Galt's Gulch

Stifling Entrepreneurism Early

Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago to Philosophy
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Little girl wants to sell rather than beg. Madison Root said "I don't want to beg! I would rather work for something than beg." Poor kid, she hasn't yet learned that the Socialist Democrats in Oregon want Zombie voters. They do not want free thinkers like Madison Root in their society. Where have I paraphrased that before?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/03/ore...

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  • Posted by strugatsky 11 years ago
    What a way to take a story and twist it! Another example and a lesson of never to talk to the Media because the Media will make a story that it wants to make, with truth being completely irrelevant and often in the way. I have no doubt that the reporter knew the facts and chose to ignore them. The farmers markets throughout the country work on essentially the same principles everywhere: the vendor pays for a space (leases it, in effect) and is allowed by the market organizer and by their contract to sell only the specific products that the vendor produces himself. The spaces are usually highly valued and there is often waiting list to get them. She may need money for her braces, but another vendor may need money for his kid's braces - he can't and shouldn't just move over because Madison wants his space. A vendor, even if he wants to, cannot take Madison's product and sell it for her - the vendor signed a contract that he can sell only his own produce. This case has nothing to do with government, free markets, etc., it is simply a reporter making a story where there is none. The market is a private enterprise, no different from a mall or your house. Would it be OK for an adorable girl to set up her business in a mall without paying for the space, or perhaps in your front yard?
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
      He could buy it from her and sell it as his own.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 11 years ago
        No, another vendor cannot buy it from her and sell as his own. That is strictly against farmers market rules and for a good reason - otherwise, you'll have people re-selling WalMart tomatoes as home grown. To reiterate - there is no story worth of a story here. Just a reporter trying to make a name, kind of like a war on taxi drivers, architects, etc.
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        • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago
          Nothing to see here. Don't mind the Marxist behind the curtain. The regulations are there for the good of the people..
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          • Posted by strugatsky 11 years ago
            Let's be fair, that is factually correct. Farmers market regulations are not government regulations, but made by the market committee as any other private corporation. Some markets are privately owned, some are non-profit in name, some belong to a city or a town, but the rules are essentially the same across the country. I happen to be a vendor at about 10 markets and have looked at their operations in several states, so I do know something on this subject. There are some governmental regulations that are worth complaining about, but this one is truly a private enterprise enforcing it's rules and fees structure. On moral grounds and, as a business owner, on practical grounds, I certainly want the government out of my life, but this case is about private contractual arrangements. It does not help the Objectivist case to go off into blind alleys and to deviate from facts. I am curious as to why the reporter created this case in the first place. The facts are simple and any market manager can explain this in five minutes. The reporter, clearly, had a different object in mind than the facts and the truth. Was this just a good sounding story that can make a name for the reporter? Or was this an attempt to place the farmers market system into the negative light? The farmers markets have grown tremendously in the last several years. These are some of the last vestiges of capitalism in the US and are mostly cash-based. It was obvious to me even several years ago that a campaign will be launched to slow them down or shut them off completely. The exact same situation had happened in the Soviet Union in 1922-24, under the New Economic Policy which allowed small farm enterprises the freedom to exist. They were so successful that they threatened the fundamental structure of socialism and they were exterminated, with millions of people executed or sent to the Gulags. The flourishing of today's markets is a direct affront to nationalization of all our industries through taxation and regulation. Will see if other devices will be introduced to destroy the markets. One such device has already been implemented - the introduction of food stamps into the farmers markets. I have no doubt that other devices and campaigns are to follow.
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            • Posted by Rocky_Road 11 years ago
              You were making a good case, and could have easily stopped with a 'private property' argument!

              You convinced me, that the young girl was simply trespassing, and needed to sell her wares at a different location.

              This reporter could have made the same case, if this young girl was using my front yard to sell her product. When did I lose my property rights? When she needed braces?
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            • Posted by j_IR1776wg 11 years ago
              I took a look at the reporter's (Dan Cassuto) background at http://www.katu.com/about/people/reporte.... His record includes thousands of interviews plus many awards. It doesn't seem he had to make a name for himself. by inventing this story. While I appreciate and stand with you in your defense of private property, I believe stories of this type force us to re-examine our principles and premises and, hence, are worthwhile news coverage.
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              • Posted by strugatsky 11 years ago
                Now that I had some free time, I took at look at Dan Cassuto's stories. He is an active young fellow who seems to generate stories whether they exist or not. Seemingly of progressive/socialist background (Columbia U. does not honor non-socialists; neither does ABC). Some of his stories remind me of the various newspaper-led "wars" as well described in the Fountainhead. He is probably too young and naive to have a specific agenda against the farmers market system as I was originally afraid someone would, but in this and other cases, he picked non-stories and blown them into media frenzies. On his Facebook, he mentioned that the girl has already sold $2,500 worth of mistletoe - more $ than some vendors there sell in a month; and his "story" has been carried by multiple media outlets with royalties to ABC.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
    Couldn't one of the vendors cut a deal with her to let her sell her mistletoe out of their concession, and either take a tiny cut or exchange it for her labor?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
    God bless her little heart. I wonder how much she's charging for mistletoe? Shipping from Oregon won't be cheap, but I might be able to afford a sprig... (not that it'll do me any good ::mutter::...)
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    • Posted by khalling 11 years ago
      you catch bees with honey, hiraghm
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
        Anecdote time! Everybody blame khalling!

        When I was young, I was afraid of bees. I mean... afraid. Wasps... any stinging insects. (you should have heard me whine even after I killed it when I found a scorpion in my bathroom a few weeks ago).

        One summer day we were at my dad's construction site, and I noticed what looked like a bee in the short-sleeve of my mom's blouse.
        I announced it, and she practically begged me to get it out. I was too afraid. My sister stepped in, and flicked it out with a finger saying, "it was only a sweat bee, mom".

        My father came off the scaffold, scowling at me. I cannot remember whatever it was he said to me, but it was the first (and last) time I felt him truly ashamed of me... I do remember that he saw a wasp nearby, and with his horny, calloused hands clapped it and crushed it in one swift motion.

        I spent the rest of that summer finding bees and wasps and crushing them with my hands the same way (without getting stung). The fear turned to hatred, but the shame never left.

        Honey, like the cake, is a lie. I would think an objectivist would be opposed to flattery and courtship ploys.

        Besides, my problem isn't that I'm not nice enough to women; my problem is that when I find women I like and can respect, I demonstrate it by my actions; rather than begin treating them like shit that's lucky to be in my presence (think Howard Roark and John Galt).
        Or Jaimie Waring -
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgFg3nsXX...
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0su_1Ghax...

        Then there's half the John Wayne/Maureen O'Hara movies where she's trying to go toe-to-toe with him, like in The Quiet Man where he shows his affection and respect for her by dragging her halfway across Ireland to throw her at her brother's feet in annulment of their marriage.

        Yeah, women really like honey. But Dagny didn't marry Eddie Willers.

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        • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years ago
          I think very few women wish to be dominated like that; although I'm sure some do. Those old movies do not reflect the nature of modern women's expectations, nor men's. Those old movies are just fantasy. No doubt many men and women fantasize about behavior they would not enjoy in reality. There is a fine line between insincere flattery and sincere appreciation. "Courtship ploys" infers insincerity also. You are quite right these would be seen right through by any women of character, but sincerity is the key. Be sincere, fun and respectful, use your sense of humor and women will enjoy your company. Courtship, if sincere, is like anticipation and can be very compelling. Nobody loves a wet blanket or a rude boar. It costs nothing to be courteous and gracious and the benefits are manifold. Best of luck!
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
            I disagree. From what I've seen of modern women, they're attracted to the most arrogant, loudmouthed, self-important PoSes available.

            "Be sincere, fun and respectful, use your sense of humor and women will enjoy your company."
            Remember my commitment oath thread?
            THAT is what gets me locked into the friendzone. That's how I've acted toward women I want, and my reward was always to watch them walk off arm in arm with some assh*.

            (warning, language warning - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XDb0nxS... )
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            • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years ago
              Your video example demonstrates the fact through Karen’s comments regarding Jane’s actions, that all women do not share the same views or preferences. You need to find a new circle of friends. You need to find a Karen. One cannot be a pushover or overbearing. The balance must be struck. There are users on both sides. One cannot act the part one must be the part. If a woman does not appreciate a nice guy, she is not the woman you want. As Karen points out there are normal people and then there are the users; in this case she is largely speaking of extreme feminists. One thing: Women do not find desperation attractive, and do find attractive, men who other women find attractive. Being seen with other women piques there interest… if you know what I mean. Let’s say you are attending a party and there is a woman you are interested in. Do not hover over her or smother her. Be polite but find the women at the party who you may not be interested in but enjoy their company. If you are able to make them smile and enjoy your company, other women will notice. You need not be Don Juan, just be upbeat and humorous. Sometimes what you are looking for is right under your nose, but you are not seeing them because you are focused on someone else.
              I met my wife (of over thirty happy years) and asked her out after a few hours of being nice to her best friend. Her friend wanted me, and I was polite and enjoyed the attention, but it was my wife that wanted what her girlfriend was going after, but she was too shy. And it was I who thought her girlfriend was too aggressive, too desperate. When I asked my future wife for her phone number and not her girlfriend’s, she was surprised and caught off balance. Her girlfriend had been throwing herself at me for hours but I surprised both of them. I was not Mr. Nice Guy, but I was entertaining polite and humorous. Her girlfriend was not happy, but she ended up being happy for her friend and ended up being bridesmaid. It can happen. Being the bad boy will likely only get you the bad girls… sure they want the bad boys, like we want the bad girls, but you don’t marry them. Remember what you are looking for is unlikely to beat your door down, but they are out there. Go get em!
              Well, for what it is worth, that is my advice. It worked for me. I hope women haven’t changed that much.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKK8qft6...
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              • Posted by plusaf 11 years ago
                Spot on! I sensed that if I'd "chased" my wife, she'd have run away, so I deliberately played "hard to get" (but always available) so she wouldn't run away.
                We celebrated our 23rd anniversary a few months back. It took me one previous wife and about 65 women I dated after #1 and I split for me to grow up and realize what I wanted and needed in a mate, and when I found the combination, I was not about to let her get away.

                Hi, try joining groups or clubs where you're interested in the subject of the group, not just another opportunity to get laid. You'll be more likely to find someone with similar interests and attitudes who might be interested in you, too.

                At our wedding, there were three people who could have performed the ceremony (one was in doubtful health, so it was nice to have a Plan B and a Plan C. Plan B was a woman I'd met in a discussion group and had lusted after but she wasn't interested in me, and Plan C was a woman I'd met in another group and had spent some rewarding time in bed with quite a while before I met my wife-to-be.

                Stop looking for perfection, hang out with people that are fun to be with and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

                Happy shopping!
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              • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
                "One thing: Women do not find desperation attractive"

                Women are attracted to power. That's why so many of them end up with abusive assholes. They mistake the bravado of an asshole for the self-assurance of a powerful man.
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                • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years ago
                  Good afternoon Hiraghm,
                  I quite agree. This is no doubt partially reflected in the high divorce rate... you have superior power... keep your eyes out for one that appreciates it, or one who has already learned from the mistake you referenced.

                  By the way, nice job yesterday. Your efforts were not wasted, though your adversary was not the beneficiary. Some people cannot grasp the immorality of theft when they justify it with altruistic nonsense. Somehow they justify it because they are not holding the gun to your head... as if government force is a lesser evil...
                  “Rationalization is a process of not perceiving reality, but of attempting to make reality fit one’s emotions.”
                  ― Ayn Rand, Philosophy: Who Needs It?

                  Sometimes I believe I can demolish such premises with a single sentence and do. Yet, it will not penetrate the mind of one not ready to see...
                  Regards,
                  O.A.
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  • Posted by geneligman 11 years ago
    Yes, Oregon has a population demographic that is quite familiar throughout the US (and perhaps the world). The city dwellers, in this case Portland Metro, Eugene, Salem, and Corvallis are loopy lefty and anti-progress, which means anti-man. (of course, they call themselves progressives ::snickers::) In the less populated rural areas the people can be quite conservative, though conservatism isn't all it's cracked up to be either. Still, the rural folks are much more of the rugged individualistic types rather than the huggy collectivist types, which means they generally like to see someone bootstrapping their way to new braces. They love to see initiative and productiveness. I live in SW Washington, just across the river from Portland. It is a very confused place, Portland.
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    • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years ago
      Ohhhh I'm conservative and I'm okay, I work all night and I sleep all day...
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mL7n5mEmX...
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      • Posted by geneligman 11 years ago
        Conservative is OK, depending on what you mean by it. If you mean that you value your property and your right to own it, good. If you mean that you think government should have a very limited role in our lives, even better. If you mean that I should be able to make decisions for myself and my business, excellent. But if you mean that an idea is good because it is an old idea, much like the "progressives" like an idea simply because it is new, then not so good. An idea should be examined and classified as good or bad because of its intrinsic merit (keeping in mind the proper context, or course), not because of whether it was dreamed up in ancient times or in modern times. So if you are a conservative, and you are OK, and you are posting on this site, you likely have all the best reasons going for you.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years ago
    As I pointed out in the other thread on this topic, she was on private property. We applaud her enterprise, of course, but a significant fact was left out of the Fox News report which colored the presentation. It was not "the social democrats of Oregon" who stopped her. It was as if she had been in a shopping mall.

    Apparently, the confusion is rooted in the beggars being allowed to infringe on the property rights of the park owners in the name of "free speech." That error does originate in the politics of Portland. Again, my wife and I considered moving to Portland, but the beggars drove us away.
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