Astronaut poop will be used as a radiation shield on a trip to Mars

Posted by Zenphamy 9 years, 9 months ago to Technology
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Can you imagine the results of a micrometiorite strike? Most times when someone is found covering their walls with their own poop, they generally wind up in the closest Mental Ward.
SOURCE URL: http://www.geek.com/news/astronaut-poop-will-be-used-as-a-radiation-shield-on-a-trip-to-mars-1541695/


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  • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 9 months ago
    Just one comment on the radiation protection scheme. The article states that the food packets lining the craft (the food that later turns into poop) do not become radioactive; they just block the radiation. From my studies of nuclear physics, and my involvement in the design and installation of radiation shielding for nuclear reactors, a substance does one of two things when it is bombarded with radiation: (1) it can reflect the radiation; (2) it can absorb the radiation, eventually becoming radioactive. It cannot "block" radiation without either reflecting it or absorbing it. It is almost impossible to reflect energetic radiation particles that have mass. They are easy to absorb, using non-radioactive mass as the absorber. Eventually that mass becomes radioactive. So, eventually, the food, the urine, and the poop would become radioactive. Water cannot become radioactive, because it will block only radioactive particles with virtually zero mass. Urine, however, can, because the chemicals other than water that constitute it can absorb radiation, eventually becoming radioactive.
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    • Posted by iroseland 9 years, 9 months ago
      I have been thinking about this problem on and off for a while. The folks at planetary resources are planning to mine asteroids. The first stop will be water. A good choice considering its really amazingly expensive to transport it into orbit. Once they are good at water mining the price of water in orbit will fall. This will make water available for a lot of uses, including using it for shielding.
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      • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
        Fun fact: to ship 1,000 gallons of water from the asteroid belt, the surface of Mars, or from Earth which is the cheapest origin?

        The surface of Mars. The required delta-V is the lowest thus the energy cost is the least. Due to the way orbital mechanics works (among other factors), asteroid mining won't be a going concern until we are already on Mars. One of, if not *the*, dominating factors in an economical asteroid mining industry is your mass-ratio. Launching a mining expedition to, for example, Ceres from Earth would cost over 50x as much as doing it from Mars. That doesn't include regulatory and environmental costs on Earth - just the basic mass required to do it. Propellant is fairly cheap to produce on Mars.

        Mars is the cheapest place to send goods from whether you consider the belt, a planetary surface, orbit, or a lunar surface - excluding dilithium crystal -driven antimatter warp cores, impulse drive, and warp drives of course. ;)

        Of course as water is effectively abundant on Mars it won't likely be a huge market for them initially. Only once we were to begin wholesale terraforming would martians be interested in large quantities of water.

        Honestly the shielding bugaboo is funding hype. Spend a year traveling between Mars and Earth (these guys' 510 days in flight is suspect right from the onset) via a basic low-energy conjunction mission and you won't even hit 40 rem of total exposure (assuming a solar flare event which is an average of the three worst solar flares in history hits you enroute) . An average trans-atlantic airline pilot, at 5 trips/week, receives about a rem per year. Since this alleged mission can happen once every 15 years or so you're not looking at much exposure, really.

        Even if you suffered that entire year's worth of radiation in a single dose you wouldn't get sick from it.

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    • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
      But that is a long way down the biochemical road. The poop and food are complex organic molecules - the first things that will happen to them is that some of the molecular bonds will break. Keep the water on the sunside of the capsule on the way out and the food on the Ortside (which is nice to say, instead of just 'outside'). Then replace the water with dehydrated poop for the trip back. You are right, in that eventually organic material can become radioactive...but it tends to go through a 'grey slime' stage first.

      Jan
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 9 years, 9 months ago
    Poop bags.. it's genius!
    P.U! Open a window!!
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    • Posted by 9 years, 9 months ago
      It just seems to kind of diminish the glory factor.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 9 years, 9 months ago
        Gives new meaning to "glory hole"? Glory to Gory quicker than you can say Red Mars?

        IMO it's a boondoggle - by making it a fly-by mission (unless it's to determine the effects of human exposure to lack of microgravity and the protective Van Allen belt) it would be better served to send a robotic mission - more economical, less logistical nightmares, etc.

        If they go - then put boots on the ground, bring back samples, etc... One, being in the 38% Grav of Mars will counteract some of the space travel atrophy, and Two, use that "used food shielding material" instead as the propellant to get out of Mars's gravity well on the trip home. That... or find a way to react it off the iron oxide-heavy soil to compost it into something usable to grow something in. Or better - at the same time, farm the FeO2 for the O2 content...

        Of course, the purists will decry "terraforming Mars", but why not? It would give us sustainability (and eventually, industry) on another planet.
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        • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
          Interestingly, actually landing on the planet and spending a year or more there would be less complex.

          Regarding air and water, you send an advance craft which takes hydrogen feedstock and begins stockpiling air, water, and fuel. You have a habitat and return craft fully stocked for the return trip before you ever leave Earth. And we don't need to use the soil to do it - old technology allows us to convert the CO2 in the atmosphere and the hydrogen we take into fuel, oxygen, and water.

          Sure, it's proven, basic, "boring", and reliable; but that is what you want.
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        • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 9 months ago
          A fly-by would be a "proof of concept" flight. It would prove that we can get there and back. The next stage is to land and establish a base, then start ferrying colonists. Elon Musk, I believe, has colonists in training now and is actively recruiting.
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          • Posted by Technocracy 9 years, 9 months ago
            I would be willing to bet any sum that there would be an overabundance of volunteers for a one way trip. If nothing else it would speed development tremendously.
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            • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 9 months ago
              With the proper remote control system, a ship could ferry passengers to Mars, return with no humans on board but a supply of whatever is mineable on Mars, leave the cargo in orbit around earth for an orbital factory to process, and return to Mars with another batch of colonists. Elon Musk is likely working on this, since he's all about reusable rockets.
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              • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
                Cycles are a wonderful idea in theory, not so much in practice. Further, why burn nearly the same amount of fuel to get from Mars to a cycler as it does to get from Mars to Earth orbit, as opposed to a direct return without the added complexity and risk of trajectory and velocity matching and the risks which go with it? Not to mention the risks of fuel transfer & longer transit times.
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  • Posted by samrigel 9 years, 9 months ago
    Poop for radiation protection, Marie Harf's jobs for Radical Islamist so they will stop their murderous rampage, Obama's selfie stick .............someone PLEASE wake me up from this nightmare!!
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  • Posted by wiggys 9 years, 9 months ago
    they will never return. chances are with zero gravity their bodies will atrophy.
    also, what a horrible waste of money.
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    • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
      This too is a simple problem. A tethered capsule in flight can provide enough partial gravity to mimic the body's lower-gravity adaptation process. Combine this with the facts regarding known long-term effects of humans in 0G (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valeri_Poly... for starters) and it isn't a significant issue.

      And yes, spending 501 days in space just to fly by Mars is a waste - go to Mars, don't just look at it.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 9 months ago
    What should they name the vehicle? Words always seem to sound better in a foreign language. I suggest "fligender schiesse." (My German spelling may not be correct) translates to "Flying shit." The German words have a sort of poetic lilt to them.
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  • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
    These people obviously don't know what they're doing. The water shield doesn't "go away" - it stands as a recyclable resource. Fecal matter will be composted, not stored as shielding.

    Even the basic idea behind their alleged mission is fundamentally flawed. There is no point to a flyby of Mars. The vast majority of the cost is in development and production of the booster to get there in the first place. Gravitational slingshots are, movies aside, the more risky route than direct launch. It has even less value than a "Flags and footprints" mission.

    Frankly this looks like an attempt to take advantage of government funding rather than genuine attempt to further the goal of getting to Mars. Another clue they don't have the actual knowledge and are merely striving for attention and funding is their reliance on cosmic rays and solar flares as their particular siren/boogeymen. These are two of the easiest problems to solve for a Martian trip - primarily because they have been soften exaggerated that without looking into the details you'd think they are insurmountable.

    The reality of it is that most of the technology and techniques in a trip to Mars will be fairly "boring". This is good, and what you really want. The more crazy things people try to claim in their alleged plan the more likely it is just an attempt at more funding. Crazy may sound cool, but boring is safe and reliable.
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    • Posted by CTYankee 9 years, 9 months ago
      Tis true. It's one area where 'Russian Engineering' ('RE') gives enormous advantages.

      What is RE? It must be defined in relation to American Engineering (AE). When an AE requirement calls for a 'clamp' the engineer will draft the clamp in 3-D, write a machining spec, generate a BOM, and a tolerance table. The shop will create a progressive die or rigid tooling to hold the part, order materials, and arrange for disposal of scrap in an approved manner. Then there will be an inspection regiment, surface preparation, painting or plating, a package, and a hazmat disposal schedule. Finally the installer will don antistatic gloves, unbox the clamp, inspect it again, and it everything is in order he will install the clamp, after checking the computer for possible engineering revisions.

      The Russian Engineer will 'clamp' the movable item by drilling a hole in it, threading a bolt through the whole, and tightening the nut!

      And because of the psychological stress factors, the AE will be directed to seek counselling, while the Russian Engineer will toast a job well done with vodka.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
        This reminds me of the invention of the 'write in any position ballpoint pen', which was AE. The Russians just used a pencil.

        On the other hand, 'write upside down' pens became a commercial product. That was bought by Russians.

        Jan
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        • Posted by Technocracy 9 years, 9 months ago
          The Papermate Powerpoint

          Wrote very well if you have a heavy hand.
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          • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
            Thank you, I'd forgotten the name. I just checked, and apparently they are no longer made.

            Jan
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            • Posted by Technocracy 9 years, 9 months ago
              I bet we could have a very interesting thread on products that have come and gone in our lifetimes.
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              • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
                I do not see kids playing jacks any more. I suppose that they are still around...

                Of course there is all of the music media: 78 records, cassette tapes, 8 track tapes...

                Jan
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                • Posted by Technocracy 9 years, 9 months ago
                  Remember Flair pens? Flair hardhead, created when Flairs were THE pen but multi-part forms were the norm?

                  Windup watches > self winding watches > LED watches > LCD Watches > EL watches

                  Calculator displays - Nixle tubes (AC only) > LED > LCD > EL

                  And in that vein, who still uses standalone calculators instead of their phone?

                  B&W Tvs (tubes ) > Color tvs (tubes) > B&W solid state > Color solid state > CRT > Plasma > LCD > LED

                  Portable transistor radios powered by a 9V?

                  Reel to Reel > 8 track > Cassette > CD > MP3 player

                  Blue ink mimeograph (still remember the smell) > photocopy and xerox becomes a common usage verb instead of a company name.

                  So much technology changes in the last 40-50 years. Shocking when you look back on it.
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                  • Posted by $ jlc 9 years, 9 months ago
                    I still have many of the items you mention. In boxes or corners around the house. At this point, they are transitioning to 'memorabilia'.

                    Jan
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    • Posted by Ranter 9 years, 9 months ago
      It is a privately funded effort to colonize Mars. Elon Musk and his Spacex company are very much involved in this.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Coloni...
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      • Posted by TheRealBill 9 years, 9 months ago
        This isn't about SpaceX or the MCT. Musk wants to land on Mars not wave at it as he flies on by.

        Nor is this a privately funded operation:

        "In addition, the foundation has formed a partnership with NASA via a reimbursable Space Act Agreement between Paragon and the Ames Research Center to conduct thermal protection system and technology testing and evaluation. "

        Furthermore SpaceX and "Space exploration engineering corp" are not the same company.

        The development and production of a booster capable of sending a lone pair of elderly people to fly by Mars will take longer than flight ready by 2018. The statements they make regarding how only during this time is there such a "short" journey are demonstrably false. Anyone even partially versed in the material knows this to be true. With tech from Apollo a low energy conjunction mission could do it approximately ever two years, and in a under 180 days transit time for a total round trip of about one year. With some desire to go faster, ie. burn more fuel, 150 days is relatively easy.
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