Why Socialism Is on the Rise

Posted by cp256 10 years, 10 months ago to Politics
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It took capitalism half a century to come back from the Great Depression. It's taken socialism half that time to come back from the collapse of the Soviet Union. In New York City, avowed socialist Mayor Bill de Blasio has declared that his goal is to take “dead aim at the Tale of Two Cities” – the gap between rich and poor. In Seattle, newly elected socialist city Councilmember Kshama Sawant addressed supporters, explaining, “I wear the badge of socialist with honor.” To great acclaim from the left, columnist Jesse Myerson of Rolling Stone put out a column telling millennials that they ought to fight for government-guaranteed employment, a universal basic income, collectivization of private property, nationalization of private assets and public banks.

Ben Shapiro makes some good points that may help some folks argue with the leftists. See URL for full essay.
SOURCE URL: http://patriotpost.us/opinion/22583


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  • Posted by $ Stormi 10 years, 10 months ago
    If socialism is on the rise, and it certainly seems more prominent, it is due in part the the government school system. For a decade or more, children, now voters, have been exposed to daily brainwashing on the joys of socialism and the harms of capitalism (which they are not told is crony capitalism)..
    It is not new to have the socialist agenda pushed from the White House. Bush Sr. talked of his "thousand points of light", code for one world socialism. Hillary Clinton had already united with the UN, and was starting to ask people if they had unused bedrooms, with the idea government could use them for homeless people. It was during this time that Portland tried UN Agenda 21 type methods to try to move people out of rural areas and into the city, so the rural areas could be rewilded. They refused to give building permits outside city limits, used population density to say how much yard a person could have, or risk not getting permits for such things as water heaters. Portland and Seattle have always been hotbeads of socialism, just as North Dakota had an active and obvious communist party working there when I lived there. Wisconsin, once the center for communist party activity by the CPUSA, remains extremely liberal.
    However, they are making it hip to be a socialist now. Where once, Hollywood actors were war heroes, today, they are socialists. Kids don't want to grow up, but they want to emulate these immature chronological adults. I doubt any of them seriously get beyond copying them, to the point of reasoned thinking. I am convinced none of them think of morality per se when they embrace socialism. Talking points, that is what they deal in.
    Capitalism needs no justification. It does not need a mantle of morality. Liberals disdain religion, except for Gaia type worship, they are not really into morality when they follow plans like Agenda 21, it is about control.
    If a man is using his brain and reason to exchange value for value, no excuses needed. If liberals don't see it, that is what led to Galt's Gulch in AS. Stupidity is a personal choice to many citizens are making lately.
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  • Posted by libravin 10 years, 10 months ago
    If anyone knows what EVIL is I guess it would have to be you....you hit the bullseye ....if America voted this way Socialism, then as you say they deserve what you get.....people are sleep ing or just don't give a damn.....its not the America I know for sure,I just feel sad that my grandkids are not gonna feel our know the real story which is bring re written in the text books today,,
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 10 months ago
    While I might agree that Socialism is on the rise, I don't see that as necessarily a failing of Capitalism to establish it's legitimacy in a moral sense. I see it more as Capitalism attempting to find the easy road in the face of Socialism and trying to justify itself in a compromise in the moderate sense. Capitalism's morality lies in the individual and natural rights. Implying a 'forced altruism' that says that if you don't buy my products, even though I don't like you, I will starve. Where's the individual in that statement? it's not there, only a you and I are there, a group by definition that rejects the individual. The rational individual won't starve. He will prepare and shift strategy or product as necessary to provide for himself. He will learn and adapt.

    While Capitalists have abandoned the morality and successes of the rights of the individual, the Socialist have kept on with the path of destroying the middle class, therefore creating more perceived need for promised help and relief that can only be obtained from Socialism's enlightened programs. Capitalism is an economic theory and Socialism can best be defined as political in nature. Socialism's goal is not an economical leveling as discussed in intellectual terms, but is directed at subjugating the rights of the individual to the power of the state. It is about power and control. Economics is simply a prong on the methodology to attain that goal.

    Any attempt to argue the benefits of the economics of Capitalism over Socialism immediately encounters the self doubts and lower self esteem of general society as well the complexity intrinsic to the understanding of economic issues at the individual level. In order for Capitalism to gain traction, it must build upon the benefits of self determination, freedom from - and freedom to, and opportunity to the middle class individual to not just succeed, but to sustain. It must cast centralized technocrat control as fumbling, inept, wrong, and harmful to that same middle class individual.

    But Capitalism can't grow until it casts off the desire to compromise, to fit in, to sustain today's profits while tossing to the winds tomorrows gain. It must also develop a language that is more common to the general population and is directed to the fears and aspirations of that middle class individual.

    I'm feeling disjointed right now and need to think more on this.
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
      Zenphamy, I agree. You identified the essential distinguishing characteristics when you wrote, "Capitalism is an economic theory and Socialism can best be defined as political in nature." It is Market versus Power. Capitalism is about agreement; socialism is about force.

      I am disconnected from your last paragraph, after which you confess to being "disjointed." (ouch! I hate when that happens).

      Socialists complain that firms are only interested in quarterly results. That fails on two grounds. First, past prices do not determine future prices. The present is the only reality. More deeply, successful firms with longevity do look to the far future. They invest about 15% in R&D.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago
      I must respectfully disagree. Capitalism need not apologize for anything, it just needs to show a profit at every turn!

      Compromise is one of the big reasons that the socialists have gained so much ground in the past century.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
        If that is what you believe, cp256, why did you post the original link? That article did not celebrate profit, but rather, service to others. I agree that compromise with socialism led to the demise of capitalism, but how is this article to which you linked not an example of compromise to altruism?
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        • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
          it was about argument. how best to grab a potential audience. Also, it's not about belief. it's about thinking things through as you well know.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
            So, do we sell capitalism by bait-and-switch? I agree 100% that capitalism is the best social system for letting people decide for themselves how to engage in charity.Under capitalism, you can form a commune.
            "The most widely known business that emerged from the Amana Society is Amana Refrigeration, Inc. This national leader in the production of refrigerators was founded by an Amana native, George C. Foerstner at the time of the Great Change. The first beverage cooler, designed for a businessman in nearby Iowa City in 1934, was built by skilled craftsmen at the Middle Amana woolen mill. In the decades that followed, the mill became the site of this large, now private, plant producing refrigerators, freezers, air conditioners, and in 1965 introduced a new product--the Amana Radarange Microwave Oven. Today, the 19th-century woolen mill smoke stack still rises over the modern plant." -- http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/amana/text....

            It is indeed true. However, it is a consequence, not a primary. To sell capitalism on that basis is to undermine the foundations. It might be an interesting way to open a discussion with a communalist. I am not sure how productive that will prove to be. You might have (or had) some success via that route. I do not perceive it as a strategy.
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            • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
              I'm just having an argument not making a business plan. (amana-low blow)
              I understand the primary. but the primary argument made to a true socialist believer falls on deaf ears. I am not negotiating I am luring out the doubtful. shoot-true believers take work! bait and switch is not the plan. I argue from reason but I build philosophy with another carefully and at the right time
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    • Posted by Maritimus 10 years, 10 months ago
      I grew up under the sway of three of the following five prominent tyrants who all called themselevs Socialists: Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler, Tito and Mao. After maturing to adulthood, I came to the realization that there are two fundamental principles which govern the life of humans everywhere. I use the term principle in the meaning of those in thermodynamics. Things that cannot be proved by calculation or measurement, but that nothing ever in human experience proves wrong.

      First: People get the government they diserve. (Corollary: If you do not rebel, you accept.)

      Second: Socialism is to the human society what cancer is to living tissue - a degenaration of all the most fundamental proceeses of life: freedom, family, work, education, entertainment, government. Just as cancer kills living, socialism poisons society to death.

      From its beginnings in mid 19th century, Socialism has become an intoxication of the unthinking, uneducated and incapable, administered by power mongers, utopians and courtiers.

      Ultimate test will be when we find out, by trial and error, as all true research must do, if the craving for freedom is truly an intrinsic property of humans. I believe that the more or less recorded history of the last 6000 years has shown without the doubt that it is. The same history, I believe, shows that the advancement is not linear and that there are movements backwords. Remember the Dark Ages in Europe? Who says that we are not at the beginning of another such? Apparently, the carnage that was the 20th century is not enough to persuade contless utopians, particularly in the academy, not to more or less naivly support the power mongers who are always present everywhere.

      My own opinion is that the fight is over the minds of people, and my faith is with the Founding Fathers who believed that life, liberty and persuit of happiness are inalienable rights of humans. To me, that implies that humans, by
      their very nature, crave freedom.

      Does any of this blabbing make any sense to you all?
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 10 months ago
    What URL?
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    • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago
      It didn't include the URL that I had provided in the URL form field for some reason. Figures, being my FIRST post after lurking for so long. No ability to edit the post as well, figures.

      http://patriotpost.us/opinion/22583
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      • Posted by richrobinson 10 years, 10 months ago
        Thanks cp256. Great post.
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        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
          The genius of Ayn Rand's philosophy is that it discovered and presented a METAPHYSICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL foundation for the morality of egoism which justifies capitalism. Do you think - as in that piece from the Patriot Post - that the moral justification for capitalism is that you need other people or else you will starve? What if you the smartest person in a village? Would you need them? Truly, in capitalism everyone CAN benefit by trading with others of whatever abilities.

          Long ago, a libertarian named Jerry Emanuelson published an algebraic proof of Ricardo's Law of Association. He showed with high school algebra, that even if you can do two tasks better than someone else, it is still more productive for you to divide your labor and exchange it, regardless of who does what.

          The point is that without someone else, you could do all of it yourself. If someone else is there to trade with - even if they are not as accomplished as you - you both can benefit.

          But that is NOT the moral justification of capitalism.

          Remember that too often, the mass of humanity reject the work of the creative genius. Does that true producer have no justification for their own existence?
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
        hey lurker, glad you joined in! great post
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        • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
          You seem to have a very good understanding of the philosophy behind "Atlas Shrugged." I am surprised that you let the fundamental error in this post go by. I understand the sentiment, perhaps, as I said, as a secondary consequence. It is a funny kind of paradox, pointed out by Adam Smith, that when each works for their own self interest that all will benefit. But that is not a moral justification for capitalism. The primary reason for free enterprise is the right of the individual - the metaphysical need of each person - to live their own life by their own standards, even if no one else goes along.

          See the topic on "The Creative Genius" under Philosophy from two months ago:
          http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/1b...
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
            you do not argue with a socialist about the rights of the individual. Where you persuade with a socialist (in this case especially NEW socialist-youth) is in the inherent contradictions of their belief, You point out the contradictions in what they already understand as "moral." start there.
            Once you get them to see the inherent contradictions in their belief-NOW is the time to discuss natural rights. NOW you can build the framework explaining the moral case for Capitalism. I totally read the article from that perspective. Shapiro has been clear about reaching out to young people in particular and frankly Objectivism loses that war. Many youth read AS but then reject Objectivism. That's because they are already true believers in altruism. they can't escape it-it's taught either explicitly or implicitly in every class up to college and most classes in college.
            As for the 10 commandment part, I usually ignore that stuff, but it is an effective argument to point out government is not a god-most see the absurdity of that when presented with it.
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            • Posted by dbhalling 10 years, 10 months ago
              While I do not think Shapiro is making the case for "altruism" as a philosophical system, he is still using that sort of reasoning. I think he makes a good point about Socialism being theft. I don't think conservatives are capable of a moral defense of capitalism - at least those that are religious. But I agree that it does need to be made.

              However, I also do not believe that their is theory of economics that is consistent with Objectivism. It certainly is not Austrian Economics which is what most Objectivists lean towards. Austrian economics is based on the idea that reason is limited and people's economic decisions are subjective.
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              • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
                That is where Objectivism differs from Austrian economics. Objectivism recognizes that we have _different objective values_. If you buy a classic Mustang and let a pretty girl sell you a set of metric wrenches, your "subjective" value for flattery will not meet your needs. On the other hand, when I buy those metric wrenches for my classic VW Bug, I have made an objective choice, albeit, not one that a Mustang owner should make. Austrian economics calls them all "subjective" choices.

                Objectivism solves the problem with finer granularity.

                Yes, reason is limited. So is experience. That is the reason why is it important to note that just as they are not omnipotent, neither are they impotent. Limited as our knowledge and experience may be, our choices can be subjective (whim, or mystical) or objective (pro-life).

                I do agree with you 100% that the "conservative theory of economics" is not consistent with Objectivism. I mean, you can find easily an array of "Biblical Abundance" preachers. As in the main link here, you find them justifying capitalism on altruistic grounds. I have to grant at least the Parable of the Talents, but, really, you know, if you wanted to invest in Nevada Whorehouses, you would be hard pressed to find a Christian minister to endorse that... gratefully: I mean, let's nod to logical consistency here...
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          • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 10 months ago
            MM, you have made two great points:
            1. the right of the individual which is the prime justification
            2. that all benefit from trade.
            I add this comment- as point 2 (trade) gives a higher economic outcome, survival is ensured as alternative systems are out-performed. If this were not the case the prime objective is noble but worthless.
            I may stand corrected but I observe that more socialism may give economic growth for a few years but there is inevitable decline. (You have to quote Singapore as an exception but that is a strange socialism with very low taxes, high business freedom etc.). So, even if socialism has merits, the system is not stable but must decline.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago
      click on the heading "Why Socialism Is on the Rise" and you will be taken to the full article.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 10 months ago
        Thank you! That is usually what I do, but when I read the questioner's post and noticed that the "SOURCE URL:" referred back to the /posts/addpost page I had a WTH moment and didn't check the subject link. I see now that the "SOURCE URL:" has been updated to correctly point to the subject link by some mysterious means.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 10 years, 10 months ago
    I believe now, that everyone has forgotten that our Founding Fathers ( ie,George Washington and the rest) were not christians by any sense of the term. They were Deist that about as close to Gnostics in government. They were not altruistic men, ready to give hand outs. Unfortunately, christianity in this country has taught altruism and flooded the minds of the people of this country with "give and you shall recieve" line. Now the government wants us- the middle class to give and all the poor (suspect) shall receive and receive. If the churches were Gnostic it would work very well in an entrenpenural capitilist work place. Both are selfish (the individual) because Gnosticism is that each of us has God inside our selves. Each of us is our own power and enlightment. There is a facilitator in the mix but not a minister or priest. We are still then individuals with a commitment to ourselves. I would believe Gnosticism would work well with Ayn Rand's Philosophy.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 10 years, 10 months ago
    I am sorry, but this is just plain wrong. This Ben Shapiro of the Patriot Post failed to identify the true moral basis for capitalism and instead - once again - delivered the same moral argument as the socialists, that capitalism is "truly altruistic." Capitalism does not begin with the realization that if I do not trade with you, I will starve. It begins with the fact that a productive person who is free will have surplus that can be traded to others who have values to offer.

    It is true that the more we have to offer others, the more we prosper. That is a SECONDARY CONSEQUENCE, not a motivational cause.

    Furthermore, Shapiro attempts a mystical, traditionalist justification. Again, the essential, axiomatic foundations of capitalism are in reason and reality, and in the discovery and creation of the New, of innovation and invention.

    Socialism is not at all "on the rise." It is on its way out; and has been since 1957. Objectivists have been making the real case for capitalism for half a century and have been taking the steps leading to the demise of socialism.

    A handful of desperate politicians in Seattle and New York do not make a movement. The time has come to declare victory. We are right now like the Allies after Normandy or the Union after Gettysburg. All that is left is the mopping up.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 10 months ago
      Mike: Please pull your head out and take off the rose colored glasses. Socialism is winning everywhere. And the worst part is that they are infusing the judicial branch with socialists so that they can further enact their system through the legal system.
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    • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 10 months ago
      MM is right again. Socialism is not growing. Unfortunately what is growing is something as bad. You could call it the corporate state, it has much the same characteristics, what happened is that the 'governing class' has, correctly, reached the feeling that government ownership does not work so they switched to government control of companies, corporates, and the economy. The control is exercised by a small class of crony capitalists and government officials while those elected just sign off, example, the EU, uncannily like Orwell predicted. Whatever turns up, climate change, racism, human rights, is turned into more taxes, censorship and restrictions.
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      • Posted by mckenziecalhoun 10 years, 10 months ago
        So the fact that a vast majority of our Democratic representatives in Congress are also members of the Democratic Socialists Party and politicians feel free to announce their socialist associations isn't a rise in Socialism?
        Go look at their membership.

        Yes, it is growing and pretending otherwise is not going to stem it.
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
        I just think it's the excuse of the progressives to hide behind any number of other labels. In my lifetime, socialism has increased exponentially. From Department of Education to Medicare to Obamacare-major socialist accomplishments. The govts of the GDP is higher than it was during WWII. Regulation explosion compared to any other time in history. Compared to you Lucky, I admit I'm too close to it-if we look worldwide at progress in Asia for instance. But parsing the definition of socialism vs crony socialism vs welfare state vs progressivism vs facism, I'm not sure the point. They are all anti-individual rights, anti property rights. It's dangerous and has to be stopped.
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        • Posted by Lucky 10 years, 10 months ago
          The ever growing government spending is one element, another used to be government ownership of mines, mills, telecoms, airlines, railroads, banks, hospitals, power stations. This has changed to control. So it is not socialism as it used to be called or as Marx or Stalin would recognize it. kh, yes- it is unproductive to engage in 'parsing'. It is like a harmful bacteria that has morphed.
          So how to stop it? more ammo? Or learn from the enemy?
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years, 10 months ago
            I am amazed at the success the left has at recruiting youth. It's all based on a paper tiger of hating business-yet government is behind every WS face. Where is the outcry for jobs? Although recent college graduates enjoy a low 3.9% unemployment rate-the jobs they are taking are primarily low skill jobs that used to go to high school graduates. The fact is high skilled workers can take middle skilled jobs and middle skilled workers will take low skill jobs. In the US, the number of jobs requiring a 4 year degree is on the rise-meaning college graduates with an education "worth" of 100k are taking receptionist, food service, waiter, secretarial positions at an alarming rate. Why are these people not taking to the streets on the weekend! Youth also tend to support anti-drug laws and anti-immigration. Here is part of the rub. Conservatives will not give in on either of the last two issues, and so they lose the youth. As well, the gvt is handing out NGO community organizing jobs like candy-specifically targeted to college graduates. Take this poorly paying "Help america" job and we will recognize your time in the trenches and award you with a mid level govt job when you've finished. The major colleges are flooding their curriculum with public policy majors. You want to pay off that student loan debt? You gotta work for "us." Capturing the independent vote is harder to do under the current economic climate. The fiscally conservative independents are torn between reducing govt spending and wanting a safety net in case they're the ones laid off. Or they ARE unemployed due to the economic recession. We already have the support of small business owners.It seems to me persuading the youth is key-in many ways they have the most to lose.
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