Repeat after me: "I am >3SD from the human norm. No one will want to sit next to me at the lunch table."

This question has some bearing on the recent discussion of the Geller Cartoon Contest, where people were falling all over each other to be 'more politically correct than thou'. Give it up, Mammaemma: You are not going to be liked/appreciated/respected or - most importantly of all - Understood by the people around you.

The key is to not let it cause you anxiety and pain. Old Norse had a neat word: "nithing". It is the personal form of "nothing", so a nithing is a 'nothing person'. You are surrounded by nithings. They will patronize you, yell at you, strike at your weak spots (your child). You typically cannot stop them without compromising your own philosophy (eg stepping down to their level). You have to know in your own heart that they are irrelevant.

Steven Pinker in his recent book on writing "The Sense of Style:" recommends eliminating qualifiers from general communication. He points out that people who hear/read what you say with good intention are perfectly capable of inserting "In my opinion" or "To the best of my knowledge" on their own...and people who have ill intent will ignore those qualifiers and attack you anyway. I am trying to do this with my writing, though ample knowledge of my own fallibility makes me hesitate.

Jan, saved by arrogance

I bet that most people that found their way here have experienced this.

People that are governed by feelings rather than reason react to others emotionally. It is the way they function.

A substantial fraction of the populace does not like making decisions. Are not equipped to make "good" decisions. And are afraid of both situations that require decisions or decisive action, and react negatively to anyone not suffering those issues.

Jealousy and resentment are the most common negative reactions you get when not impacting them directly. A direct conflict gives you anger as a reaction.

My reaction to these people is pretty simple. First, as a someone that grew up in the deep south politeness was inculcated in me from a young age. So I'm as polite to them as their actions allow me to be.

I have a very short list of people whose opinion actually matters to me. These people without a doubt are not on that list, so the Roark option is the one I exercise when not in a direct encounter with them.

Not only do their opinions not matter to me, I cannot allow them to matter.
If I do allow their feelings to matter, I undermine my own reasoning process.
My responsibility is to myself and those about whom I care, not everyone else.

Hello, Mamaemma,

After reading your post, I ended up wondering whether you were describing an envious person rather than a jealous one.

I copied definitions from Wikipedia:

Jealousy is an emotion, and the word typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something of great personal value, particularly in reference to a human connection.

Envy (from Latin invidia) is an emotion which "occurs when a person lacks another's superior quality, achievement, or possession and either desires it or wishes that the other lacked it".

Which do you think you were facing? Just curious.

Look up the clinical definition of sociopath. I think you'll find answers there. Powerless personalities sucking their self-worth and self-esteem from the producers.
I'm in a lawsuit with one....had to file to bring this out publicly and end his "campaign".
I've found that Rand's essay, "The Objectivist's Ethics" is foundational in defining most of the irrational behaviors we see.

Hello Mamaemma,
It is human nature and sometimes appropriate when one is unsure of facts to use qualifiers. However, if one is confident fear not and hold your ground until reason and new information dictate otherwise..
I have been moved by your experience and that of others described here. I too have stories. It is an unfortunate part of dealing with some in society. I have no doubt many, if not all here, have had to deal with this occasionally. In this world a producer is a threat to moochers, and looters. We that produce are their targets and the focus of their envy. Wear it as a badge of honor.

"The worst guilt is to accept an unearned guilt." And: "There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil."
Ayn Rand

With great respect and admiration,
O.A.

I have found that using qualifiers is a habit left over from my past when I could never be sure about anything that I said and if someone became offended I felt that I had to blame myself. It was a way to appease anyone who might disagree with me and avoid confrontation. I mean, who is to say who is right or wrong, right? (right out of an Ayn Rand book) I did hear the words "you just have to be right, don't you" often but it was my own lack of confidence in speaking and in action that led me into situations where I had to defend myself over something I knew but didn't know why I knew or how to defend it properly. Confidence in my knowledge has helped eliminate those situations and/or given me the tools to handle them. My confidence has also helped to remove those people from my life whom I would still have to defend myself from.

I still have to work to avoid using qualifiers when commenting on this site. It's a tough habit to break but I figure if someone on here disagrees with me they will tell me so and we can have that debate. I am either wrong or right but both of us will have to defend our position till we find out. If we can't have that debate then one of us doesn't belong here. Sometimes I still use qualifiers if I am not sure that I fully understand what someone means in their post or comments.

Sorry to hear that your daughter was used that way. It is a cowards tactic. It is a statement to the strength of your character that they are afraid to come at you directly. Hopefully your daughter will come away from it stronger than even her mother.

All the time. I often get hit with people who hate religion. To me I wish people would look at religion as merely only one path to one's higher Karma, Deity, whatever. And Religion in and of itself has so many flaws, and people often confuse faith in a higher being with religion. I myself am a devout cradle to grave Anglican. We think of the story of creation as a metaphor for the Big Bang. Science is deeply woven into scripture, if you do not take scripture verbatim in todays world. You have to take in the history of the time that the scripture was written, and then re-apply it's meaning as it would be in todays world. Taking in science is a must in faith. It is a glorious and Integral part of it. And yet I will get blasted by both sides of fence. I take the good with the bad, and say alright then to both. If they agree that's lovely. If not...it's their opinion and they are entitled to it...I just agree to disagree. Either way,,, spewing hatred to someone does not help anyone. As the old saying says "The higher the Monkey climbs the tree the more you see his ass". It always pays to be nice!

I used to self-deprecate all of time. I would often start a sentence by apologizing before saying what I thought. It would drive db crazy. One day I just stopped. It has been a liberty I gave back to myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5o9jwnM...

Great post mamaemma. My father had a business partner many years ago. She was the most disgusting person we have ever had to deal with. After buying her out of the business we had to rent our building from her for 10 years before she would sell it. When we first took over she began calling her lawyer and coming up with crazy things to accuse us of. She knew money was tight and she was trying to bankrupt us by running up our legal costs. She wanted it to look like we couldn't run the business with out her. One of the main reasons I wish I had read Atlas Shrugged much earlier in life.

I have had trouble with this all my life. I realize the problem is me but I don't think I can/will do much about it. The problem is: I have an opinion on just about every subject that I formed by research and reason. I am passionate about what I believe. When I was young, I stuttered and as I learned how to overcome it, I deleted unnecessary phrases from my speech. I also lack empathy and have no clue what may upset someone else when it would not upset me. If I want to discuss something I really don't know a lot about I may just pick a side and try to defend it. When logic overwhelms my assumed position, I am more than willing to acquiesce but by then the other side may be irate. I know all this is true because my wife of 52 years has told me a million times.

Emotions per se are not bad. They are value judgments, and based on an individual's internalized premises, they can be enjoyable and objective. I objectively feel bad for your awful experience from a vindictive miscreant, Mamaemma, and feel good that you and your daughter have overcome it. Empathy is part of our toolkit for understanding context and interactions with others.

What I have observed from decades of being a "meme hunter" and Martian anthropologist is that qualifiers are used by both kindhearted and cretinous individuals. As children we were taught to be humble, not show off, not incite others' resentment, not be proud or arrogant, to "neither look too good nor talk too wise". As grown-ups we are expected to be self-effacing, apologetic for our very existence, brown-nosing to higher-ups and respectful where respect is not merited. Disgusting, isn't it?

There's nothing wrong with being considerate, thoughtful, courteous, friendly, solicitous, compassionate where merited and reciprocated. It is the social glue, the relational lubricant, for living among other humans. Deliberate rudeness and indifference just beget more of that and make for a cold, hard, unpleasant atmosphere. Someone has to make the first move back toward benevolence without self-deprecation.

Defensive qualifiers serve as cushions to soften the blow when conflicting ideas collide. They serve to get a foot in the door before resistance breaks out. Salesmen use them to soften up a prospect. They are a form of insincerity that I can spot a mile away. They are also a sign of someone not sure of himself, who proceeds tentatively so as not to arouse disapproval. Sad to say, the world runs on popularity contests, rendering people into schemers and deceivers, poseurs and bullies, sycophants and schmoozers. The best way I have found of coping is not to associate with such people.

It was one of Ayn Rand's most powerful insights that one should not live for the approval of others, even though as children we are conditioned to do so, to win nods from parents, teachers, adults and friends. It is a vicious device for social control. Ultimately, though, it is our own approval, by our own rational standards, that is the only thing that counts.

Thank you for your frank and open comments. You are individuals I would be honored to call friends.

Jealousy has always been one of the strongest motivators. Arabs have always dressed their boys in girls' clothes until the age of five so that their neighbors don't cast an evil eye on the child. In our more refined culture, jealousy is the prime motivator for Ellsworth Tooheys who seek to destroy everything that they cannot achieve. Although usually negative, jealousy doesn't have to be. One can be jealous in a positive way, by wanting not only the outcome of one's achievement, but also willing to do what the other person did to achieve it. And, of course, jealousy is one of the best economic catalysts - like George Carlin said in his Ten Commandments skit - "your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays Come All Ye Faithful, you run out and get one too!"

When my son and I were in publishing, we came up with a new concept which zoomed us into the upper echelons of the genre we were involved in. And unlike negative predictions, we stayed there. For some reason this engendered hatred by several other publishers who wrote really nasty stuff about us in trade magazines and other media. My son, being more hot-headed than me, wrote scathing rebuts and we were at war.. I just didn't get it. When I talked the situation over with my wife and son, the wife said, "Forget it, they're just jealous." She was right, of course. It was just that son and me couldn't conceive of such hatred over the success of a competitor. It was the end of our expecting applause for our success and proceeding by not giving a damn about what others said, as long as the public liked our product.

After spending most of my life being " sensitive" to other people disagreeing with me and avoiding verbal conflict, I realized I got this very bad habit from my parents. It is not the only submissive habit I got from them. It took me a very long time to get past most of the silly " just get along" ideas they imbedded in me. Once I realized how my upbringing had impeded me, me became a new person.

Mama,
based upon my readings of Ayn Rand I decide a long time ago to view these type of attacks the way a duck views water. just let it run down your back and wonder why you are so important to someone that they find it necessary to attack you. after you wonder for a minute or so, just get on with your life.

I think we all have had our share of crappy people.
Old dino can remember quite a few he wishes he could have nipped their heads off.

As Joe Friday said, "just the facts, ma'am." If you stick to the facts, you don't need to add a qualifier; it makes you appear unsure of the facts, and weakens your argument. So, it's not your opinion, it's the facts. If the other person can't handle the truth, then we're done here.

Does my 50th "Law" say it for you, too?

http://www.plusaf.com/falklaws.htm#50th

and I often use the tag line, 'imnsho'...
In My Never-So-Humble Opinion...

more accurate for me.
:)

I should add that there really are two types of qualifiers. The discussion here covers the type that is added to people's opinions, viewpoints and moral stands. I agree that qualifiers in those cases should not exist. One either believes in something, or does not. If one is not sure, then perhaps keeping the mouth shut and learning is the best action.
However, it is another case completely to use qualifiers when discussing technical matters. There, it is not a matter of one's moral fiber, but technical knowledge, which is, almost by definition, never complete. Thus, predicating one's position with "in my opinion," for example, is just good manners.

The qualifiers are symptomatic of partial acquiescence to the non-Gulch culture in our lives. I dealt with jealousy often as a kid and teenager. I was not humble at all then. I learned a little humility when I got to college and found a few people with whom I could relate intellectually. Humility is generally overdone in this era.

Hi Mama, jealousy, yes, tons of it. It is the reason I dumped my spouse.

Mamaemma, I can relate.

There are some very miserable people in this world. They are often very deeply upset by something in their own lives (be it their weight, face, something from their childhood, poor financial decisions, etc). Many get through these challenges ok, but some are damaged. I think those are they types you are talking about.

Yes, I've experienced it several times in my life. I've gotten very good at identifying it now. Just in the past week I had a guy I've known for over 20 years put words in my mouth and imply that I said I'd beat my kids. I know why he said it. In his mind, I was winning an argument. We are in different paradigms. What's a mild disagreement to me is a no-holds-barred fight to him. He must win everything because he probably thinks, deep down, that he's a loser. Not my problem anymore. More than anything, it made me sad, not angry. Sad for him.

The internet has been a real boon for cowards and angry people. They can insult and say things they'd never say to somebody's face. I grow tired of some of the stuff I've seen as a result. I think the internet, while I love it, has caused our society to become a lot more callous.

For me...I still love people. Especially children. They aren't f*7cked up yet, usually. But, I keep a very small, very tight group of friends and that's about it. If you're in my circle, I've got your back. If I see any signs of pettiness, you're out. I just no longer have the energy to even get pissed about it - haha...

My IB high school taught me not to use qualifiers, but I try to do it, esp in writing, b/c otherwise people may think I'm not open to other ideas or that I'm just being rude.

Jealousy, is not pat of my thinking or vocabulary. I love to debate the issues at times or type out an idea. I don't understand in this day in age that emotion should come into play unless one is predisposed to such dangerous twisted sociological emotions or aberant psychological fixation.