Where's the gold?

Posted by Non_mooching_artist 11 years ago to Economics
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Well, lock your gold up somewhere safe. The Feds will be taking up a collection in the not so distant future...
SOURCE URL: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/01/08/cataclysmic-what-you-probably-didnt-know-about-germany-getting-its-gold-back-from-the-federal-reserve/


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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago
    Locking it up might not help. FDR had this solution...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_...
    Executive Order 6102 required all persons to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, all but a small amount of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve, in exchange for $20.67 (equivalent to $366.59 today[3]) per troy ounce. Under the Trading With the Enemy Act of 1917, as amended by the recently passed Emergency Banking Act of March 9, 1933, violation of the order was punishable by fine up to $10,000 (equivalent to $177,352 today[3]) or up to ten years in prison, or both. Most citizens who owned large amounts of gold had it transferred to countries such as Switzerland.

    How long before BO signs his own executive order?
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 11 years ago
      Except did you notice how the US Gov was (and still is) actively going after those with "overseas bank accounts", allegedly to claim "the taxes owed to it"? Those Swiss accounts are becoming a dangerous place to hide your stuff, now that the Swiss Government has acceeded to the soverignity of the United States over it's banks.

      Please, as good capitalists, tell me you HAVE been following this. Most people have pulled away from banks "across the pond" because they are no longer either safe or secure havens. It's just a matter of time until the rest of the "haven" countries are forced to bow to the mighty Fed.

      I am seeing nowdays perhaps the safest place to store your gold, truly IS in an unmarked, unknown cache, much like Pirate Booty, or sewn into the hems of your coats or nailed into the hollow soles of your shoes. Maybe Danneskjold has the right idea...
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago
        Neither the FED nor FDR had the ability in 1933 to track down and identify every purchase every individual made. Today they do. I suspect the drones soon to fill our skies will be able to "see" the gold nailed into soles of our shoes:-(
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
      That Executive Order was widely ignored. Gold was never illegal. More later.
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      • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago
        Why do you so ardently defend the actions of the Marxist socialist progressive democrats? Are you one of them pretending to be an Objectivist?
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        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
          I only cited the facts. Read the article I posted under History. You can go into any coin store in America and buy an American gold coin from before 1933. Buy all you want. (We had a temporary shortage about a year ago, from all the buying.) People held back millions of them. Banks turned them in to the Fed. Most people were not affected.
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          • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago
            No you don't "cite facts". You consistently post unprovable sweeping generalities such as "That Executive Order was widely ignored." and "In America of the 19th and 20th centuries most people were predictably ignorant, superstitious, and fearful." on another post. How can you possibly know these things?
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 11 years ago
    Nope. Not here. If the Feds can come into your home & demand to take your hard commodities, what's to stop them from taking anything else you own?

    That's when one's true convictions will be tested. I only hope I never have to face that situation.
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    • Posted by 11 years ago
      I hope not too. That would mean this sovereign collection of states is no more.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 11 years ago
        If you have overseas property or accounts, they already are. Look at the EU bank acccounts being looked at by the DHS for the IRS. (or vice versa)...

        Know what's really sad?? People in the EU comment - rather a lot - that we Americans are the only people who are owned and controlled by our government - even on foreign soil, where they are not. Their example (and it's a good one) - As an American, you cannot legally purchase either Cuban Cigars or Rum overseas. While to some personal friends it makes those bottles of squirrled away Havana Club AƱejo at an "undisclosed overseas holdings" a bit more precious... it makes the American who purchased them and that keeps them at their fireign property, even though it never left that foreign soil - a lawbreaker subject to federal arrest.

        When I heard that - and through researching found out it was, indeed, factual, it broke my patriotic heart.
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  • Posted by jrberts5 11 years ago
    Obviously, gold and silver coins and bars will be the currency used in an actual Galt's Gulch. I'm thinking silver will be used a bit more for day to day transactions. I would like to ask this question and see what others think. Would copper coins, say a 1 ounce copper round, also be a viable currency in such a setting?
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    • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years ago
      My question would be who sets the value of each commodity, then you know how large or small each coin would need to be. I don't think it's logical to use the current word values because there has been so much manipulation. In AS I think Midas set the value.
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      • Posted by rlewellen 11 years ago
        I wonder the same thing. Why are we sending natural gas overseas? Why are a bunch of bankers, wall street types and mega corporations part of a club? Do they manipulate the availability of goods in each country?
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
        The market decides. No one authority rules. You can mint coins in any size you want and eventually, it all works out. As I noted, Honduras and the Netherlands struck small silvers worth about 1 or 2 US Cents. The US experimented with a 20-cent coin and a $4 gold (never issued) to align with the Latin Monetary Union of Europe.

        Calling coins by the name of "money of account" (dollars, pounds, francs) caused no end of troubles and led directly to fiat. Note that the UK Gold Sovereign has no denomination on it. The very first US Gold coins had no denomination. The second series had it in the rims only. Later in silver, only an abbreviation such as QUAR. DOL. was added as a legend on the reverse.

        The epistemology of capitalism expects that gold, silver, copper, etc., etc., will all fluctuate in price relative to each other every moment of every day, as do oil, lumber, sugar, and soy.

        It is still possible to have a general or even universal "money of account." In the Middle Ages, probably 1000 different authorities struck silver and gold coins, the silver often debased. Bankers invented "pounds shillings pence" as an abstraction to deal with that.
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        • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 11 years ago
          I'm not talking about real world, I'm talking about in the Gulch. Someone has to set a base price, then the market can work.
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          • Posted by khalling 11 years ago
            yes, you put out an offer. when it meets acceptance then there's a starting price. others can agree or not . we are so used to control, that we begin to think in terms of "base price." Its value is determined based on its alternatives-such as a canadian mapleleaf for example( has a higher purity?) but it's true some will pay more for the particular stamp, all other criteria accounted for.
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          • Posted by jrberts5 11 years ago
            Thanks MikeMarotta for that info and thanks rockymountainpirate because you are right, someone will need to set a base value then the market would take over. Now as to the distinction of real world vs Gulch. I think it would be constructive for all to use Aristotle's terms and see the horror of the "real" world that we deal with as "actuality" and the Gulch as not a fantasy but a "potentiality" only requiring our action to make it a reality. It is important to have a positive goal to work toward in every area of life and the Gulch is a fine goal to have.
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            • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
              I just created a new topic under Economics for "Money in the Gulch." Not there, but for now, let me say that I have bought and sold from both sides of the counter at Libertarian Party conventions for silver qua silver. It is not unknown among patriots.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
            I just created a new topic under Economics for "Money in Galt's Gulch." If I got a fact or theory wrong, let me know. The Gulch operates just fine. It is the so-called "real world" today that seems so much like "through the looking glass."
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            • Posted by khalling 11 years ago
              If it's true the Fed has sold most of its gold in a fairly quick turn around that could have significantly impacted the price of gold. there was certainly talk over the last year of the Fed manipulating the price (they borrow and sell it off and give it back at some point through derivatives or whatever). given the amount of money printing there should be a corresponding correction in the price of gold.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 11 years ago
          The biggest problem with this theory is that market fluctuations of the past were often based on supply, demand, and perception of change. Today, you have a very sophisticated system of manipulation based on information and perception, supply and demand often do not become a factor except as "forcasted". This is one reason we saw gold at 1800 and ounce, and it dropped to 1200 and ounce. Not that there is more Gold, or it became less valuable, the market was manipulated, money made, and then manipulated back down for another cycle of endless wealth creation with no substance. Oil is the same way. The daily amount of refined gasoline sales is at its lowest in the last 40 years, yet gasoline prices are going up. If supply and demand were actually working, that would not be happening.
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
      No. An ounce is lot to carry for a small purchase like candy. Silver coins half the diameter of a US Dime have been common in the past. The US half-dime and 3-cent silver were just two. Honduras, Holland, and others also issued very small coins. We have not had coin purses in our wallets for 40 years now, but they were common.

      The UK tried full-value copper pence about 1800 and the "cartwheels" were soon abandoned.

      Overall - more on this later - I recommend against actually circulating precious metals. The wear out and lose value.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 11 years ago
        That's why coins are normally an alloy, not a pure metal - eventually, however, it will "wear"- ask anyone who has bought a, say, $500 face bag of mercury dimes... I can pretty much guarantee you that you are *not* getting your .715 ounces of silver per face dollar on those. So yeah, eventually they wear out, but the alternative is "tokens" representing an alleged amount on deposit... I don't drive a Chrysler, but can you say Fiat? ;-)

        Then again, the modern fiat coins don't fare much better - I found a '67 quarter in my change that was pretty thin and worn. At least the "real" money has some actual value to it... even if that silver 10 cewnt piece has only 9 cents worth of silver in it, it still has... 9 cents worth of silver, not .014 cents worth of base metal.
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  • Posted by $ Maphesdus 11 years ago
    Our money isn't actually backed by gold anymore. Why does Glen Beck say it is?
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 11 years ago
      I think he is referring to the implied value of what there is "on hand" According to Wiki:

      The United States Bullion Depository holds 4,578 metric tons (5,046.3 short tons) of gold bullion (147.2 million oz. troy). This is roughly 3 percent of all the gold ever refined throughout human history. Even so, the depository is second in the United States to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York's underground vault in Manhattan, which holds 7,000 metric tons (7,716 tons) of gold bullion (225.1 million oz. troy), some of it in trust for foreign nations, central banks and official international organizations.

      If what he is implying were true, the 4578 metric tons the gov"t was supposed to have, in fact doesn't. Not to mention the 7,716 tons (which is probably where the German Gold was stored) that, if missing, would leave us exactly nothing, zippo,only the "full faith and credit of the US Government". I'm not sure, but I would bet a credit score for our boys in Washington is probably sub-400 nowadays, so we would be well and truly, uh, er, toast.
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