Oh Those Fracking Wars

Posted by TruthFreedom1 10 years, 11 months ago to Politics
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Should the EPA intervene and protect the health and property rights of the people. They are setting a precedent.
SOURCE URL: http://ecowatch.com/2013/12/24/epa-drinking-water-fracking/


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  • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 11 months ago
    Being a friend who is fighting with the EPA over some ground he owns, I can tell you that the EPA has plenty of power. Power to just about do anything they decide to do.

    My friend purchased 300 acres of ground that was once a part of a gravel pit that had been abandoned decades before the letters EPA were ever put together. To gain access to the majority of his 300 acres there was a low lying gravel road that passed through the edge of the old pit and was not entirely on his ground, but he had a permanent easement to maintain and use it to access his property - for the past 30 years.

    Now he needs to haul several loads of gravel in to repair the road and would like to build the road up a foot in order to improve drainage. But because a treehugger neighbor decides that this would cause increased drying of the bottom of the old pit, he calls the EPA and tells them that my friend is endangering a "wetland". No matter how many drainage culverts my friend offered to put in or even if he didn't build up the road at all, he was banned from even fixing the holes in the existing road. The EPA idiots have proclaimed that even the road is now a wetland since water sits in the holes and on the lowest points of the road during heavy rainy seasons.

    Don't give them anymore power than they already have.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago
      I agree stargeezer. Why are they picking on the little guy when there is so many bigger fish to fry? If your friend has property that is recognized as environmentally sensitive there may be need to take precautions but that should not preclude him from getting the work done. Bottomless culverts etc. are actually good ways to mitigate these issues. As an environmental science student I know there are ways to get around these things on private property. You said the work was a permanent easement on the understanding he maintain the road. Read that easement agreement very closely. there may be a way. A professional Environmental Restorationist &/or engineer may be able to come up with a workable plan to satisfy both parties. If the EPA sees you making an effort by even just consulting an environmental professional that may start the door opening. An extra cost I'm sure your friend won't like but if you can show no damage will come to the wetland as a result then it may be worth it. You mentioned water table which is why I mentioned bottomless culverts. There are ways to mitigate the issues with a wetland and allow your friend to repair his road. Sounds like the neighbor is a real nut case. Work on it as a restoration project and leave enough for him to access the gravel for maintaining the road. Plant extra trees and shrubs which are native to your local wetlands etc. Not knowing more and having never had to deal with the EPA I can't offer more. I wish your friend luck and understand the frustration.
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      • Posted by $ stargeezer 10 years, 11 months ago
        The crazy part is that this is a gravel pit or quarry, nothing there has not been disturbed. Granted it's been in it's present state for some time, but when nothing is native or natural at what point is it stupid. It's like saying a pot hole in the interstate is natural wetland just because it has water in it when it rains. The only water in the gravel pit comes from a spring they hit while digging and runoff from Forrest around the pit. During the summer it's dry as a bone except a small creek that drains off the spring. Not wet enough to be a swamp. In fact there's more water in my pool than in that creek most of the year. You mentioned water table, it's 65-85 feet below surface most places here, at the lowest point in that pit the table is ten feet below his road. Wetlands foliage won't grow there, it's to dry and the 'soil' is coarse sand. Drains like a natural sieve except for his compacted gravel road. Stupid stuff but you can't talk sense to these fools.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago
          Well then I'm not sure what all the fuss is about unless the neighbor who started all this craziness knows someone or has it in for your friend. A lawyer may be required for this one. If the water table is only 10 ft. below the surface the neighbor may be concerned the work might somehow contaminate the water. I assume they are on a well system. have there been water or well issues in the area?
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  • Posted by Rozar 10 years, 11 months ago
    I don't know why some one is down voting things tonight but this is a good topic, or at least can lead to a few good ones.

    This article does suggest that the government can't even accomplish what it's specifically meant to do. We need to find better solutions to protecting property rights than a government that taxes people at the barrel of a gun.

    I like your thinking Truth, welcome to the gulch I hope you don't discourage easily.
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  • Posted by Bandera 10 years, 11 months ago

    Ten Things to Know About Fracking
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    Fracking is under fire, as we know, from those who insist that it does or can cause huge problems to the surrounding environment.

    If this were true then it would be very important. For it’s exactly fracking that is providing America with the gas to keep the lights on for another hundred years, so we’d rather like not to be poisoning ourselves by doing so.

    This piece by an old friend, Peter Glover, gives us a list of the ten things we should all know about fracking:

    # Hydraulic fracking has been around for 60 years. Developments made by U.S. engineers around 2008-9 have simply made the process much more commercially viable.

    # Since fracking was introduced in 1949, over 2 million frack treatments have been pumped without a single documented case of treatments polluting a water aquifer.

    # 90 percent of all gas wells drilled in the United States since 1949 have been fracked.

    # The depth of most shale gas deposits drilled is between 6,000 and 10,000 feet – water aquifers exist at an average depth of 500 feet.

    # Claims of ‘migration’ between the shale gas layers and water aquifers due to fracking or for any other reason, are patently absurd as the gas would have to pass through millions of tons of impermeable rock. If the rock was that porous, neither the water nor the gas would have been there in the first place. (As the hard data in fig. 1 from a study of 15,000 frac treatments in the Barnett Shale Field reveals plainly.)

    I especially like that fifth point made there. The very existence of the layers of water and gas shows that cross contamination isn’t really possible.

    To add my own, entirely personal, supposition: that some to much of the opposition to fracking is due to opposition to fossil fuels altogether rather than to this specific process of extracting them.

    Certainly I think that’s what motivates much of the opposition in Europe for cheap gas supplies would very much undermine the roll out of renewables. Something which a very large number of people seem to be greatly over-invested in. As if it’s a moral crusade rather than just a way to provide us with the energy we need and desire.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago
      Good points made, and I agree. that being said there is a chance of Aquifer?Groundwater contamination closer to the surface. I don't want Fracking to end... Better and cleaner than most forms of Fossil Fuels, but strict methods and oversight must be in place to mitigate any possibility of contamination. Even the experts agree that it is possible:
      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2...
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 10 years, 11 months ago
    Coincidence is not correlation.
    Where there's natural gas, there's often water, and vice versa. That little trick of igniting the hose was doable (and has been done) long before fracking was invented.

    I wish I cared enough to scan the article and refute it point by point.

    However, I did forward a link to it via twitter to my Senator (his name is Inhofe) so he can address its assertions.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 11 months ago
      Interesting... I really seem to have hit a nerve. First I must say I am not a freak against fracking, or forestry, or mining or any form of resource extraction. It is necessary for a commodity based petro-dollar market such as ours. That being said I believe that corporate influence over government policy is detrimental to not just the environment but to our health as people. While not a totally new technology for the purposes it is now being used it is fairly new. This video leans more towards your obvious thoughts on the matter. He even said their study showed no real evidence that fracking was causing ground water damage. But he added a caveat and said that enough isn't being done to monitor and test sites being fracked and that there is a possibility that near surface fluids could get into the ground water/aquafirs. I was asking for your (or anyone's opinion).
      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2...
      This article discusses some of the perceived problems with fracking including that it is hard to get sound information from the secretive corporations who engage in the activity.
      http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2...
      I'm not looking for a fight... Just opinion and some debate. And here is a link to a book review http://www.polisci.ccsu.edu/trieb/InfluG...
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