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Practical option for going on strike

Posted by lookdad 9 years, 8 months ago to Economics
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We've all talked about what it would be like to go on strike, or what a true Galt's Gulch would look like. Here's an idea from an email conversation with some friends of mine:

"If there was a national tax revolt, we might tie [the Fed's] hands. They can plan until the cows come home, but if taxpayers said, "NO!" with our cash instead of our mouths and stopped paying taxes, most everything would grind to a halt - and not just [the specific gov atrocity we were talking about]. Huge shutdown. There would be panic among the government to get things rolling again. At that point the people have leverage. But that would require a unified opposition. We better not hold our breath on that one."

That led me to think: are there other ways that we can greatly reduce tax revenue (even if they raised taxes) within the current code?

• Is there a way for everyone to file tax extensions indefinitely without actually paying money? Technically, we'd "agree that we owe" XX amount of money, but give them a note of debt and keep the cash set aside in our bank accounts.

• Can we create an underground economy, where bartering is the only accepted currency? Obviously gold was used in the gulch, but technically gold is just an acceptable standard... If I trade my eggs for someone else's milk, then no sales tax is applicable. AND, if almost everything I "buy" is from bartering, I can lower my income drastically and give the IRS less.

• Or do you think we could actually get a nationwide tax strike off the ground?


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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 8 months ago
    I am a tax professional and have seen the IRS (and state agencies') collections department at work. They have no problem seizing bank accounts, garnishing wages, or putting liens on any real estate you own until they get whatever money they consider that you owe them.

    This is one reason I say that we're headed for the status of a banana republic. One of the things the countries fitting that description all have in common is that the kinds of assets tax authorities know how to grab, simply don't exist there. Nearly all land titles are informal, because any land that was owned "on the books" was seized decades ago. Similarly, there are few bank accounts, and most workers are paid in cash. And most businesses operate illegally, because getting the many required licenses would mean paying so much in bribes that the owner would go broke first.

    I'm not going to jeopardize my own career by advocating that people move their assets or activities "off the books," but I will point out that historically, this is what everyone does when taxes and government spending rise so high that most on-the-books jobs can't be sustained any longer. Thus if this were to happen, then the inhabitants of a "Gulch"-like community in that country would effectively be the same as everyone else, except that they moved off the books first and so may have managed to keep more of their assets than others in the population did.
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    • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 8 months ago
      My brother, who was a CPA, once told me that the IRS is the only entity that can seize assets without due process. Is that true?
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      • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 8 months ago
        There are a variety of agencies, both state and federal, that can seize property without a court proceeding first.

        In the cases I'm most familiar with (IRS and California's Franchise Tax Board) there are a variety of "due process rights" you do have, if you cooperate with the agency. For instance, you can negotiate monthly payment plans with them or (in a few cases) even have them accept only part of what you owe (though the ads you'll hear from lawyers advertising these things are very exaggerated). In cases where you can show poverty, they may postpone indefinitely trying to collect.

        But if they decide you're a resister or you're stonewalling them, they'll just grab everything and make you go to court to get any of it back.

        So there is or is not "due process," depending mostly on what you call "due process." The government certainly doesn't have to prove its case first, which would be my definition of the term.

        The big change in the last few years is that there's now a lot of automated computer-matching of forms. If someone reports that they paid you money, and the agency doesn't find it on your tax return, they'll send you an automated "notice of proposed change." *Don't* ignore these notices, or you lose opportunities to argue about them. (And a lot of the things the computer "discovers" actually are wrong and can easily be reversed, if you respond in time.)
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        • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 8 months ago
          Last year the IRS decided my husbands patients payments were mostly in the form of checks and credit cards, and they felt more should have been cash payments, so they did an investigation. After much payment to the CPA, the IRS said they were wrong. Stupid! People never pay in cash.
          Thanks for the info. At the very least in the eyes of the IRs, the citizen is guilty and its up to the citizen to prove innocence
          Edit: clarity
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  • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 8 months ago
    One can apply for an extension, but all taxes due have to be paid on time even if the filing date is extended.

    Barter is subject to income taxes. When I receive value in a barter, it is considered income by the IRS.

    When Producers go on strike, most people call it "retirement." ;-)
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  • Posted by cjferraris 9 years, 8 months ago
    If you really want reform in government, just stop withholding altogether. You should get paid in cash, and then right next to the payroll office, have a tax collector so that everyone has to pay right then. With paycheck deducting, the money we have to fork over every month is mainly painless. With people having to pay $300/$400, or more every paycheck, see how long it is before there is a tax revolt..
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    • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago
      I've long advocated a bill that would require the elimination of any withholding-based taxes. When people individually have to look at their paycheck and feel the pain of sending away 1/3 or more of their money every two weeks to the government, they'll petition to change things. The devious problem with withholding is that because you never see the money in the first place, your brain doesn't take ownership of it and as a result you never feel the real pain of parting with it.
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 8 months ago
      Better yet, eliminate all taxes except a consumption tax. Right now if you add up ALL the taxes we pay it comes up to an average of about 45%, counting all the taxes that are buried in the cost of goods. Eliminate the hidden tax and the direct cost of good will decrease. So that candy bar that now costs $0.79 at WallyWorld drops to about $0.65. HOWEVER, at the point of sale you get charged an additional $0.30, to make the total come to $0.95. If all taxes were overt and not hidden a tax revolt would be a lot easier to start.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
    Additionally, I'm trying to get off the grid (solar panels, well water, chickens, bees, garden, etc) - which means I won't need to pay sales tax on any of those (yet). So, even if bartering is scary, self-sufficiency is a quick way to a "consumer's strike" (a phrase coined by freedomforall, which I like).
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  • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 8 months ago
    In my opinion, the only effective peaceful method of protest or resistance is a consumer's strike. that would hit both government and manipulative corporations where it hurts, in the revenue stream.
    That would also have to include a plan for moving all liquid assets out of the federal banking system and into another mode of payment.
    Switching to consumption at local small businesses using local script instead of legal tender currency aka federal reserve notes would also be required.

    Unfortunately it would further wreck the economy as a side effect.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      Local currency is an interesting idea, which would basically facilitate bartering/local business. I'm sure it wouldn't take long for that local tender to be regulated by the Feds...
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 9 years, 8 months ago
    How would you go about not paying the withholding tax taken from you before you even see it, and the employers portion?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      Not sure - I'm self employed, so I don't have anything withheld (and it's on me to pay everything). I know you can slightly change what is withheld, but I don't know how much.

      I guess completely going on strike would only be possible if you're not paying throughout the year.
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      • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
        In addition - this thread is more of a question than anything. A tax revolt is one option - how else do we stop feeding the Fed?
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        • Posted by $ blarman 9 years, 8 months ago
          They are so drunk with their own power and there is noone in Congress with enough spine to do anything, I fear that we have passed the point of no return. I fear that the only way to return to sanity is through a complete meltdown and rebirth of the economy. And that's pretty terrifying because it would cause a global meltdown as well.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 8 months ago
    OK, here's what I have been doing for the last few years: I have substantial investments, well above the average. Not that I am a super investing guru, I just jumped in when everyone had run for the exits. I also sold a house in CA in 2007 after owning it for 7 years, and then another just last year after owning it for just over 2 years. Therefore, I have taken the cap gain exemption on the houses...non-taxed income. I own my current home free and clear. I have a rental that gives me positive cash flow, but a paper loss due to depreciation. I have also been "on strike" for four years. Since I have reduced my need for money to survive, I only pull out of the investments what I need to buy food, utilities, property tax, etc. If I make money in the account, I do it as tax efficient as possible. The bottom line is that I can pull enough out to survive and still pay little, if any income tax. Starve the beast by being tax efficient in your income.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 8 months ago
    Any tax revolt, in order to work, would need a very large group, and would need to include some big money earners, perhaps a few well-known corporations, as well. Anyone in the Gulch know someone who can organize such an enterprise? A tax revolt is certainly more practical than a Galt-type strike, but it would take a Galt-type person to get it going. Preferably one who has already established his/her bona-fides and is well known to the public. Where are you John or Jeanne?
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 8 months ago
    Maybe you should consider that the bulk of the working population has just thrown their hand up and will do what ever they can to just keep clear of government employees. of course the non-working part of our population LOVE things as they are. That should be a word to the wise.
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  • Posted by $ Maree 9 years, 8 months ago
    I will have been in strike 8 years next month. I now merely work an office job on the lowest pay band.
    So my investments are also paying tax at that band.
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  • Posted by H6163741 9 years, 8 months ago
    I think this the probably the only way left to save the U.S. before it goes communist. But how do you get enough people to go along with it to make a difference? (And not get thrown in jail...). Or a ridiculously easy option: What if we all renounced our citizenships and came back as illegal aliens?
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 8 months ago
    under-withholding is one thing which I have practiced
    for decades. . the tea party movement is probably
    the starting point for a tax revolt, don't you think? -- j

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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 8 months ago
    I like your ideas, the last an underground economy the best. If someone doesn't have something to trade, then trade services or products for cash. Sell nothing, trade everything. How would we protect our assets from a government gone wild, bury them in the backyard?
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  • Posted by Flootus5 9 years, 8 months ago
    I remember it was estimated back in the 90's that if 10% of taxpayers refused to pay, the whole house of cards would tumble down. Which is of course why they devised how to deduct it from your paycheck before you even get your pay.

    But for the self-employed it could get interesting. But then they would yank all business licenses, etc.

    Ah, but then the barter system. Bartering is a sensitive nerve issue with the IRS and there is a lot more of it and always has been than generally known. There is a really fun old 1959 Debbie Reynolds - Tony Randall movie about the IRS and a bartering individual:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mating_...
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  • Posted by LibertyBelle 9 years, 8 months ago
    Well, this does not sound exciting, but I believe
    the time for a "Mind Strike" is not yet. There is
    still time to try to convert people to Objectivism,or
    at least a belief in individual rights. (Of course,
    the movie of "Atlas Shrugged" was something of
    a disappointment; it seems that Ayn Rand is
    turning over in her grave. But after I went out
    after seeing Part I, a man said something like,
    "Makes you want to read the book." Evidently,
    he hadn't).
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 8 months ago
    You just nailed the reasons why the government party prefers an income tax over an end user consumption tax. Ergo sum income tax is left wing fascist socialist in nature supporting the position that government is superior to citizens. A vote at the cash register when purchasing something or another supports the opposite viewpoint - citizen superiority to government.

    Easy to understand if you pick up the sign that says center and move it from the center of the left to the true center which is the constitution.

    You'll find zero Democrats or Republicans in the true center much less to the right...Far as I know only Libertarians and the true right wing extremists the anarchists in that direction. The rest of the extremists are found on the left starting with the ones who demand our votes,.
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  • Posted by tkstone 9 years, 8 months ago
    Isn't this the approach the agorists push, an underground economy?
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      I hadn't heard of the term until your comment, but checked it out. Overall, it does sound like that - and Wikipedia even cites Atlas Shrugged as Rand's presentation of the idea. Strangely, Wiki associates it with left-wing libertarianism, which I don't necessarily see. (Libertarianism, yes; Lefties, no)
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  • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 8 months ago
    Tax Resistance going on for some years. The way for most is simply DON'T file that 1040. "There IS NO Law"! Signing that 1040 gives the goons an open doorway right thru the 4th Amendment. I've not filed for about 25 years, no problem.

    Perhaps start with this: http://no-ruler.net/3413/no-1040-starvin...

    Then if you really want to dig into it, there's have much to chose from:
    http://no-ruler.net/?s=Tax+strike%22

    Repeat... don't file that 1040. Don't even THINK of tax "evasion" by filing anything false.

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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      Do you have any CPA sources saying this is legal? I do understand that we have a right against reasonable search and seizure, but it seems to me that if employers or clients file 1099s or W2s for me, then the IRS would consider it reasonable to search.
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      • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 8 months ago
        You didn't come close to following the links given.

        About "legal", try this:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5lJtuEK...

        I have much more, but it's your tax money and your time. Waste it anyway you wish.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
          Actually, I followed both of the links, and some of the subsequent links, but morality101.net no longer exists, and the others seem to be opinion posts with uncited facts on the same blog. If I'm going to not file because I'm under the stance that I'm not breaking the law, I'd prefer to have solid reasons. I'd love for it to be true, but if I can't back it up, I can't assume it to be true.

          I watched the video, and it definitely piques my interest. I'll try to watch the full documentary - but so far it doesn't show me that there truly is no law requiring us to file taxes. But - again - I will do more research, because if this is true then that is a banner I'll be waving.
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          • Posted by DeanStriker 9 years, 8 months ago
            Morality101.net most certainly exists -- I just recheck the link in your comment, and it works. It's /blog/ section is also there, but all has been copied into no-ruler.net already, and the root web stuff will be next. Then I will be closing that entire domain, but it'll take time -- perhaps considerable!

            Beyond that, there are numerous other of Marcy's videos on the same case, which I have linked in the past but somehow they are no longer valid links. Back in those days I had not yet learned about "embed". Marcy is a web-friend, and I will contact her and see if she still has those so I can reconstruct.

            Meanwhile, her videos are the direct result of her being a juror on that case, so that could in itself could be found. Otherwise, it's folly to try to prove a "nothing"!

            I have not filed a 1040 in for about 25 years now, without repercussion. It didn't begin as resistance, but it was back at a time when I couldn't afford the accountant, much less to pay taxes! However, it has long since been a part of my actions toward getting rid of government.

            Consider the "fear" of yourself along with the vast majority of American slaves!
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  • Posted by gafisher 9 years, 8 months ago
    Study the Fair Tax - http://www.FairTax.org - a very well thought-out national retail consumption tax which replaces the federal income tax (and several others) and which begins by repealing the 16th Amendment (the one which overruled the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against exactly such taxes). There's a huge disinformation campaign to discredit the Fair Tax; don't judge the Fair Tax until you've read _at least_ the information on the website.
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  • Posted by Kilroy 9 years, 8 months ago
    How to strike:
    I think the first thing to is get organized, then decide on a day to stay away from work and do it. If that doesn't work, stay away for a week. This won't work unless a very large number of people do it of course.

    How to withhold taxes:
    Go to your employer HR person and increase your exemptions to 10 or 20.

    Just a couple of thoughts
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  • Posted by $ CBJ 9 years, 8 months ago
    " . . . if taxpayers said, "NO!" with our cash instead of our mouths and stopped paying taxes, most everything would grind to a halt . . ."

    Including the government's electronic money-printing machine? I think it would go into overdrive.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      It would indeed - but that money would quickly become worthless. I guess if this were to happen, those involved in the strike would need to preemptively move their money into truly valuable resources. I'm not even speaking of gold or silver - you can't eat those, and I wouldn't trade food for those in the event of a crash. I'm speaking of physical goods (food, livestock, knowledge/skills, land, etc).
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  • Posted by Dennis55 9 years, 8 months ago
    I have probably daydreamed about a tax strike to the point of obsession.
    I do not favor a consumer strike because it's possible to hurt hard working producers before the Fed can feel the equivalent of no sales tax coming in. In this case the first best thing you can do NOW is be more selective about where you spend-local, family owned producers.
    Where the Fed has us over a barrel is we stood by while they instituted the withholding from our paychecks. We essentially mail them a huge amount of money every payday-generally having our employers-or our accountants spending resources and acting as an unpaid collection agency. Many have said that if our monthly income deduction came in the form of a bill that we write a check for every month-like our mortgage, utilities etch, there would be a tax revolt tomorrow.
    Our power today is for 90,000,000 hard working honest producers to all go to our HR department on Monday and change your payroll deduction to a number that would insure little to no withholding. One would shut off the income stream over night. I'm not an attorney but I don't think is refusal to pay taxes--it's paying them the way they refund us. They hold onto our money for a year then we jump through ridiculous hoops trying to get some of it back. I do NOT suggest anything illegal. Just pay the taxes differently and on your terms. The point being we have the power. It's our dough! But it would take everyone and an organized commitment. They will continue to ram the moochers and looters down our throat as long as we act like whipped pups and keep sending them our money.
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    • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 8 months ago
      I have 5 employees that I pay every week, and I have suggested that they reduce their withholding. I suggest that they put the money in a savings account instead of letting the government use their money interest free. But not one has done it
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 8 months ago
    his first premis "everything the god made is good" is but wishful thinking since there is no god. another politician with limited thinking capacity.
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    • Posted by 9 years, 8 months ago
      I think you're on the wrong thread... Though, while you're here - I disagree with you. I believe in God, and I believe I have just as much thinking capacity as anyone. I think it takes just as much faith to be an atheist as it does to be a theist. I know I might be in the minority on an Ayn Rand forum, but since it's a forum that encourages objectivist logic, I figure I don't need to keep silent. :)

      However, as far as using the argument "everything that God made is good" politically, I think he's shooting himself in the foot. I think there are plenty of arguments for the legalization of marijuana using logic that everyone agrees on. (I don't make it a practice to use the Bible to debate with atheists, because that would be akin to someone using a Harry Potter book to convince me there's truly a Hogwarts.)
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