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Oath Keepers and BLM Again--Oath Keepers Muster in Oregon to Prevent 139-Year-Old Gold Mines from Being Seized by BLM

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 7 months ago to Government
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Somebody's going to pull a trigger at one of these, then all Hell's going to break out. Why does the Government over-reach continue? Is it hubris, arrogance, or simple stupidity? Where is the government that's to protect individual and property rights?

"Oath Keepers from around the country have begun to set up camp in the Galice Mining District near Merlin, OR in preparation for what could become a standoff between local miners and the Bureau of Land Management after BLM officials ordered the miners to evacuate the premises by April 25."

"As armed Oath Keepers began to gather at the site on Tuesday, SWAT vehicles were seen staging nearby, raising fears that a Bundy ranch style standoff might take place."

And the Bundy's just put on a week long remembrance of their stand-off with the Oath Keepers at their ranch.
SOURCE URL: http://benswann.com/oath-keepers-rally-in-oregon-to-prevent-139-year-old-gold-mines-from-being-seized-by-blm/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=nl


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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 7 months ago
    Yes indeed, here we go again. Bundy was only the last in a long string of such confrontations on private rights on public lands.

    However, there are many errors in the article on the history of mining claims. The Sugar Pine Mining Claim was not "set aside" by Congress just for local miners. The claim or claims as either placer or lode claims would have been entered under the 1872 Mining Law that provides for individuals to stake claims upon their own cognizance and provides a private right in subsurface mineral if as a lode, or placer value if within the creek bed gravels. This applies to many precious or base metal natural resources generally called hard rock mining. And includes the right to use the surface within the claim. Duh.

    The staking and filing of the claims (at the time at the County Courthouse, the BLM did not get into the act until decades, decades later) establishes a private right in those mineral resources. The article says the BLM is claiming that because ownership changed hands that such "grandfathered rights" are no longer valid. While it may be true that a rogue BLM individual is trying to say that, it is not official BLM policy. Since when did a sale of a private right negate that private right under the common law? I know this because I am in the middle of permitting a gold exploration project on Forest Service "administered" public lands and they are under strict guidelines and know it, and know that we know it, that permitting of mineral activity is a non-discretionary issue. Meaning, it is a recognized private right that they cannot negate by fiat decision. Unless one of them tries to go rogue. And that would be a different matter.

    As to the reporting in the article, there is no such thing as a "claims community regulatory system". Mining regulations are subject to "applicable" State and federal regulations. Note that I highlight "applicable". And here is the crux of the matter that the miners should be aware of. Under the peculiar situation called "dual sovereignty" resource producers on the public lands are subject to both State and fed jurisdictions with those that invoke the Supremacy Clause to say that if the feds regulations are tougher, i.e. exceed the States regulations on the same matter, than the feds would prevail. That is, unless and until the States exert their sovereignty over the public lands within their respective boundaries. But, as we have seen with the nearly every 20 year kabooki ritual in the western States, they don't have the backbone to do what they could. They are far too long beholden to the federal government.

    This establishment of private mineral rights and the right to use the surface to access those minerals is something that a 1955 Surface Resources Act could not negate. And there is no mechanism for a specific intervention by the Department of the Interior to do so.

    One thing the article did not mention, and that is critical towards interpreting this situation, is whether the claims are patented or not. The patenting process was a mechanism provided in the original 1872 Mining Law that converted the surface extent of the claim or claims to private fee title lands. And most claims, especially this old, that could stand the Proof of Mineral process required were most certainly patented. If this is the case, these lands are private and the BLM has NO authority at all. Now, in 1993, Congress attempted to gut the 1872 Mining Law (as amended over the years) by declaring a moratorium on the patenting process. This did not gut mineral claims from creating a private mineral right, but disallowed anymore public land to be converted to private land under this mechanism. Just think about it, the towns of Vail, Silverton, Sun Valley, Virginia City, Prescott and hundreds more in the west would not exist as they are based upon private land originally created under the 1872 Mining Law.

    Finally, there is no way in hell that there are 90 million ounces of gold in this district. I used to work at the Goldstrike Mine in Nevada, which is still the largest gold producing mine in the world and it has produced 40 million ounces over the last 25 years.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
      Flotus, thanks for the info. Interesting discussion of the applicability of the laws. Apparently, the miners are relying on the 55 Act.
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      • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 7 months ago
        Indeed. And with that I think they are barking up the wrong tree.

        Earlier, Jer asked about the status of the efforts in the courts. Hell of a good question, as this would have to be handled extremely carefully, with full knowledge of jurisdictions and truly applicable laws. Which of course, gets extremely expensive and all the advocacy groups on both sides get involved and usually the ones that purport to be on your side are the ones that sell you down the river. In this case, probably the Rogue River. Ha! Advocacy groups, even for private rights and "conservative" principles have found this can be one hell of a lucrative cottage industry. Solve the issue with a simple constitutional precedent setting decision? Oh, god, no, they would be out of business!

        This may just blow over as the BLM gets bad publicity, or it could go all the way up the system. I think(?) Oregon would go through the 11th Circuit, not a good prospect, that is what has screwed many an effort here in Nevada as the Supreme Court just turns it away and a bad decision stands.

        A better way may be a 5th Amendment takings claim in Federal Claims Court. This is an avenue in the federal system that Ronald Reagan setup back in the 80's. There have been some successes with that approach even in Nevada, but man, prepare for years of torture and bankruptcy.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
          You're right. The costs and those involved make a court fight more dangerous than hard rock mining.
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          • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 7 months ago
            Good lord, you describe my entire career livelihood. 30+ years in gold, silver, copper, and coal mines, I have seen many a hazard. Almost to 100% you can anticipate and mitigate these risks.

            Compare that with the courts or the "permitting" process. I mentioned I am currently involved in permitting some exploration activity on FS lands. It is like entering the belly of the beast itself. The agendas, the biases, the obstructiveness, the obfuscation, and then couple that with utter incompetence, sidestepping, making sure their tenure is not at risk - and then I wonder when the ugly face of brute force will appear. It has been close.

            I think I remember an Ayn Rand quote: A society is doomed when the producers need permission to produce from bureaucrats who produce nothing. Sigh.
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            • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
              Yes, a big part of mine too. Underground and surface. Copper-Project Engineering, Occidental Oil Shale-Project Mgt,, Copper, Gold, Silver Moly, Aluminum, Coal, Oil & Gas,-Constr Mgt and Proj Mgt. Done a little personal Gold prospecting and vacuum dredging, but nothing like what you're doing. Only got to see one gold vein in green quartz in all that time. Most of the rest was flake and flour.

              I've had to work with state, EPA, DoE, and all the SHA's, but never FS or BLM. But everyone I know that has relates nightmare after nightmare. But you're right on the safety keep the air flowing and bar the roof.
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              • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 7 months ago
                Absolutely cool. A fellow resource producer. Great to know you!

                On another vein (ouch), I have met Cliven Bundy several times in the past. I have a distinct memory of him in 1994 at the Jefferson Canyon road opening event, when asked why he was participating in this rebellious activity, he was exclaiming in an excited voice: Why, we are producers, that is why!"
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  • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago
    I was reading some more on this and the BLM is trying to pull an even more questionable action in this case, as they are demanding that the miners remove all equipment AND buildings - despite the fact that they have been mining this area since before the BLM was even created. Additionally, they have no court order justifying their position, nor have they answered the miners petitions clarifying which specific acts they are accused of violating.

    This is a power grab - plain and simple.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
      Yes and the miners are relying on an actual act of congress from sometime in the 50's. The BLM rate right up there with DEA, ATF, and EPA. I'll never really understand the logic of a BLM existing.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 7 months ago
        Probably because government is built on power - not logic. ;)

        If government adhered to logic, we wouldn't be $20 Trillion in debt or ever have elected 90%+ of the politicians currently in office.
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  • Posted by kevinw 9 years, 7 months ago
    Hello Zenphany,
    Thanks for posting this, I hadn't seen anything on it. After the Bundy standoff I told my family "it didn't start this time, but this is how it will start". Are we running out of time to prepare? Have we completely run out of time to prevent it?
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago
    Same as it ever was.
    What kept the feudal barons in power? Land ownership. It is land ownership that created the Royals and kept the rest as serfs unless they had a trade. It's easy to see how the people in DC are evolving into a new royalty, with special privileges and powers and the seizing of land is needed if they are to manage our lives.
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  • Posted by Jer 9 years, 7 months ago
    What is the status of the efforts in courts?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago
      Hello Jer, so far the miners have initiated the BLM appeals process. The BLM doesn't have any court documents yet, have only issued directives with no reference to specific law requiring their action. There only response so far is that even with the appeal process begun, they have to vacate the property.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 7 months ago
    Bureaucracies tend to assume the power of a deity, assuming the right to punish or reward without justification. On an objective level, it does look like a legal resolution is possible, if the BLM obeys the rules set down in Federal law, but then that wouldn't demonstrate the power of the state, and would actually require them backing down after having set up this stupid confrontation.

    It may well be that the 1955 act would require Congressional legislative action to allow the BLM to enforce regulation of grandfathered claims. Given the Republican control of that body, the administration isn't about to open that can of worms. The question is whether or not the government is seriously weighing if a violent confrontation could be pictured as "domestic terrorism" before deciding how strongly to act.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 7 months ago
    Not only does this sound like Ruby Ridge and Waco again, I could easily see this turning into the non-fiction version of D'Anconia collapsing his own mines.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago
    Nothing new here. The government also broke their promise to pay equivalent property tax on seized state land that wasn't used to build railroads. Called O&C for Oregon and California land. But the real issue is there is no such thing as private property rights anymore. It's like a lease in one way. All you do is buy the right to pay tax on the land. Title is held in places like Salem, OR and Washington DC
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