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The human side of too much government

Posted by Lucky 9 years, 5 months ago to Government
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Greek journalist, Despina Antypa was worried about her job.
She planned a career in business. After working all day she attended baking classes until 10pm and practised pastry-making skills at nights and on weekends. Then as feared, both she and her husband lost their jobs and went on benefits. All their savings went into the new business – investing in a website, building a brand and establishing premises. Things were going to get better.

But the bureaucrats had other ideas. Despina relates the nightmare of trying to set up a business in Greece today. She had to forecast her profits for the first two years and then pay a tax of 50% on that estimate. That amount had to be paid regardless of whether she made that profit or not. She needing 20 sqm for her bakery, she was told she had to purchase at least 150 square metres. Regulations also required additional toilets, fire exits and the building of new walls. Health and Safety departments gave contradictory instructions.

There is no happy ending to this story.
She and her husband, with their dreams and aspirations, ended up leaving Greece.

For the optimists- whichever the country they went to, made gains of people with skill who want to work.

nytimes.com/2014/07/03/opinion/greek-recipes-for-survival.html
(gone to a subscription only page)
---------
A optimistic migrant story
A HIGH school senior in Southern California achieved a surprising academic clean sweep - he has been accepted to every Ivy League school.
- the son of Mexican immigrants whose schooling stopped in the eighth grade
His biggest motivation was letting his parents know that their hard work meant something

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-ne...


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  • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
    Welcome to Greece, USA... Several years ago we wanted to expand our home-based business in Virginia (cottage business). We planned on buying a larger house, employing three people and increasing production. After making all the arrangements, a week before the closing I found out that the county wanted us to add wheelchair ramps to the house (the nature of our business could not possibly employ a wheelchair bound person) and other ADA requirements, build a firewall between the house and the business (nothing in our business has open flame or otherwise can lead to a fire any more than a normal home would experience) and, finally, to rip up all the walls in the existing house and install a sprinkler system throughout. We walked away. And the county lost three extra direct jobs, plus construction work, plus increased production, plus increased sales taxes… Welcome to Greece, USA.
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    • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 5 months ago
      What I have seen is every regulation increases the capital needed to start a business. Since small business is started with sweat equity and home capital there will be reduced small business formation and that is what the numbers show since Obama.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
        Yes, but a correction is order - Osama has greatly accelerated the trend, but American socialism began a long time ago (WW II vintage, at least). It took a couple of decades to fully entangle the economy, followed by the chocking of the culture. Now, except for a fair amount of previously built wealth (infrastructure), we are a Third World country. When the previous wealth disappears, we will officially join Osama's home country.
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    • Posted by XenokRoy 9 years, 5 months ago
      I had a side business for several years. I sold as used (so as to remove support needs) computers which were really new. I bought the parts and assembled them, at first once a month and as it grew weekly and then got to the point where I employed a couple of high school kids I trained to work after school and on Saturdays, about 30 hours a week between them.

      The state came along and wanted me to install sprinklers and ventilation system to handle any fumes. I simply closed the operation down. Add in all the costs of meeting regulation that should not be there. We had no fumes and no risk of fire.

      We were taking PC cases and using a screw driver to assemble the components and install an Operating system with a scripted install process from a central server and then run a QA test to make sure they worked.

      The taxes I was paying went out the door and two part time jobs also were gone. I lost a great second income and long term the state lost what would have likely grown into a significant web based business selling PCs to people that know how to take care of them and do not need long term support or to pay for it in the price of the PC.

      Even more important is the fact that I really lost interest in starting any kind of business because of the red tape and regulation imposed by the state. I think there is a completely huge and unmeasurable cost to the economy due to people who decide very simply to just not put up with it and shrug.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 9 years, 5 months ago
        And there's another group of people that lost - the customers. And the gainers? - the parasites that managed to devour yet another carcass. Eventually, they will go too, never understanding why or how. But I have no pitty for the parasites.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 5 months ago
    Reading some of the comments below, I wonder if there are statistics on 'how many business try to start and are stopped by regulations'? (Unfortunately, there is no way to tell how many people decided to NOT start a business because of a prior example.)

    When Wm and I founded Schuyler House, we filled out a single form that said, "We are starting a corporation." paid about $200 and got a set of papers back that told us what to do next. That was in Calif in about 1993...

    It was all very encouraging.

    Jan
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 5 months ago
    Going into a retail business circa 1969:
    We paid for an occupation permit (which I resented) had our lawyer incorporate it, moved in, set up, and we were in business. 46 years later...read the above. Even then I found enough inequities to inspire me to write a column for the trade papers in our field.
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  • Posted by philosophercat 9 years, 5 months ago
    The tragedy is the socialist government wants to have its debt forgiven but will not allow its people to be free to become productive. They should not be released from their obligations and must free their people before any additional debt is extended.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 5 months ago
    that is starting a business in New York, LA or Denver.
    In Mexico, you have to pay for high school, which is why so many drop out after 8th grade. In my community, a high school serves roughly a 50 mile radius of communities. This means many students have to board during the week, further increasing costs
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    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 5 months ago
      In order to prevent competition from the future generations in the zero sum game of feudal or socialist economic systems.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 5 months ago
        Actually, it is worse than that.
        In this example, the nation of Greece lost two people who no doubt were good journalists, tho' I am inclined to think there are enough journalists but not enough entrepreneurs.
        It is not just redistribution, it is a clear economic loss.

        There is an unstated inference in the story that bribery would have cleared the way.
        There are comments here about Virginia, New York, LA and Denver. I suppose like in Australia there is little overt bribery, (I could say that the bribe is built into the base pay, like tips in restaurants.) The struggle for a small business is wading thru the regulations approval and licenses. Health, safety, environment, and here especially, the labor rules.
        There is a growing industry of consultants ready to help here. Guess which way they vote?

        Perhaps there is some level of government control -as in the Laffer curve- that produces an optimal outcome, at least in economic terms. The problem is, even if there were, how to stop it growing?
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 5 months ago
    I lived in Greece for two years. Their economic system and especially tax collection system is an utter mess, being run (literally) by tax collectors circa Rome 10 AD.

    Here's the way it works: the tax police come around to your business and they look up the kind of business on a chart. If you have a small shop selling gyros you pay X per month in taxes - regardless of your actual income! And you have to pay the taxes right then - regardless if you have the cash!

    They even paid the United States IRS to come in and do a study on how they could implement a real corporate tax policy. After six months, they gave up because Greece couldn't even identify its own citizens!

    Greece is only barely tolerable for the tourists. The people there are repressed by a socialist government which is anti-business and anti-freedom.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 5 months ago
    What better country is there to go to anymore? The US (government) certainly no longer wants to let anyone make money honestly.

    Even if it's not our Gulch, a country that can meet that test is the one I want to be in.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 5 months ago
    In Mexico it's well under a thousand a month for the low end schools for secondary private and there is public schools. All private for prepa far as I know. High end 1850 pesos per month at 13 to the USA dollar. No social activities or sports thats european style and are half days in two shifts. The preparatory level is equivalent to junior college in many subjects. Families often send through one at a time and there is an adult level weekend or night school way to get the training.

    Average wages run 1000 to 1500 for a two week pay period of 12 days.

    Schools are primarily equipped with computers and have very little in the way of books on paper.

    Fringe of hurricane not at 35 offshore but not expected to get much higher in this area. Back to fishing tomorrow.
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