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Do the math

Posted by H6163741 9 years, 9 months ago to Economics
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So, it's tax time again, and again I am furious. Apparently, the federal and California governments believe that we make too much money. Unfortunately, 'too much money' is not enough to buy a house in Los Angeles, so we get royally screwed every April 15th. We are a family of three; my husband claims 1 on his W4, and I claim 0 AND have extra money taken out! I would love to go Galt, but I really do like my job. (I get to fight the looters!). I am seriously wondering if I should asking company to reduce my pay. Does anyone know the math formula? Is there some 'magic number' that will keep us from feeding the looters, but not so much that I become one?


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  • Posted by cranedragon 9 years, 9 months ago
    Actually, the governments you list don't think you make too much money; they think you keep too much money, and left to your own devices, you wouldn't direct it to the support of the people, places, and things that they want to see supported [mainly their staff, of course, but also their cronies and the looters that will give them a job when they finally time out of the system]. So, they remedy your misunderstandings and oversights, and your selfish insistence on spending your earnings on things of relative unimportance in their Weltanschauung [groceries, say, or rent...?]

    But, moving right along from the irrelevant digression to your question, the best suggestions are the ones below -- start your own business, take yourself out of the employee/required monthly/quarterly tax withholding morass, and build your own small Atlantis.
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  • Posted by khalling 9 years, 9 months ago
    One possibility is to consider asking your company to move you to part time and pay you as an independent contractor instead. I don 't know how that would affect your benefits but it might free up your schedule, allow you to consult to other companies, and you 'd be eligible for taking Expenses against your income. Uncle sam dearly wants you to stayon a regular paycheck.

    expenses
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    • Posted by airfredd22 9 years, 9 months ago
      By definition, as an independent contractor she would no longer qualify for benefits as the iRS has strict definitions to qualify as a contractor.

      There are however a number of writeoffs that could be taken if contractor status is established. As an example, if you have at least 2 vehicles financed, by incorporating and placing the vehicles in the corporation, the interest would be deductable like the old days over 25 years ago. Since the first 3 years of auto financing is mostly interest, this could be a serious deduction.

      I would be happy to provide further information.

      Fred Speckmann
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 9 months ago
    I hate to give government anything. I left california for nevada to avoid state income taxes. As to federal taxes you can stop getting a paycheck and start your own business. Borrow from it and live off that and then sell the business and pay capital gains tax 23.8% now.
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  • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 9 months ago
    Tell me about your job. I'd like to hear about fighting the looters. It sounds great
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      I'm an insurance claims adjuster. When people get into a car accident (or fall in a store, etc), they think they've won the lottery. And there are plenty of shady attorneys out there who think they can (and often do) make a lot of money 'assisting' them.
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      • Posted by Mamaemma 9 years, 9 months ago
        I have had people come in my office to get me to document that they broke several teeth in a fall at a store, and I proceed to tell them that these teeth were rotted, and that's why they broke, and the store should not pay to fix these teeth, which I then tell the adjuster. I don't get many of those patients anymore!
        Once I had a lawyer offer to send me patients if I would say what he wanted. He said I could charge up to $2000 for X-rays and exam (normal fee at that time was about $105).
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      • Posted by davidmcnab 9 years, 9 months ago
        This might be a bit naive of me regarding your industry, but I'm speculating you may have the skill set to pursue the really big looters. The kind who torch a failing company building to get their 8 figures insurance, or get a similar payout for a fictitious 'medical condition' from a food or pharmaceutical product. Insurance companies would pay well for a bit of extra evidence to pull a jury over the line in their favour.
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        • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
          Thank you for the suggestion. The guy who sits next to me does handle a lot of arson claims, etc. I do some carbon monoxide claims (a big area for fraud) in addition to premises and auto liability. I think the medical claims field is pretty specialized. Considering I have 25 years experience in my area, I will probably stick with that. Better one looter at a time than none!
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
    Come to Florida, so that you at least don't have to pay state income taxes. BTW, I am starting to render to Caesar today myself, and Galt's Gulch is a convenient distraction.
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    • Posted by sumitch 9 years, 9 months ago
      Consider Texas. No state income taxes here either. There are plenty of jobs here, Maybe your company will give you a transfer here doing the same job.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 9 months ago
        My current shrug job is as a chemical, biomedical, and materials engineering professor at Florida Tech, a private, non-tenure-granting university. When Atlantis is ready, I will do again (I was part owner of two small tech companies.), instead of teach. Until then, I have a great shrug job.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
    Given the parameters you state: living in CA, raising a family, liking your job and hence not wanting to move, I have some general ideas.

    Spend money on things that have rebates. If you spend money on an electric car, you get a looter-rebate...but it is actually a refund of some of the money that has been taken away from you in taxes.

    Buy a house, even if there is a commute. I am not a tax savant, but I have always heard that a house is a tax advantage. If there is some way you can arrange for at least some of your house and car to be a business expense, do so.

    Once you have a house, get solar with batteries. (This is in the first category - but you need the house first.)

    There are definite breaks in payscale, but often these are also linked to corporate medical coverage (which you do not want to loose). Back in the 1980's, when there were more steps in the payscale, I found a spot that allowed me to keep my medical coverage but was below the IRS break point. Working 34 hours a week, I made the same amount as my co-workers who worked 40 hours, when taxes were taken into account.

    Good luck.

    Jan
    PS I live about 15 min NW of Magic Mountain...
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      Thanks, Jan. I actually get health insurance from my husband's employer, so that's not a problem. Unfortunately, in my field, it's pretty much s 40+ hrs/week gig. I have been in the business about 20 years, and I have never seen a part time position.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
        You are trapped between a rock of prior decisions and a hard place of not wanting to make changes that will negatively impact your current lifestyle - so any improvement you can make would seem to be marginal.

        Your original question was 'what was the magic number'. If that is the only option left for you, hire a good tax adviser and do what you can.

        Jan
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 9 months ago
    It's not just the math or even the math for one year. Case in point. In my old job a federal circuit Judge, the 9th in California, decided the instructions issued by the IRS for travel per diem were wrong and bade them change and go back three years to collect the difference. This after we had faithfully and as exactly as possible followed the rules. Three years of difference was finally paid with no fines because I used a credit card to make up the shortfall. Interest on the card was cheaper than government fines and interest on the fines etc.

    Some where in there I began drawing social security. Again followed the rules as exactly as I could figure them out which wasn't easy. Different every year.

    A few months after paying off the back due was completed I got a check for around $100 more than what I had paid in. This was for not using the correct formula and paying too much on the social security share of income tax! I don't know what it will be this year for taxes. It's never the same and there is no crystal ball for planning ahead.

    The point is the government giveth and taketh and you never know except one thing. Sign the bottom of that form and you commit a felony.

    Nowadays no signature is required it's just complete the annual form and send it in. There is NO WAY anyone can sign the bottom of that form and be truthful.

    The purpose of income tax is not raising revenue. it's all about controlling the population especially those who work for a living. Another reason to be against the flat tax or any additional Value Subtracted taxes (the ones Pelosillynni calls VAT which is already embedded. All income tax is a control tool or weapon.

    End User Consumption tax is the other way around.

    However returning to your question I planned ahead, bought a boat and moved across the borders as part of my formula.

    There is no magic number except not voting for the Government Party. Live in the USSA you are doomed to frustration so treat it like the game it is and cure frustration by doing it in Roman Numerals, sending the return and the check in two envelopes, or stuffing those teeny marshmellows up your nose and seeing how far they will go when you sneeze.

    I'll put it another way. If they were interested in efficiency and raising money WHY do they pay me their money and have me give it back some months later? Why? Cause they like to harass citizens.

    Practically speaking move out of California or Michigan or Massachusetts to a non income tax state except Washington. That cuts out the State part of the problem. Moving to those states which also lowered my true cost of living was like a big aspirin. Then move on a boat and out of a house. Big deduction in living expenses.

    Worked for me as I was not chained to a location in my employment.

    Works Great for retirement too!

    Sorry too long and wordy but it's a matter of choosing options and being willing to give up a lot of things that for me I find I didn't need anyway.
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  • Posted by fivedollargold 9 years, 9 months ago
    Agree with CG. Don't ask for less pay. $5Au suggests that you look for a job you like in a state with lower taxes. It won't help you with Uncle Sam, but just about any state will tax you less than the Golden State. (It really pains Fivedollargold to say that.)
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  • Posted by Icon 9 years, 9 months ago
    Move to a different state. The longer you stay there, the more moochers will be added to the rolls, and the higher your taxes will rise, to pay for all of the freebies, and high salaries of government workers, until your income puts you under the poverty line. Then you will be to broke to leave.
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  • Posted by sumitch 9 years, 9 months ago
    I'm curious what the term "looters" means in the context that I see in here. As best as I can tell it refers to one that has not or is not paying their way.
    As regards the taxes, depending on your income, you will be paying at least 50% of your wages to state and federal agencies. There has to be something really wonderful about California to pay that much to just live there, That number doesn't consider sales and use taxes which I'm sure adds another 10% or so.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 9 months ago
    I decided last June to get out of the stock market and now have several thousand in my savings account.
    Haven't done my taxes yet.
    I fully expect to get my clock cleaned.
    I don't wanna do the math! I don't wanna do the math!
    Spreading the wealth around! Wheee!
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  • Posted by waytodude 9 years, 9 months ago
    I know how you feel. What I did is not for everyone I bought land started raising cattle. In Missouri I'm able to buy most everything tax free for the business I get to deprecate nearly everything. When it gets close to the end of year I see you accountant and buy what ever it takes to not pay which helps the busy. I'm so happy now and not living in California anymore.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 9 months ago
    If you claim insufficient exemptions, the W/H tables make us withhold more and you get some back at the end of the year, which is needlessly sending extra money to govt and getting it back at the end of the year. There's no way to avoid death or taxes, but marginal rates are not 100%. When you earn more you get to (woot) keep half or more of it.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 9 months ago
      I'd much rather err in that direction -- it's better than paying interest and penalties for underpayment.
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      • Posted by airfredd22 9 years, 9 months ago
        That's rediculous. It requires financial discipline to claim the aprropriate dependents and if you are not disciplined than just put the difference of your real dependents and what you claim now in an interest bearing account. I agree with the writer who said that you are just giving the state and fed's extra money without getting any interets during the year.
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        • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 9 months ago
          It's only "ridiculous" until you get surprised by a tax bill bigger than you expected. The tax code is being tinkered with all the time, and of course changes in your income situation can create surprises too.
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  • Posted by ewv 9 years, 9 months ago
    It looks like you are talking about withholding in particular, not just total taxes paid. Regardless of exemptions you can specify the amount they withhold from your salary for taxes. If too little is withheld then you have to pay the difference on April 15, but that is better than the government taking out more than you owe all year without paying interest.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 9 months ago
    hey -- make all that you can, and then go Galt --
    and work hard to stop 'em in your spare time (how,
    as a retiree I think, did I ever find time to go to work?)....... -- j

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  • Posted by Ibecame 9 years, 8 months ago
    Don't reduce your Pay!!!!!!!! Just learn how to pay less taxes, do it legally and keep good records. You need to put together a plan to reduce your taxes. No I'm not kidding. Try this link: http://markjkohler.com/products/what-you.... My tax attorney has a book out called "What your CPA isn't Telling You". He has it in Paper, .pdf, and on audio. This is the only book on taxes that I know of that is actually fun to read or listen to.
    My disclaimer: Mark is my tax attorney, I am not an attorney or CPA. I do not get anything for referring this to you other than that I will be happy if it helps you. Good Luck
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  • Posted by helmsman5 9 years, 9 months ago
    Thought OS was dumb the first time, but it has grown on me.. cavalier attitude, wrapping the fish, and remodeling initiative! Still makes me smile. Regards.
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  • Posted by DennisKebrdle 9 years, 9 months ago
    why have them withold so much extra? makes no sense for them to have a free loan of your funds. doesn't make sense if you're witholding at the payroll rates that youre so short. problem we find is that income under 100K esp in the 60K range is not much extra beyond freebees. who's going to back those reductions needed? surely not big retailers, the casinos, or the lottery stations lets pass out more $$$ and tax it back with phoney crap
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