A few, a very few, can be helped, but not in a 'rehab' or 're-education' model, and I speak from some experience. It takes mentoring and requested assistance (not help) as well as demonstrations at a personal level, but more than anything else, it takes a desire for pride in self. I've been disappointed more times than I've been rewarded. There are certain individuals that can benefit from such effort, but it's their own drive and desire and even with that, it takes a couple of years of offered opportunities for achievement before the transition to Objectivist thought becomes apparent to the individual. And it's often a surprise to the individual when they come to the realization of the change in themselves.

The best experience I had, was with a died in the wool socialist, SDS agitator in college in NY, with a Masters in history in his early 30's. It took him 5 yrs to make the full transition to want to reread AS (he'd read it as a socialist from the viewpoint of a man with pride in his own accomplishment. He'd seen it on my bookshelf for all those years and in the first couple made a lot of derogatory comments, but in his reread, we'd often spend another hour or two at work after everyone else had left, discussing what he'd found that he could relate to in his own work and life.

I ran into him 2 or 3 years after he'd moved on and found him taking the mentoring role with a young man working with him. When I made a comment about it, he just turned to me and asked me, 'Was it worth it Jones? The time you spent with me?' I replied, 'Yes Jack, it was.' He came back with, 'It is with me too.' and pointed to his bookshelf with AS and a few others beside it.

That's how it happens. One at a time, several times.

I agree with a lot of what mamaemma, blarman, marshalletc said, but I think that an obvious point is being missed: Art LEADS.

The way to bring awareness of Objectivism to people is to Make Movies About It. Make superheroes endorse the individual (we are discussing this on another thread), make people who work for freedom the good guys instead of the good guys being cast as people who work for Mother Earth or World Union.

We will never make headway against the socialist ethos unless we have a strong image to present of ourselves. Too long have the capitalists been the Bad Guys of the movie - we need to be the Heroes now.

This Site is the result of a movie. It has had more effect on promoting the Randist philosophy than anything other than AS the book itself. More movies are being made, discussions on this (now huge) Objectivist site are lively. I think we are on the right track. We have to win people's hearts before they will be receptive to our engaging their minds.

Jan

It is hard to overcome the entitlement thinking so programmed into our young people by schools and government. Our daughter was an example. Raised with the philosophy of Rand, she had a nice middle class life at home, and college. We tried to undo the programming along the way, but it took to to large an extent. She got her degree, had no desire to use it, got married to someone with no desire to work, and expected (and received hands outs from both sets of parents for a while). Finally my husband said "enough", and we cut them off. Now, daughter felt sorry for herself, they got public assistance, and told each other how mean everyone was. Then, one day, daughter got tired of living like the public assistance folk, having to join the health care lines, no cool car, no respect like when she was at home. She no longer liked being one of the sheep. She got a part time job, among producers, worked hard to create a full time position for herself. Suddenly, she began to climb the ladder and loved it. She is paying her own way still, and working on an MBA. She is in the process of dumping the lazy looting husband. This transition has taken about seven years, but it is wonderful to see. Hard to watch as she had to hit bottom on the looter scale, but her enthusiasm for producing, and the success she is finding, is wonderful. She understands that respect is earned by productive behavior. While I never had that issue, I was always an Objectivist at heart, she had to find her way to it. It does not help that we do want to give our children too much, we want them to have that cool car, that pricey education, but sometimes, they can't handle being given what they should earn. Deep down, they know that only by earning, can you find self-respect, it cannot be given.

Take everything away. Start fresh. They will have to work for everything; nothing will ever be given to them for free again. This kind of reminds me of what Dagny went through when she crashed into the Gulch. She had to start over.

One thing I was thinking is that it's not a good idea to approach them as "looters." Many have a completely different gestalt about production, what the government's responsibilities are, the nature of rights, etc. so they're not thinking and many would be appalled to think of themselves in those terms.

I know many socialists and socialist-leaning who are very concerned about protecting the rights of "the little guy," i.e. the guy with little money and property or power, against those with a lot of money who can buy favors. It's a real concern!

However, they're taught to think about it in terms of groups - disadvantaged groups. I like to approach it with : I'm for protecting the smallest minority, the individual. And explain my ideas from that vantage point.

I am guilty of mooching for a month.
Before I heard of Ayn Rand due to the AS movies, a huge tornado missed my home by a quarter of a mile, causing some damage, though the worst was a pecan tree falling across the street, ripping down all the power lines and almost reaching my front door. The power was restored in 3 days. I had no cable or Internet for a month.
I heard on the news the government was offering a card to cover about $400 for food for tornado survivors, but I knew a lot of people was worse off than me.
A next door neighbor with roof damage said I should get the card because I was having trouble making ends meet and looking for a job though receiving a pension.
I got to thinking OK that $400 would help. There was a huge line at that government building. I got the card and maxed it out buying groceries. I thought that was it.
Big Brother sends a letter to ask me why aren't I using my card EVERY MONTH.
That's when I realized I had electronic food stamps and received a quick education what an EBT card really was on the Internet.
What got me was that Big Brother wanted me to keep using that card bad enough to write an encouraging letter.
I shredded that sneaky backdoor into Obama dependency land.
Later I found a job that I had a while before I returned to fully retired.
I wonder how many people are still using that card but could by without it. Quite a few, I think.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=plea...

Here's one thing I would propose: simple farming. Why? Think about it.
1. It's hard work. There is no better cure for the looting mentality than simple, hard work.
2. It teaches pride in hard work. It is an awesome thing to watch plants grow and produce and to know you have had a hand in the process.
3. It teaches the value of investment and return. You till, you plant, you weed, you watch, you harvest.
4. It teaches one to be cognizant of where all food comes from and not to take for granted something we need every day.
5. If you do it right, it gives an opportunity for barter/trade, as you can usually make more than you need, giving you excess for trade with others.

One thought is to give people who were receiving govt monies from govt programs, grants, and contracts money for nothing and wean those pmts down slowly. They'd be free to find other jobs while still receiving money, at least for a few years, that they previously earned working at military bases, prisons, or grant-funded research. The same could happen for medical assistance, food stamps, retirement/disability benefits, etc. Cold turkey would be better, but I don't see that happening.

I don't see the corporate-owned right-wing media supporting either cold-turkey or weaning. The best I realistically hope for is freezing spending at current levels, with spending-to-GDP ratio declining slow enough to avoid withdrawal.

A looter rehab program would have one core purpose, to educate a "looter" that there is another effective option for them.

All we can ever do is place the philosophical feast in front of them, it must be their choice to dig in.

Force feeding them if they balk is the looter way, they already suffer under the weight of public school indoctrination and brain washing. We cannot do the same.

Our goal is to set their minds free, not cage them in.

Hello DavidMcnab,

What a great post. This is the direction I wanted to lead to with my "free ride" post but I didn't know how to get there. I was pondering on how to reach those people.

I like this. It brings to mind a 12 step program, Gulch style. First they have to admit they have a problem (addiction). Then you show them a glimpse of what it could be like with that addiction out of the way. They would have to really want to "fix" themselves.

I heard this one a long time ago and found it to be so true.

Help, whatever it is, is NOT there for people who "need" it, "HELP" is there for people who not only WANT it but will do what it takes to get it.

My wife's sister is a great example. My wife in the goodness of her heart wanted to help her sister, for no other reason than she loves her, and cannot stand to see her half starving with no perceived opportunities.

This is where "Rational Self-Interest" collides with "Charity and Altruism."

My personal self interest, and at my expense was to prove a point to my wife and "fix" her mind.

Her sister was attending school to be a CMA, has great grades, and completed her coursework in half the time everyone else did.

During the last 6 months of her training, I offer to let Penny live with my wife and I, complete her classes, and I would pay for her certification exam so she could get a very good paying job.

she graduated, never took her exam, moved in with her son. and went to work part-time at Home Depot, collecting welfare, and food stamps, and complaining about how unfair life is.

Last Thanksgiving Penny had NO money for food because they bought a horse and two goats.

My wife wanted to give them money for food, and I took the time to reason with her, about how that would do NO good other than take money from OUR lives.

The unfortunate aspect of this, is that while I did fix my wife's thinking, because it became painfully aware that money does not fix this issue, Penny has to make her own changes and the ONLY way that will happen is if she has to WORK it our herself. NO amount of charity or good will is going to "help" someone. Only the knawning hunger when their stomach is empty will their brain, hopefully, force them to realize what THEY need to do to fix their lives.

Most people do not have the discretionary resources to prove a point this way.

Now when Penny wants something my wife says NO. Did you get your CMA yet?

Good question and exposition, David McNab!

From reading comments in the Gulch, my thought is that the best rehab is to read one of Rands fiction books. From what I can tell, most Gulchers were introduced to her writings by someone. Now we have the movies, too!

It would be nice to do something dramatic that would instantly change the world but that isn't going to happen. I would like to comb all laws and programs to find and eliminate incentives that provide an equal or better benefit to those receiving aid than is earned by the lowest producer. It is insane to have people trying to qualify for "disability" because then they will be better off than they are doing the job that they currently have. This would be a small step but it would illustrate the principle that production pays better than the dole instead of the other way around. Once this sank in, other progress could be made.

David, how did your transformation occur?

Hello davidmcnab,
For some it will take a deprogramming, program. Perhaps something like AA's 12 step program and the first step is recognizing and admitting you have problem. I believe once people open their eyes to the reality that they are contributing to the leftist, socialist mentality that is destroying rather than improving things, only then can they be redeemed. Some, as you have indicated, are and always will be oblivious, while others know deep down there is something wrong.
Regards,
O.A.

Just remind people of what Baroness Thatcher understood: pretty soon you run out of other people's money.

I have spent a decade of my life with doing this for others as my primary reward. I work and run a technical support organization for various companies over the years, but the last decade my real aim has been to, little by little help people see the light of individualism, capitalism, Objectivism and LDS church. Any or all that a person shows interest in.

I have had some success and some disappointment. I think reaching out to others is the only way to really do it, and it takes time.

An example is the idea of taking care of the poor. The sales point of "we have to take care of the poor" is easy to make. Very few people want to see others suffer and stand around and do nothing to help. The issue is questions around this cannot be in a sound bite.

How do you define help?
Is it really helping to give someone a fish everyday, or is that destructive?

What costs are acceptable?
Is it worth helping that poor guy on the corner and getting killed because he is really a mugger that wants to rob you?

What are the boundaries?
Liberals think there are none but when posed with questions like this they start to think.

I once had a person form my church (church of Jesus Christ of later day saints) ask how anyone who believes in the church could not be in favor of welfare. My response was "I cannot understand how anyone who is a member of the church could be in favor of government welfare."

He said that Christ showed the example and we should follow it. I asked "Show one place where Christ forced anyone to help another, can you? I have never found it. Government welfare forces people to help others. Our religion teaches individual agency, in fact do we not believe that in a war in heaven, our god lost 1/3 of his children in war to maintain individual agency. How then can you support a system that would take that agency away?"

Two weeks later that person had read Atlas and was starting into the virtues of selfishness. He has completely changed and has been a friend for 8 years.

The successes are far less often than the failures on this though, and there are costs. A friend that I approached has not talked to me in 5 years. I have a sister who drank the looter cool-aid big time and she will not talk to me at all. A brother that did so less and I have pushed him largely out of my life by trying to share the concepts. These failures in particular had a heavy cost, but the cost would have been heavier not to try.

In my sisters case I and my father had helped her financially and in other ways. She simply did not change at all and I became fed up with it. I expressed exactly what she was doing, victimizing me for her benefit and I could see in her eyes that she knew it, and was scared that I knew it. She has not talked to me since.

We all have to be the rehab program for those around us, in whatever environment we can. We have to tolerate the looters a bit less, a whole lot less. All it takes for evil to win is for good people to do nothing. I define good to mean a person who will take care of themselves, and do all in their power to not inflict force on another of any kind. Respect the way in which others wish to live their lives so long as that lifestyle does not exert force on others in order to live it. This is what Christ meant when he said "love your neighbor as yourself."

I love this concept because I believe there are a lot of center people who lean left for the wrong reasons because they have not thought things through.

Unless we do simply "go gulch", this is the most important group to reach.

Looter rehab, is to JUST SAY NO, to any form of charity for the homeless and poor.

Provide your "Charity" only to those who are worthy and provide "value."

Honestly the liberals are so bi-polar, they do not even understand that they betray their own ideology.

Look at what the lefty liberal Mika is doing...Rewarding hard work. This is a direct violation of the "unfairness" that people think poor people have.


Mika is pushing a "Know Your Value" campaign. Sounds like Ayn Rand right?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/mika-brzezins...

"Mika hosted a twitter conversation and answered questions on how to gauge professional value and balance work and home life. She also introduced her newest book Grow Your Value, a guide for women to assess and obtain their true value in the workplace."

WOW....isn't that totally opposite of the leftie ideology?

I want to second that this is a great post! I like the idea of giving the looters a fiction book to read. (of AR)
I also will not call them looters! One of my daughters and her husband are devoted to the Olier. They are not looters! We discuss philosophy often! Sometimes I wonder if they are just teasing me!?!?!

The best thing you can do is tell all who are interested to start buying all of the books written by Ayn Rand as well as Leonard Peikoff, Harry Binswanger and Schwartz and other of her followers who are noted today in their own right.

As in all rehab programs, for the addict to change, he or she MUST hit bottom first.
Whether the addiction is to drugs and alcohol or bad philosophy, the spark of change happens when the person comes TO himself and puts his life on trial.
I myself tired of taking care of others who were perfectly capable of handling life without my constant presence and energy input...they just were content to sit and live off my good graces and hard work.
I bottomed out after a contested divorce left me broke and broken.
It was then that I was introduced to Ayn Rand and her Objectivism and I have never since been tempted back into co-dependency.

My dad taught myself and my brother to be producers. I taught my son to be like wise wise. AS was a graduation gift from HS. We are currently teaching my nephew (my brothers son, because my brother was killed in a car crash in 06') to do likewise. He has watched the movie, but not read the book as he is only 11. He understands parts of it, but not all. He understands Money is a tool, and we are teaching him "The Oath"

Your "conversion" description fits many of us.
I think that a person must first express an interest in Objectivism. Once that occurs then let the learning begin. I like the way Branden did it. He formulated a 10 week course called "Basic Principles of Objectivism" and held classes in his locality. The sessions were taped, and people who were known Objectivists in various areas were selected to present the tapes on a weekly basis for the nominal fee of $10. I don't know if the course still exists in either Rand's or Branden's estates, or perhaps a new course can be formulated. In any case, I know that where I lived, it produced a group of people well grounded in Rand's philosophy.