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Who Would Move to a Real Gulch?

Posted by LaissezFaire 9 years, 8 months ago to The Gulch: General
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Just curious, if there really were a secretive place similar to Galt's Gulch, free from government intervention, who would really move there? In my case, because the rest of my loved ones don't seek such a setting, I probably would not, although it is very applealing.


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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would go. I am tired of always looking over my shoulder for some government person thats going to take what I earn or put me away for doing some innocent thing that violates one of their rules- like texting on a cell phone while stopped at a traffic light
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  • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would. Even if it meant taking one of those blue-collar jobs, like lineman.
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    • Posted by BradSnipes1 9 years, 8 months ago
      I would never stop doing what I love to do to be a member of a Galt's Gulch Community.
      Community members should be free to do the work that they are trained for.
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      • Posted by Temlakos 9 years, 8 months ago
        That's all very well. Even so, a "situation" (as in "situations wanted") takes two: employ*ee* and employ*er*.

        Recall Galt's rundown of who was in the employ of Richard McNamara, the utility contractor for the Gulch. Example: "an economics professor who could no longer find employment at a university because he taught one can get out only what one has put in." Well, that professor couldn't find university employment in the Gulch because the Gulch wasn't big enough, as a community--at least, not yet--to support a university with a department of economics. So that professor had to work as a lineman until one day the universities would be back in saner hands.

        Similarly, Dagny Taggart's brakeman, whom we first saw whistling a new tune that Richard Halley composed in the Gulch, worked as a grease monkey for Ellis Wyatt, to earn money for private lessons with Richard Halley in music.
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  • Posted by joy-123 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would go, but not just because there would be no government intervention, but more because I would be living among like-minded people who value the individual and have a strong code of ethics.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
      Welcome to Atlantis, Joy!
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      • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 9 years, 8 months ago
        I believe Atlantis had no sickness, no war. In the real world, we have both.
        One of the things our Constitution clearly protects is the safety of our citizens from foreign aggressors, as well as domestic. Since no money made in the Gulch can be spent outside the Gulch, how do we support the very government/military whose duty it is to protect us? Without a real Ragnar, I fail to see how the members of a true Galt's Gulch could protect themselves from any invasion.
        I'm not trying to throw cold water on the idea, but there are some real world issues that would need to be dealt with, unlike the situation in Ayn Rand's fictional utopia. Any ideas?
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        • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
          It would have to be a secretive place; people outside would not know of it, therefore would not want to invade. But, if there were an invasion, it would likely be defended by a militia style military (every household armed - that is how Switzerland steered clear of Nazi invation).
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          • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 8 months ago
            "Secretive" is probably not possible these days when the spies are everywhere. We've all seen google and other mapsites with geo-views. Thus we consider our homestead as our Gulch, which is already "real", but has room for only a few allies; that's real. Problem as always is that the Rulers remain in charge, busily being our enemies and with all the big war-tools.

            'Tis our Switzerland, except that Gov doesn't provide our tools of self-defense!
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 8 months ago
          We have a number of individuals who have agreed to be the Gulch's militia should a physical Gulch be made manifest.

          As for sickness, this is more of an issue, although progress has been made on that front as well.

          As for "staying off the radar", unless we have some people with net worths > $100 million, I honestly don't think that the government bureaucracy is efficient enough to even bother keeping track of us.
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  • Posted by jimslag 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would go in a heartbeat, no question about it. The overlords are getting worse and I am tired of all the BS they are trying. Now they want to regulate my grilling, what will they think of next to rule over us?
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 9 years, 8 months ago
    My wife and I have been looking into relocating outside the country. Our motivation is current lawmaking. At this point, we are in research mode. We want to live in a place that won't force medical treatments on children (as California is close to doing). If there's a warm sandy beach included - I'm game.
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    • Posted by BradSnipes1 9 years, 8 months ago
      I found a 117,000 acre ranch in Australia selling for $10,000,000. A Texan Home Energy System would provide for all of the energy and water needs of a community and also produce water for irrigation an livestock.
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      • Posted by $ Maree 9 years, 8 months ago
        Gidday cobber, just check on the rainfall situation of your 'ranch' (did you mean a station? ) before you up sticks for this side of the black stump.
        Love to suck the sav with you but i drove just 40 minutes out of town yesterday and 3 of the 4 rivers are 100'/. Dry. So thats no fish, for starters. Not meaning to piss in your beer, just saying its not all dinky di here.
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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 8 months ago
    I've considered moving to Alaska, North or South Western Montana, or even New Zealand. Having a spouse put the clamps on those ideas, or I'd already be gone.

    Let me know when and where, and hopefully I'll still be around to enjoy. I don't need a job anymore, but I'd be willing to donate my time and expertise to anything I am capable of doing anymore.....
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  • Posted by blackswan 9 years, 8 months ago
    Forsaking loved ones is an issue, but if they're not willing to stop drinking the kool aid, and live a productive life, I'll leave them to it. We all have choices, and I refuse to subsidize parasitism in any way whatever, especially with my own life. So, if they don't come with me, there will be a long good-bye.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
    If you enter the parameters that the Gulch is somewhere that is ideologically plausible, physically secure and technologically sophisticated and that it is possible to interact from the Gulch to the 'outside world'...I would be there.

    I just have trouble believing that such a place exists. You can be physically secure (ie from invasion) within the US, but you cannot stop the ACA, EPA, NSA, IRS and other acronyms from wrecking their will upon you. You can be high tech if wealthy and/or talented people are willing to invest in the infrastructure (for payment back with interest over time, but still the infrastructure has to be upfront for survival).

    I would personally need to be able to interact with Schuyler House via VPN every day and travel to the office in CA regularly to help keep the company running. (If I could get a handful of key people in the company, who are already Objectivists, to come to the Gulch with me then that model changes...but at least one of them is not going to budge until the tsunami has washed cold water to his waist level.)

    I do have concerns as to the practicality of many of the people on this list. Having co-founded a company from a rather anarchistic ideological starting point, I know how well that does not work, even with honest and intelligent people in your subset of the population. The only discussions that I recall on jails and criminal law in this virtual Gulch have not impressed me as practical. Who would do this essential job?

    So, bottom line: theoretically yes; practically no.

    Jan
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    • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 8 months ago
      so it's my guess that you're the founder of Schuyler
      mentioned on their website. . congrats on the 20th!

      Jan, it's people like you who keep this nation going! -- j

      p.s. and security in the Gulch would start as a private
      thing, with law evolving through consensus based on
      leadership like Judge Napolitano . . . yes?

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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
        Thank you for the look up. Co-founder, actually. A pretty good med tech (me) and a world class programmer (Wm) met in a martial arts class (!), became friends, and double-dared each other to bootstrap a company based on the intersection of their expertise.

        We make the finest LIS in the world.

        Jan
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        • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 8 months ago
          I'm proud to know you. . may the bluebird of happiness
          fly in your sunroof on this beautiful day, Jan!!! -- j

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          • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
            How about the Great Bird of the Galaxy? I have met some incredible people here in the Gulch, yourself amongst them.

            I never responded to your comment on law enforcement in the Gulch. Back when this blog was first beginning, someone posed the question, "Who makes bricks in the Gulch?" My LE example was along those lines: We have a great philosophy, and we are quite certain that if we got a chance to put it into effect we could show the world what free people engaged in free enterprise could do. What I do not feel we have is a picture of a functioning society.

            Let me put it this way: The original Employee Manual of my company had a single sentence: Do all the good stuff; don't do any of the bad stuff. The EM is now 50 or so pages long - because even intelligent and honest people do not follow that rule. I am trying to warn people that we need a clever plan that will allow us to run a town, not just an ideology that can conquer the world.

            Jan
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            • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 8 months ago
              the manual has grown with your company, its complexity,
              and with regulations . . . I bet. . as would our social
              contract in the Gulch, I bet.
              we start with -- maybe -- Jefferson's original declaration,
              saying "life, liberty and property," granted by the
              nature of reality. . then, in the constitution, we add
              the bill of rights without requiring that they be
              amendments . . . and we include legislative approval
              of regulations, etc.
              in short, we learn from the u.s. experience, and
              build on it.
              Napolitano, since we don't have Narragansett, might
              be our man. -- yes? -- j

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              • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 8 months ago
                Yes. Should there not be some discussion of whether we retain English Common Law? Mercantile Law? How much of the 'wheel' do we want to reinvent? How tabla rasa do we want to be?

                The complex stuff we have a pretty good handle on, I think. It is the simple things that are getting overlooked. I am a geeky person, not a legal or organizational savant, but my spidy sense says that if we get a location for the Gulch and then go there without having the pieces in place, we will do a grand bellywhopper. Maybe we can pick ourselves up and run again, but I would rather not have the experience. (Wm and I made every mistake possible in starting SH...and I think we may have invented a couple of new ones...but I can learn.)

                Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me, johnpe1.

                Jan
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                • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 8 months ago
                  You Are Fun, Jan! . I'm no student of law, but there
                  *are* those here -- I've heard that our system is derived
                  from english common law with criminal and civil and
                  crimes and torts;;; I even took business law before
                  graduation, once. . did OK. . but the best law, it
                  seems to me, ratifies what mom and dad told me
                  was right, when I was growing up.
                  but I was lucky;; I had a mom and dad who raised
                  me the best they could.

                  as an engineer, I would design the "law system"
                  to (1) keep honest people honest, and (2) put those
                  away who did not respond to (1). . the two degrees
                  of proof -- beyond reasonable doubt and preponderance,
                  or whatever they are -- seem to make sense, when
                  you contrast the "sentences" in each realm.

                  so, we need a good judge. . a freedom judge like
                  Napolitano, I'd say.

                  yes? -- j

                  p.s. have you read the poem I just posted? . first wife
                  and I used to call them "pomes" for a joke. . I typed them
                  on an old woodstock typewriter and tore up any which
                  had mistakes. . tedious, since I'm not a perfect typist.
                  woodstock::: https://images.search.yahoo.com/images/v...

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  • Posted by Wags 9 years, 8 months ago
    I have been living as close as possible on my Homestead in New Hampshire. NH is the "Live Free or Die" state. Live out side of a small town in the Lakes Region on a self-reliant property with plenty of seclusion. No one asking or looking to take what I make.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 8 months ago
    I am way too old. However, Had it come along at the height of my powers, no question. One of my sons who was an avid, adventurous, and creative business man would have jumped at the chance.
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  • Posted by upston 9 years, 8 months ago
    When a tsunami arrives first the water recedes, some head to the beach to collect stranded fish. Those with a brain RUN for the hills. The Gulch is the only option and you are the only hope you short sighted families and friends have. Be persuasive or perish.
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  • Posted by SaltyDog 9 years, 8 months ago
    With all due respect, the idea of a group of like minded individuals banding together to live in peace has been tried many times. Sometimes the leaders were nuts-Jonestown and the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas leap immediately to mind-but the sanity of the leaders is completely beside the point. The issue is, however, that should the word spread that an enclave can be formed where the residents tell government, "Look...we'll leave you alone if you'll just leave us alone", millions of us, I'm sure, would do the same. Certainly the producers of our society would consider it at the very least. Just ask Randy Weaver about Ruby Ridge. He and his family committed no crimes that I'm aware of; certainly no crime that would warrant FBI sharpshooters initiating a gunfight. Further, once the massacre had begun, I'm hard pressed to understand how an FBI sniper, who presumably followed the ROE, felt that an unarmed woman holding an infant was such an immediate threat to his team that BOTH needed to be neutralized.

    As you might guess, even after this many years, I remain outraged by this event.
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    • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 8 months ago
      I lived for a while within reach of Branch Davidian, which is well outside Waco. Of course there was no real reason for the government attack on that complex, which destroyed the big main house and most of it's residents. Supposedly the goons were after it's leader for something relative to firearms ownership, but heck, he visited Waco regularly and played in a band there. If he had been a dangerous criminal (he wasn't) they could have nabbed him anytime.

      Today there is just a small area with headstones of some of the victims, and little else. Sad.
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  • Posted by H6163741 9 years, 8 months ago
    In a heartbeat. It's nearly impossible to find good schools in the 'real world.' And I'm sick to death of involuntarily donating my hard earned money to 'causes' that I completely disagree with.
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 9 years, 8 months ago
    Count my daughter and I in. I had a dream I was in the Gulch once and I was a farmer. Apparently I have a suppressed subconscious desire to be a farmer. Hey, Gulchers gotta have something to eat!
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would only go to a Gulch populated with true Objectivist. Otherwise it would just be new place same garbage.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      True point. There would have to be some sort of pledge similar to Galt's "I swear by my life and love of it..." pledge to make it work. Also, a judicial system to keep things civil within.
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      • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 8 months ago
        This government owns and operates the so-called judicial system. In a Gulch it runs to binding arbitration if the disputing parties so agree, and otherwise the perhaps-damaged party becomes judge, jury, and executioner. The other side of that coin would be balanced by our sense of "reasonable". One day I'd hope to get to writing a full article on all that.
        There are answers for about everything, but they really need to be spelled out!
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  • Posted by cjferraris 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would move there in a heartbeat.. But then again, I'm in my 50s, my kids are grown. And the more I'm around people, the more I'm getting tired of them. I know I can still produce and would rather have 10 more years with real liberty than 30 years of what we have today..
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 9 years, 8 months ago
    I would go as would most of my immediate family. However, I have some concerns regarding security. In a world dominated by collectivist regimes the gulch would be a target if its existence were to be known and a secret of that magnitude is difficult to maintain. Objectivists are known for thinking things through and some form of defense would be necessary to protect the gulch. Would this be some form of voluntary military or would the citizens rely on technology for protection? One of the few things that government does well is provide for the common defense. Would the gulch have the equivalent of a defense department? And if so, how would it be funded?
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