of the evil of socialism and indeed communism that has crept into our education system. I was born in East Germany in 1948 and as a boy experienced both socialism and communism first hand. I have never forgotten when the communist government of East Germany confiscated my parents business and charged my father for political conspiracy for refusing to grant permission for the government to do so. Perhaps that's why I admire Hank Readen's speech before the court so much. Truer words as his written by Ayn Rand do not exist.

    Any caring parent must, and I emphasize must, teach their children the truth about these twin scourges, socialism and communism, upon our nation. We are truly the shining light on the hill, that is as long as we don't allow the present administration to darken that light in their progressive zeal to eliminate the very freedoms that our founding fathers fought to grant unto their descendants.

    To paraphrase Charles E. Weller, “Now is the time for all men to come to the aid of their country,” may I add, before it's too late.

    Fred Speckmann
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    Posted by EconomicFreedom 10 years, 11 months ago
    A gentle, old-fashioned "object lesson" might teach these students something about the realities of socialism.

    Let the teacher tell them that going forward, points well be deducted from those students who studied hard and earned A's on their exams, and redistributed to those students who earned B's, C's, and D's, in order to narrow the "grade gap" and achieve "grade equality." I'm not talking about grading on a curve (which leaves the "A" students alone), but an actual redistribution of grade points.

    Let's see what sort of incentive that provides to the "A" students to continue working for their own achievement, and what sort of incentive it provides to lesser achievers to try to improve their performance.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 11 months ago
    Because the idea of everyone having an equal existence makes them feeeeeeel so good. They don't care what the logistics would look like...they just want what they want because they want to feeeeeel good. (And superior too, I might add). Of course the discussion broke down into chaos after you shed light on their idiotic ideas...the only other way it could've gone is into a reasonable conversation and then they'd have to admit a few things they don't want to admit...and their bubble would burst in the process. Can't have that. Stick to the utopian script!
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  • Posted by seanfatzinger 10 years, 11 months ago
    This brings to mind 2 points - first, parents are responsible for the shaping of their children no matter what sort of schooling you send them to; if parents weren't passively unaware, the evil looting strain would not be so pervasive. Second, due to the nature of my workforce , having to explain the new ACA to my employees step by step has created a lot of converts: here is our insurance plan " I can't afford that " well, here is the link to the exchange "I can't afford that either - it's worse" here is the fine you'll pay "what?! I get fined?! Who says you can fine me for not buying something I don't want?!" Real life would change the art class philosophy real quick
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 10 years, 11 months ago
    There's a Communist/Socialist club at the university I attend, and the other day I decided to go sit in on one of their meetings just for kicks, and some of the stuff they said was incredibly idiotic. They tried to claim responsibility for building the roads and the college, and then said that they weren't benefiting from the college, which was unfair because they had supposedly built it. Now of course I thought that was an incredibly stupid thing to say. Apparently they think that they can just arbitrarily claim responsibility for building anything, and an eduction isn't considered a benefit.

    What a bunch of lunatics...
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    • Posted by $ Genez 10 years, 11 months ago
      Sounds exactly like Reardens brother. claiming society had helped get rearden where he was and that all deserved benefit from his labor. Also sounds like our "beloved leader" and his "you didn't build that" rhetoric. I work for a mid size trucking company that was started by 1 man with a couple of friends/partners. We now have over 800 trucks on the road and employ about 1000 or so people. the company would not exist if it werent for the drive and determination of the founder and now, his sons... Unfortunately sounds like these socialist clowns would try to claim responsibility for his success.
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  • Posted by mminnick 10 years, 11 months ago
    There is a really entertaining book by George Orwell explaining socialism, how it works and how it ends. I'm not talking about 1984, I'm talking about Animal Farm. The takeover of the farm (read society), the establishment of the rules painted on the barn wall, the establishment of the leaders, the slow (or not so slow) changing of the rules and the final merging of the leaders with the very people they overthought.
    When I first read this book I thought cute but how silly. This was when I was a Juniior in high school. Even then something about it bothered me. I read and reread the book many times. about the 5th time it started to dawn on nme that it was describing a system of government, a philosophy that was at the heart of communism and a truly anti-freedom, anti-individual view of the world.
    About this time I read The Fountain head and Atlas Shrugged. What a life saving pair of books.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 10 years, 11 months ago
    I had a interesting conversation with a 23 year old yesterday that said "Our country is going to hell and I blame my generation." I was surprised by this. I picked up a paperback of Atlas which I will be giving to him on monday. He is on verge of understand and ready to hear the message.

    There is hope with them, but we have to help those that want to see, to see it.
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  • Posted by m082844 10 years, 11 months ago
    I think they're surrounded by the idea that socialism is the idea most of their life, and had no reason to question it. And they are at an ideal stage of their life so they think it can be practical; they try to make it work. Since the schools system made sure they couldn't distinguish clear solid thinking from foggy thinking, I'm sure they thought they were succeeding until you inturupted the process by forcing the fog to take shape. Good work!
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  • Posted by $ minniepuck 10 years, 11 months ago
    An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

    The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment on socialism". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an “A”.

    After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a “B”. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

    As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little. The second test average was a “D”! No one was happy.

    When the 3rd test rolled around, the new average was an “F”.

    As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

    To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

    Human nature will always cause socialism's style of government to fail because the world has producers and non-producers (makers and takers).

    --

    Your post reminded me of the above story. It's been around the internet for years where there are variations of it. Whether it actually happened anywhere or not, who knows. It's still a good illustration. I would love to have it implemented in a real classroom and see the students' reactions. Teachers are always looking for memorable ways to teach a lesson, no?
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  • Posted by Windblownranch 10 years, 11 months ago
    College students for the most part have not had to make their way in the world and their expressions of political systems are based more upon ideals rather than experience. Experience will change a great deal of their views over time. If chaos was the result of a challenged conversation, imagine the chaos in their lives when the world challenges them with survival. Imagine when they have to shoulder the burden do socialized medicine and a debt that is overwhelming? Views do and will change based upon circumstances. The problem is that they don't yet fully understand their circumstance. Everybody has that moment when they realize Santa is not real! Some will accept it and others will refuse to accept it. We need to focus on those that can and will embrace reality and leave the chaff to argue amongst themselves.
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  • Posted by egoistpaul 10 years, 11 months ago
    Young people in college typically are not interested in politics. Those who are interested usually don't know much about different political systems and their consequences.

    Most of them have not started to work in a real office, so talking about how much tax is forced to pay in a socialist system does not mean anything because they do not feel the pain when they see in front of them that the money they earn are looted.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 11 months ago
    Socialism is great as long as you are a moocher and can live off what others' produce. If you're a producer, however, socialism quickly loses all glamour and the pig shines clearly through the lipstick.

    For a great primer on the costs of socialism/communism, I would direct everyone to a simple historical account of the Caucus region right after Stalin took over. He kicked out all the farmers and sent them to prison camps and gave control of the farms to his political buddies who had no clue what they were doing. What followed was mass starvation as the region produced less than 1/10th of what it had only the years before.

    Socialism is nothing more than political elitism of a different sort - a social caste system whereby everyone suffers and only the connected few live the life of luxury. What is further despotic is that these systems are always enforced by the secret police.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 11 months ago
    I agree with Sean when he says "Real life would change the art class philosophy..." I think that the actual problem is that our affluence (a good thing) acts as a buffer between ourselves and reality and allows the growth of detrimental philosophies (an unwise thing). The only massive solution I can think of to this problem is if something happens (let's make it a hurtling asteroid) destroys the fabric of our civilization enough to put everyone back in touch with real life.

    I do not consider this a good solution...

    Jan
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  • Posted by TexanSolar 10 years, 11 months ago
    Revisionist history is taught in schools.
    Liberals control education, as they also control of most of the media. The conspiracy is real and it is no secret.
    I wonder who our government works for? Obama is their puppet.
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    • Posted by $ Snezzy 10 years, 11 months ago
      Anyone who has studied the required curriculum for becoming teacher in American public schools has heard of John Dewey (1859-1952), who is revered among educationalists as a god, as "the father of American education". His ideas include, among other things, the suppression of independence and individualism, and the substitution of "interdependence" instead. John Dewey was a Fabian. Indeed, he was the president of the American Fabian Society. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/blogge...

      The Fabian plan was "evolution" into socialism, rather than Communist "revolution," and it has been successful in turning the US from a nation of "difficult" and independence-minded individuals into a country containing a large and rather uniform group who will do as they are told by their betters.

      Fabian ideas, put forth as "progressive" in America (who could oppose progress?), have succeeded in our colleges in most of the liberal arts and in journalism, but not so well in the sciences. A current exception is "climate science" which is currently showing its anti-scientific political foundation as it crumbles in the face of evidence. (Climate Science failure is well covered here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/ .)

      The progressives have for a long time chosen the subjects of debate. Want to talk about American virtues? You'll suddenly find the discussion has turned to where you must defend America's use of slavery. Want to study the thoughts of America's Founding Fathers? You'll be pressed into having to talk about Sally Hemmings. Want to hold America together? The agenda becomes how best to take it apart.

      Ayn Rand was once asked how she, an immigrant, could lecture Americans on what it meant to be an American. She replied, "I chose to be an American. What have you done, besides being born here?"
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
        "She replied, "I chose to be an American. What have you done, besides being born here?""

        "I chose to let you in."

        In rebuttal to that statement, I point at Barack Hussein Obama.
        He was born here, allegedly. Like her, he was raised somewhere else.
        Exactly what about that qualified either of them to judge Americans?

        Or, since I'm feeling grouchy, let's put this in maph terms:

        "Chaz", nee Chastity, Bono enters a... make it a strip joint, or a football locker room, whatever; some masculine place, and begins lecturing those there on what it is to be a man. When challenged on her authority to judge manhood, she replies, "I chose to be a man, what have you done besides being born one?"
        To which the obvious reply is, "I've lived as one since birth." Or more succinctly, "I am... what you aspired to become".

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        • Posted by $ Snezzy 10 years, 11 months ago
          Suddenly we seem to have moved from the realm of ideas (WHY would someone choose to be an American?) to the circumstances of physical origin. I have no need to go there.

          Personally, having seen her in action, having seen her very sharp MIND in action, I choose Rand over the Teleprompter.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 11 months ago
    When I was in the 11th grade -- a very long time ago, the "Social Studies" teacher defined Socialism as the "cutting off of the top and bottom of the economic ladder." Even then, in my teen-age ignorance, I realized that this couldn't be the correct definition. There had to be more to it than that. At the time, I was ill-equipped to argue with her, and I had already been a visitor to the principle on a few instances.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 11 months ago
      Its the same lie taught to high school students today... and because no one in the class *has* the ammo to fight it with rational questions and discussion, it is promulgated as undeniable fact, to which the students must, as given them by an authority, subscribe.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 11 months ago
        Some time ago, when my grandkids were still children, I glanced through their 11th grade history book. There was just one paragraph on Lincoln and a description of the Civil War so distorted that it made me want to tear up the book and stomp on the pages. You are so right in your response. No wonder home schooling is growing at a rapid rate. It's not only the violence, and drug use, but the teaching as well.
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