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The Fountainhead

Posted by Ibecame 9 years, 6 months ago to Movies
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We found "The Fountainhead" on iTunes and watched it last night. Wow (Long Pause for Effect) what a movie. This sure took a chapter out of my working life only I never had the enjoyment of blowing anything up after someone defaced my work or stole the credit. Did Ayn Rand ever have an ability to clearly see reality for what it was.


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  • Posted by coaldigger 9 years, 6 months ago
    The Italian production of "We the Living" is also excellent.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
      Is there a English version that you know of?
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      • Posted by coaldigger 9 years, 6 months ago
        Not that I know of but it has English subtitles. I watch current movies with closed captions anyway so I don't mind. Movies up to about 2000 I hear just fine but mumbling became in vogue so closed captions it is.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
          I'm OK with subtitles. Nice to know that I am not the only one that has noticed the "mumbling". Some future Archeologist I am sure will be writing a paper on how the Devolution of our language and society began in Hollywood and that this was the first visible sign of what was to come.
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          • Posted by coaldigger 9 years, 6 months ago
            Marlon Brando made mumbling popular in method acting but he mumbled audibly. A whispered, garbled mumble that is unintelligible is not art. I am not sure I want to blame this all on Hollywood. Kids are not taught how to speak anymore, elocution? I have reached the state of; If you don't care one iota if I understand what you said, don't bother me.
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        • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 6 months ago
          I am so thankful that I am not the only one having noticed the mumbling/whispering thing in modern productions.

          I always thought it was to accommodate the loud volumes one experiences when in a movie theater, but that doesn't make sense given the much longer history of movies in the movie theaters. Or, have they cranked up the volume in our "modern" era? But also, the network series productions are guilty of this as well. So it isn't just a theater thing.

          I think it is the fault of the sound engineers. Notice that when the kissing/slurping/chew face thing has to happen it is quite loud, but when some dialogue occurs you can hardly hear it.

          Many a production is guilty of this, and it should not attributed to certain performers. But I find Russel Crowe really guilty of this. I could hardly sit through the remake of 3:10 to Yuma because of this. Imagine that - having to turn on subtitles on an English speaking film so that you can follow the dialogue. Jeez.
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          • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 6 months ago
            TV, too... If the actor has a British accent, real or learned, the odds of understanding their speech is minimal. Luckily, some are eye-candy and their dialogue may not matter much... <g>

            On the third hand, I HATE IT when the 'background music' becomes Foreground Music and isn't faded down when the actors begin to speak.

            Producers or directors might think it's just SO cool or 'mood-setting,' but it just makes it impossible to hear a lot of the dialogue.
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            • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 6 months ago
              Indeed, while I really enjoyed Downton Abbey, I/we had to have the subtitles turned on - in English - to catch much of the dialogue. A small part of it was there were some English terms that were just unknown to us, but so much of it was because of the whispering/mumbling thing.
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              • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 6 months ago
                Parminder Nagra when she was on ER.... impossible...
                But the background music on a LOT of all-English (American-English)-speaking shows does the same thing.
                It's as if nobody ever takes 'one last listen' before saying "Print!"... or whatever they say now... :)
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  • Posted by Petri 9 years, 6 months ago
    Finished reading The Fountainhead a few weeks ago. It was hard to put down when reading, and I wanted to keep carrying it around even when finished. THANK YOU for the opinions here that the movie is worth watching. As you all know, the book is a masterpiece so I was afraid to view the movie.

    A good piece of news: my heavily liberal/socialist-influenced high school daughter is assigned "Anthem" for her summer intro to her Senior English class. This was a shock! Think I will pull out my recently acquired copy and try to engage some conversation.
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    • Posted by davidmcnab 9 years, 6 months ago
      Interesting for an AR book to end up in a public school or university reading list.

      You might like to have a look at the course guide to see how they're expecting the book to be treated.

      For all you know, they might be looking to smear the book and Ayn Rand, and make your daughter even more socialist.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 6 months ago
        Very good point, David. My daughter was excited to take a course as a freshman in college that was titled " the value of the individual". She was shocked to learn it was taught by a collectivist who taught the individual had no value. My daughter almost failed ( she is an admirer of Rand).
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        • Posted by davidmcnab 9 years, 6 months ago
          Steven Mallory really needs to sign up for some shooting classes at his local pistol range. I still almost spit coffee on my keyboard when I hear about types like this, not only living, but in positions of authority such as education.

          Something which helped me was studying the research of Geert Hofstede, who came up with the idea of "cultural dimensions" - stereotypes which are supported by evidence. The main dimensions are Power Distance, Individualism, Uncertainty avoidance, Masculinity, and Long Term Orientation.

          Where that applies in this discussion is with individuality, a dimension in which countries like the USA scores highest in the world. Other countries, such as South Korea and Saudi Arabia, score very low.
          http://geert-hofstede.com/united-states....

          Lecturers like your daughter had would be better off in one of these other countries.
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    • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 6 months ago
      THAT is totally cool. Anthem has the power to cut across and through the "liberal/socialist-influenced" thought/behavior because it can appeal directly to the emerging sense of a teenagers self perception and self awareness that is so crucial to the underpinnings of the rest of his/her life.

      I say this because that is exactly what Anthem provided me as a pre-teenager. And gee, without government mandated counselors.

      I was very young and looking for a verification of what I was so early formulating as a framework of thought that could provide an operable basis for life.

      Anthem, and the other major pieces of Ayn Rand's work - and the experiences of sitting alone on my ten-speed on the Concord Bridge in Massachusetts are intensely integral to my life.

      I sat there on Concord Bridge trying to understand why certain people would resist significant and apparently overwhelming forces at the risk of their very lives.

      I directly struggled with the immediately evident understanding that these individuals chose to possibly- and likely - die as a result of "resisting the king" than to live with a life arbitrarily determined by others than themselves.

      What "belief system" is worth more than life itself if it comes down to it? This is a huge visceral question for which many have given their lives as the very testimonial answer to the question.

      It is the "how did they know" question that haunts me the most about when it comes time to expend your utmost - as an individual - in the name of that freedom - and give it all.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
      Sometimes what your kids don't know won't hurt them. If she thinks you are reading the book at the same time she is taking the class, she might think that you are interfering (a mistake I made). If It were me, I would read the book, and get a copy of the "Cliff Notes" to. It never hurts to be a little bit "Omnipotent" when trying to overcome the socialistic school system. Like in a military campaign, it is always better to be on the higher ground and keep the enemy guessing. Curiosity is also a powerful tool with kids. I would bet she will at some point ask you how you know so much about the book, but I wouldn't say any more than the minimum.
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  • Posted by gcarl615 9 years, 6 months ago
    I read the FH after AS and loved them both. I also saw FH on Turner and was "Wowwed". Certainly thought provoking. I also thought that there some physical resemblance between Patricia Neal and Ayn Rand. Maybe it is just me.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 6 months ago
      Here an admitted Ayn Rand (due to AS DVDs) newbie, I had Netflix snail mail the FH several months ago.
      I was very impressed and gave it a full five stars.
      Then within a week I was channel surfing and found it playing on Turner.
      I was all like "What?!?"
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      • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
        We stumbled in after AS3. There are a lot of comments in this post from people mentioning that FH has played on Turner. We dropped cable years ago after we bought a Apple TV. Thats why we were happy to see it show up on iTunes. CD mentioned that there is a Italian version of "We The Living" (subtitled in English) you might find interesting.
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        • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 6 months ago
          I just watched the trailer on YouTube.
          Said "Yep, I want to see that."
          Went straight to Netflix but found it is glitching any movie I try to write in to order right now.
          I will get around to seeing that flick soon one way or the other.
          Thanks.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 6 months ago
    the book is even better. The Fountainhead is my favorite novel of hers, maybe because it spoke to me first. I had started both and proceeded with FH. From perspective, when I look back to my early 20s I was somewhat like Dominique and for the same reasons. Sure that the good in the world would be destroyed so why not start with myself. I wasn't that bad, but I do think there was that pathos with me. well then, thank you Dr. Ibecame. is our session over? lol
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    • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
      You should applaud yourself. Not many in life manage to start using their minds and take command of who they are. When I was in my early 20's I started down the path of the character "Ellsworth Toohey", only I discovered that I really had a talent for reading people and influence. It became an amusement. Fortunately a stranger cornered me at work and made me face the direction I was going. The more intelligent, the more power we have to be destructive. Intelligence prevents us from using it.
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      • Posted by BeenThere 9 years, 6 months ago
        The most dangerous thing in the universe is high intelligence not guided by reason.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
          Purely my opinion, but: A truly intelligent person has both reason and common sense (even though the shrinks don't seem to think so). That is the essence of a truly intelligent person. There are people out there with a high degree of knowledge and a high level of analytical ability, but I wouldn't call them intelligent (I have known some that even belong to Mensa). With enough analytical ability integrity becomes a choice not to be a moocher or a looter simply because it would be easy for you to do.
          Just to look at two ends of the spectrum; Hannibal Lecter and Einstein. Both were considered to have Genius IQ's but I personally would only consider Einstein to be intelligent.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 6 months ago
        you have an extraordinarily insightful line of thought
        going, here, imho. . intelligence carries in it the stuff
        of its own destruction, as well. . besides the potential
        to exploit others, there is the potential to "innocently"
        abuse yourself in a number of ways -- through
        driving your body too hard, or experimenting with
        drugs or adrenaline. . I bet that the shrinks have
        a whole "science" in this area.

        thanks for the elucidation!!! -- j, former mensa
        .
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    • Posted by Technocracy 9 years, 6 months ago
      I like the Fountainhead more than Atlas Shrugged initially as well.

      I think the reason I preferred it, is that it is a more personal novel than AS was. Atlas Shrugged was not as personal, the novel's focus shifted among a group of protagonists, Hank, Francisco, Dagny, John Gault. It was also focused more on the society and its decay.

      The Fountainhead was more focused on one man and his insistence on being true to himself despite societies efforts to make him conform.

      I think that focus is why it strikes a more intense chord with the individual.
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      • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 6 months ago
        Very good insight. After years of reading and loving both, I hadn't thought of that. It really supports the building of the philosophy from a story of one individual to an interactive story of many like minded individuals.
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  • Posted by Jer 9 years, 6 months ago
    I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged in that order. Loved them both. From what I have heard people tend to look more toward Roark than Galt. When I first saw The Fountainhead I thought it was just fair, but my opinion has changed for the better as I have seen it several times.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 6 months ago
    I saw it at age 10 or 11. My mother said I wouldn't understand it. In some ways, I didn't. In more ways, I did. I knew I liked Roark. I knew I wanted to be like him. Later, at age 14 I saw it again and the confrontation between Roark and Toohey was as if blinders had been removed from my eyes. I have seen it many times since. I always want to talk Wynand out of suicide. As a member of the real world I know Roark would never get away with blowing up the project, he'd probably do 20 years. But I'm glad he gets away with it in the story. Of course back in 1943, there well may have been enough people with good basic premises on the jury who could see the act for what it was and agree to Roark's testimony. Not today. They'd let a murderer go free, but a man of character, claiming a right to the property of his mind and talent -- doubtful.
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  • Posted by Zero 9 years, 6 months ago
    The mentor who turned me on to AR had me read her four major works of fiction in a particular order to present her unconventional views in a logical progression.

    First came "Anthem", a simple book that raised the issues.
    Then "We the Living" showed how these issues affect real lives.
    "The Fountainhead" gave us the morality of a Perfect Man,
    Finally "Atlas Shrugged" answered the inevitable question: 'What then must we do?'

    I think "Anthem" was my favorite (though Galt's speech was literally, physically. thrilling for me!) But "The Fountainhead" has been the most useful.

    My sister wears a bracelet with the letters "WWJD".
    I've always wanted one that said "WWRD" to remind me of the many times I've asked myself "What would Roark do?!"

    AR was truly one of the greatest minds in history.
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  • Posted by ohiocrossroads 9 years, 6 months ago
    I read the Fountainhead before I read Atlas Shrugged. But Anthem was the first book by Ayn Rand that I read, when I was in 7th grade. Then The Fountainhead, We the Living, and Atlas Shrugged. I like Howard Roark as a hero more than John Galt in that he was out in the world battling it all through the book. Galt is a shadowy figure for the first two parts of Atlas Shrugged, then comes to the fore in part 3.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 6 months ago
      Two different hero's for two different eras. I to prefer the optimism in The Fountainhead. John Gault had a tougher road to travel if you think about it. He was more like one of the officers on the Titanic that loaded the passengers that were smart enough to "withdraw" while the ship went down.
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  • Posted by Sunjock13 9 years, 6 months ago
    Brilliant Book... read it the first time right after finishing AS. Each time I have read it I am fascinated by how one must at times self sacrifice personal integrity to maintain integrity. Rourke will always be a deity to me.
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    • Posted by khalling 9 years, 6 months ago
      "how one must at times self sacrifice personal integrity to maintain integrity"

      how did Roark sacrifice his integrity?
      If Roark is like a diety to you, I think you've missed some important concepts in the book, sunjock. So I assume you mean this in hyperbole :)
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 6 months ago
    I have tried to read The Fountainhead a number of times - and bounced. I do not like the characters and I do not care what happens to them. This is especially true of Dominique. Not only did her internal wars not give me a sense of identification or pathos, but they made her a symbol of what is repulsive to me - someone who destroys wantonly.

    So The Fountainhead is not for me.

    Jan
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    • Posted by khalling 9 years, 6 months ago
      I think Dominique is very interesting. She worked on the belief that good achievement was impossible. I have met many such people in my life, who otherwise were brilliant and doers but their cynicism kept them from trying to achieve higher aims. We all can feel this way occasionally. She just represents a pure version of it. There are gulchers in here just like that. ahem, lucky. jan, can you think of anyone? :)
      But I agree it is annoying as hell watching her struggle against herself and how she tries to hurt others. Toohey to me is worth reading the book for-alone. Evilest character I've read that was not a monster.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 6 months ago
        Oh Thank you!

        When you did not immediately respond to cut me down to size for dissing your fave, I felt lonely and ignored! And no, of course I have never known anyone like that. Ever. (Ahem.)

        I listen to other people talk about the book, which means that I do not have to become personally involved in the characters.

        Interesting thread - and useful to me (because I get to be a total parasite and listen to what everyone else says without contributing.)

        Jan, making trouble today (for no good reason)
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        • Posted by khalling 9 years, 6 months ago
          No, making interesting and provocative discussion. I remember yelling at her and throwing the book acoss the room. I did it with Gail and Howard too (I don 't get tulipbulbs and will never be one) . I don 't have any idea who Galt is. He might as well be Rand in a trenchcoat and fedora. I didn 't long to know him either. I loved Francisco and wanted to know Ragnar. We 're all different that way without compromising our morality.
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  • Posted by IIGeo2 9 years, 6 months ago
    The film was amazing, amazing acting and it delivered the point straight home. You use to be able to watch free on Youtube and then it was blocked so I bought the movie as well.
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