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Attending Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral

Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 5 months ago to Culture
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This was from a friend of mine

So on Sunday as a gesture to Mary Ellen who is nominally Catholic, and to Cory we attended mass at the magnificent (usually) St. Patrick's cathedral.

Mass was poorly attended and the entire of the interior of the cathedral was a huge mass of scaffolding. Here is symbolic point number 1: the work is presumably being done to repair the crumbling structure of the church building having not been maintained for many decades. I.e., I don't think they are doing this to create some incredible new vision of the cathedral. The sermon was very hard to follow due to the poor sound system and the priest was at the altar that seemed to be a mile away. The cathedral was slightly cool and dark and it was bright and hot outside. Probably close to the experience by a typical medieval mass goer. Believe it or not the sermon as best as I could make out was that we shouldn't concentrate on the seen, but that would should concentrate on the unseen and the life hereafter. That's what really counts. There were two collections and so I dropped a 20 for each collection. Here is the kicker - get ready for it. I didn't feel anything particularly one way or the other and as we sauntered out the bright sunlight hit me full force and what did I see right in front of me in all of its glory? The statue of Atlas boom right in front of me! I thought that that was so shocking and such a contrast to the whole mass experience that I just had to share it with you. I will leave it to you to connect the dots and write an essay about it and let me know what it all means if you ever feel like it.



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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 9 years, 5 months ago
    Sense of life vs sense of after death. What a startling contrast.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
      hear hear. I was raised catholic but the few times I have been in a church, especially a catholic church, as an adult I am always struck at how Dark Ages the whole thing is.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 5 months ago
        I was also raised a Catholic. I'm currently sort of a Methodist but I won't go into all that.
        If you want to see Medieval, attend a Catholic funeral mass, which is not as extremely ritualistic as I recall a regular daily Catholic mass to be.
        I with family attended my father's Catholic funeral this month after his body had to be transported from another state to Alabama to be buried beside my mother.
        Among those viewing the mass were my adopted daughter and her brand new husband both with Protestant childhood backgrounds.
        My son had seen my mother's funeral mass but I had to remind him that the "smelly smoking stuff" was called incense.
        Off and on, the swings of an incense burner was paraded up and down and also so were the sprinkles of holy water.
        When my dad's coffin received a healthy walk-around sprinkle of holy water, I could not help but think, "That should keep away the evil spirits after Dad's been dead a whole week."
        Guess modern Catholics would just call that a purification rite and say no more.
        After the mass, I remarked to my daughter and her husband, "Bet you never saw anything like that."
        The hubby just somberly nodded and nicely asked if they could skip the graveside service.
        I graciously told them that everything was cool. "Be safe."
        Both my parents now lie side-by-side after receiving the all the Catholic rituals and rites they wanted. That's all that matters.
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  • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 5 months ago
    I recognize the situation and the experience.
    Friendships are valuable and to support our friends we join them in rituals they find important tho' are without meaning to us. This should be seen only for what it is, friendship and not support of the ideology behind the ritual.
    There are two religious events I have attended in recent years, one was unpleasant from start to finish, in the other I felt ok at the time but looking back, I have some disquiet.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 5 months ago
    I love, love the description. just a couple of weeks ago I was admiring my signed poster with that very sculpture. how beautiful. how important a symbol
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  • Posted by greenberet 9 years, 5 months ago
    Whenever I go to NYC I always make that statue a required stop. It's as good a reminder as a $ sign of Atlas Shrugged. Go down into the plaza of Rockefeller center and you'll see a great statue of Prometheus. In downtown Walnut Creek California you'll see a large gold head statue with water bubbling out the top ergo The Fountainhead. We're all out there-just keep an eye out for the signs
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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 9 years, 5 months ago
    So he pitched in $40 in aupport of a doctrine of benightedness, superstition and mind-killing obedience. Or was it to help the building fund to repair a specimen of antique architecture that is a monument to the grandeur to which humans aspire, though sadly misdirected at an imaginary entity rather than to their own magnificent potential?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
      I don't know. I know he was raised catholic and when he went through a divorce over a decade ago he revisited religion, but I think he has decided to pass.

      I would not give them a dime. It was the story of Galileo that caused me at a young age to say no-way to the christianity and religion.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago
      i do much the same when I buy power ball and refer to it as my fair share of that States taxes. All both of them twice a year. I recall the cost of the doors of that church when redone the last time were $50,000.00. They had two donation deals going. One for the doors and one for hungry indigents. Guess which one reeached it's goal first.
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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
    Dale, I presume there's no need to thank your friend for supporting the child rape centers of America? Or the totally wacko environmentalist/communist Pope - the one that called weapons manufacturers (and, by extension, users) - non-Christians? Which must include his own Swiss Guard? Or perhaps he prefers the methods and goals of his predecessor, Pius XI, who delivered the Chancellorship to Hitler? I know, I’m harsh on the pious and humble Catholics – but shouldn’t they consider whom and what they are supporting?
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    • Posted by Lucky 9 years, 5 months ago
      I agree. Still remember that the Catholic Church is not as monolithic as it would like to be.
      ' Given that poorly defined and enforced property rights lie at the heart of so many environmental problems, especially in poor countries, this whole area is a big omission from this encyclical. ' from
      http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commenta...
      The UK's Lord Monckton, a real climate expert, is a staunch Catholic, I wonder if he will comment.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
        So the Pope and the Church are drumming the beat with a "call for moral restraint by businesses and individuals." Perhaps starting with themselves would be a good beginning? Like restraining the priests when they see a little boy; like restraining the Vatican's ever growing riches while they condemn poverty; like restraining the priests' perversions while they preach morality (has the Vatican stoped giving absolutions for having sex with one's mother or sister for a set fee? - or, sorry, they did stop that a while back, but do continue the practice for lesser perversions...). The next Pope the conclave elects should be Obama - this is one area that he definately has experience in and is uniquely qualified for this job.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
      Hear hear - I can't understand why he did that. However, he was raised catholic and he might have thought he was supporting the reconstruction effort.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
        The world is being wrapped in Stupidity. As in the New Dark Age. The question that I often wonder about, when I hear such revelations as the one from the Pope, or the Democratic strategist who recently said Thank God that the Charleston victims were not armed or it would have been worse - are they themselves incredibly stupid, do they believe that their audience is stupid, or both?
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 5 months ago
    There is a dramatic dichotomy between pagan bicameral fear and slavery, living for an unknown afterlife; (instilled by catholic tyranny throughout the ages and the ever widening chasm between it and the actual teachings.) and the moral empowerment's of being the very best you can be, creating values for self and others naturally as a conscious human being; Living life to it's fullest in appreciation of all that's been created; however that happened and what ever it was that created it. After reading Julian Jaynes on the breakdown of the bicameral mind, (which produced awareness of one's self) You begin to understand biblical history and that Jesus was actually trying guide us in that process while speaking in bicameral terms hoping it would be understood by the transitioning bicameral mind. I think you'd all be shocked to find that he actually taught 'Rational self Interest', free market principals and local government starting with the family unit. None of which was the least bit mystical.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
      Actually, the only facts that we have is that Jesus lived and talked about certain subjects. As to what exactly he did say, we can only guess based on recollections written down decades after his death and changed over the centuries, often purposefully.
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 5 months ago
    A Galt's Gulcher going to Catholic Mass and con-
    tributing $20? So what did you expect to experi-
    ence? Exaltation?--I am aware that all Galt's Gul-
    chers are not required to be Objectivists, but I do
    think it is still rather odd.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
      He is not a gulcher. But he is a Rand fan. I remember going into some churches for friends' of K who got married (none of my friends, well friend, got married in a church). I did it because of K, not because I was interested and I had a hard time not commenting the whole time.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 5 months ago
    An interesting poster to have participated in the altruistic throes of what must be the wealthiest organization in the world. But to then see the pagan Titan, Atlas as one departs the gloomy, medieval, gilded but crumbling tatters of the past, and be reminded of a struggling present and a possible future in one uninvited vision.

    I've only been in a Catholic church twice in my adult life, once for a funeral, and once at the old Indian one south of Tucson and I can well remember the oppressive feeling of weight and doom and gloom that was present throughout those brief visits. In one way I was reminded of a carnival ride with all the decoration, the back ground of mystery for the laity behind the altar, and the acolytes in their robes with magic water and smoke. But it was also apparent that the parishioners gathered from the poor were expected to give, both financially (even if just pennys) and personally--to accept their life as it was with the word pictures drawn by the priests as hope and eventual payment for sacrifice of today's life.

    The reasons one might find that entices entrance to the mysteries and magic contained within are really unimportant, compared to the revelation seen when returning to the light of the day and reality of individual achievement.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
      We went into an old mission church in Mexico and while the building was definitely catholic, the structure was more primitive than a catholic church in the US and not decorated in as depressing a manner.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 5 months ago
    As a 'teen, I had two Catholic friends. Both Irish, and both pre-alcoholics. They thought it would be fun if I went to confession with them. So I did. Not being Catholic, everything was new and odd to me. I knew just enough about the religion to be ignorant. Behaind a dais, I guess it was the altar was a very large sculpture in what appeared to be wood, of this poor fellow nailed to a cross with a large wound in his side. There was lots of blood, on his head, wrists, side, and ankles. Frankly, it scared the hell out of me, but I guess that what what it was supposed to do. Long story short, they talked me into taking conession. They clued me in on the ritual, and not without a little trepidation I entered the confessional. "Forgive me father...." I decided to tell the priest everything. He was silent for a long while. I think if it was up to him, I'd still be saying Hail Marys and Our Fathers. Later they told me he was known at St. Cecilia's as the "Hell Priest" for his strictness.
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    • Posted by gaiagal 9 years, 5 months ago
      I was raised Catholic and was a first grader when we began to attend the parish of American Martyrs. The name alone should be indicative of what the sculptures, stained glass and figurines depicted. I had nightmares for years. This is what happened to the folk who tried to do good - all I could think of was how could I possibly avoid even greater punishment when it seemed as if I was always breaking one rule or another - such as "Don't fight with your sister." Such were the thoughts of a first-grader.
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  • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 5 months ago
    I hear you about the lack of feeling from the Mass. Since Vatican II, the experience of Mass in this country has gone very much downhill.
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  • Posted by radical 9 years, 5 months ago
    I find it to be a friend of a liberal since his or her beliefs threaten my freedom, privacy, and prosperity.
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  • -2
    Posted by Annetteburriello 9 years, 5 months ago
    Jesus was the the true and real atlas who took on the sins of the world and then killed those sins on the cross.
    From a true Catholic
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    • Posted by VetteGuy 9 years, 5 months ago
      Hi AB,
      Most here at the Gulch are not going to share your faith, so that's something to be aware of.

      More directly in response to your post, the point of the AS book is that Atlas should SHRUG OFF the world. As Galt, Rearden and Mulligan found in the book (and I'm sure many here in the virtual Gulch have also experienced) the moochers of the world will pile on and keep piling on, and nothing short of your total sacrifice is sufficient.

      Those in the Gulch (both Virtual and literary) have recognized that a need on the moochers part does not necessarily create an obligation on the producers part.

      Welcome to the Gulch.
      VG
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    • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 5 months ago
      Even if you believe the story -- Jesus' sacrifice only sounds noble until you realize the only thing he's offering to save you from is his father's own wrath. In other words, it's a protection racket.
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      • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 5 months ago
        But he is his father. There is only one God, in Christian Teaching. There are three persons, but one entity. So, God sacrificed himself for the good of Humanity.
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