Our Dear Leader assured us that this couldn't happen... Not that this is a huge surprise, but we cannot take anything this regime says as the truth. SECURE THE BORDERS NOW!
I have not worked in that environment but I worked on Nuclear Power Plants while in the Navy. You have to be very careful when removing the protective garb. I had to wear similar gear to prevent from becoming contaminated by particles when entering the reactor compartment for maintenance. When removing the protective garments, you have to be careful in how you duff (remove) them. There may be contamination or residue on the outside of the garment. So you have to remove in a certain order and do it in such a way as to contain the contaminant within the garment. My understanding of this (and there are several variants) is that the virus is transmitted by bodily fluids and that as long as it is in a liquid form, it can last up to 3 days or so. Granted, I am not a microbiologist or anything, just experienced in preventing the spread of contamination.
I agree. From a related article: "At some point there was a breach in protocol," Frieden said. "That breach in protocol resulted in this infection." There really isn't another rationale given what we know about this virus.
They now admit there was no known breech of protocol; it was just assumed that since the protocol is perfect it must have been violated. It seems the fault is somewhere in the protocol, but at this point no one knows where.
Exactly. As I commented below, even trained professionals who are not accustomed to suiting up every day can make mistakes. That is likely what happened here, and hopefully it doesn't cost someone their life.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around this... if I, as a Hazmat Tech, can suit up in a Level A Suit (also known as a Moon suit), go into a nasty deadly environment, do my job, and on exiting be safely and correctly decontaminated and doff my suit safely without contaminating myself or others... how is it that these people cannot?
There is something really wrong - and sorry to say, suspicious - about this. Like Jim, I am not a microbiologist or epidemiologist, but I do know about protective measures... why anyone with any level of responsibility for someone elses safety and health would send them into a situation with less than necessary protection... and worse, way way underestimate the hazard or transmission vectors to make it sound safe...
It sounds like when they told the responders to Chernobyl that if you only go in for 5 minutes you'll be fine... knowing a 5 second exposure would give the responders a lethal dose of radiation, and relying on the responders lack of knowledge and deliberate misinformation to get them to go in, essentially like sheep...
If you work in the inner sanctum of the CDC and/or military installations where handling really nasty stuff is a daily occurrence, suiting up and suit removal is a routine practice. You are quite familiar with the drill and practice it day-in, day-out. If you work at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, you do NOT do this day-in, day-out and lapses are more likely to happen. Just my $0.02.
Well, you are also forgetting that the virologists at the CDC were leaving pandemic viral samples out in the open to culture & such without bothering to put them away.
Doctors are not obsessed with safety and accountability in the way of say, the military, these are arrogant people by nature and are going to flaunt the safety measures just because they can and they won't be fired.
Because they keep sending him out with more lies and he looks like an idiot a few days after. Unfortunately "public relations" is a rough field to find another job in.
Any job trying to sell the flawed policy of the dotgov for the dotgov is destined to failure. His agency is supposed to protect the public; the problem is, he can't protect the public from the deliberate and systematic introduction of this likely (and to the dotgov, hopefully) pandemic strain.
Didn't work with the bird flu, as it turned out not to be a good contagion, but they know this one does transmit easily and has a high mortality rate, so there ya go. Problem solved.
As he should be... our regime continued to tell us there's nothing to fear, but they are the same ones telling us that closing our borders will make the problem worse. <shakes head>
We were just discussing this here at our compound. If the village barber in Westerville, Ohio and the local school bus driver (different families) know that flights need to be grounded and borders closed...WTF is wrong with those idiots in Washington DC?
If you can't get the sheeple to cower in fear and hand over more freedom to the dotgov using what worked for the past 10 years (terrorists), invent a new monster under the bed. Ebola seems to be just the ticket...
"Dr. Daniel Varga, of the Texas Health Resource, said the worker was in full protective gear when they provided care to Duncan during his second visit to the hospital. " "Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said at a press conference Sunday morning he wanted to stress Ebola cannot be contracted unless one comes into contact with the bodily fluids of an Ebola victim. We expected it was possible that a second person could contract the virus. Contingency plans were put into place."
If this is true, how did the infection occur in the worker ?
Should contingency plans also include isolation of care workers from the general population?
Continuing to misrepresent the danger of Ebola is treason.
A single sneeze will carry bodily fluid under projectile power for over 50 feet, releasing it into air ducts and a building's atmosphere. See http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gross-coughs...
I think it's transmittable from skin particles airborn after scraping ones skin... Not an airborn disease, but is kind of from that. Disrobing and touching the suit while removing it..., and handling the corpse are all serious threats.
Yes, they say that but haven't announced what the breach was. Either (a) they "know" it couldn't be anything else but can't determine what it is, or (b) they know the breach is not controllable yet and they don't dare admit it. Hubris?
We can't get into Groom Lake (Area 51). They have a virtual fence where there is no physical one. It can be done. There is no will to do it despite the pressing need and legitimate reasons. It is the paramount duty of any government to protect its citizens. If it cannot do this, it is of no use and should be replaced. Of course this problem has arrived by plane and needs its own response, just a ships will. Still, it is only a matter of time before it comes across the border in problematic numbers just like the Enterovirus.
In addition to the virtual fence, Groom Lake has (or had, not sure it still exists today) signs posting that trespassers were subject to the use of deadly force.
But we couldn't POSSIBLY make that threat to those coming here to seek a better life for their family, can we? <ahem>
The numbers do constitute an invasion... I prefer to increase the numbers of legal immigrants if they are truly needed, but we should know who they are and what risk they pose. Those already in line should come first.
I agree with you on securing the borders, just on its own. But I think the ebola transmission story is a different issue.
Most of the time that hospital personnel are dealing with patients in isolation or in surgery, they are concerned about giving something to the patient rather than catching something from them. The gowns, gloves, and masks are intended to keep the (for example) patient on the operating table safe from the bacteria in the surgeon's mouth or on his hands.
I suspect that what happened is that the nurse gloved and gowned as if for surgery - that is to say, very carefully 'going in'. But when you come out of surgery, you can just strip off the gear...and scratch your nose. It is the reverse when you are dealing with contagious diseases: you can be haphazard 'going in' to the room, but you have to be meticulous in removing the gear. For example: You take off your left glove using your right gloved hand. This is OK. But then, how do you take off the right glove? There is a 'way' (insert your left hand inside the right glove, pinch it, and remove it from the inside, turning it inside out as you do so). If you were to forget this and just strip off the right glove with your ungloved left hand, then scratch your nose with that hand...
And I suspect that the rest of the personnel in the hospital have been following the same training in surgical glove and gowning.
According to experts prevention is based on containment. Contamination by direct contact with body fluids. Here's what common sense tells me. In order to contain the virus, you have to contain the source of it- West African travel. However, for economic and political reasons they don't want to do so. That position is senseless. Allow continued help to contain it within and set hospital ships off shore for treatment and quarantine purposes. At least until crisis is over. Change the determination that it can only be transmitted by physical contamination to one where contamination may be contracted by close proximity to infected persons, i.e. moisture in air during exhalation of infected person. Unfortunately, what's common sense to me, is neither to people with political agendas.
A 21 day inconvenience versus a pandemic? How DARE we consider inconveniencing those people's right to travel freely from the western African holy lands to the USA just to keep a major disease from getting a foothold here...
historically, there is precedent for this. As long as periods are temporary and for a consistent duration that is reasonable, based on scientific information. Port masters routinely quarantined people coming into a country. Frankly I'd like to see private industry taking the lead on this. Why are the airlines so passive in this discussion? We have all these documents we have to have in order to travel today, and when we really need to make decisions about the things that matter in travel we bungle it up.
Whats the alternative- letting ebola enter our country, kill our economy and most likely a number of people? I dont want ebola infected people here, period !!! When we had immigration in the 1900's, we turned people who were sick away when they got to whatever island that was in NYC.
Maybe in order to get on a plane out of western Africa, you have to submit to a 21 day observation and quarantine process until some quicker way was devised to assure non infection status.
If I owned a hospital, I would NOT admit an ebola patient to it. First of all, its dangerous to the people in the hospital, whether patients or caregivers. Secondly, its EXPENSIVE, and who is going to pay for it. The real way to keep ebola contained is to keep the people proven free of the disease of the affected countries from leaving. Cut out ALL air travel from those countries to anywhere until this is contained. Forget checking for temperature once they arrive in the USA- what if they were infected 2 days ago and it takes up to 21 days for a full blown diagnosis of ebola? I live in Las Vegas, where people come from all over the world- Its VERY SCARY and I dont think the government here has much of a plan to prevent the spread. As it is, I dont want to go to the casinos or public places here because of it. One good case of ebola in Caesars palace and the entire strip will be empty as people cancel their plans to come to Las Vegas. Same would be true of any vacation destination (Orlando, Fla for example).
There is something really wrong - and sorry to say, suspicious - about this. Like Jim, I am not a microbiologist or epidemiologist, but I do know about protective measures... why anyone with any level of responsibility for someone elses safety and health would send them into a situation with less than necessary protection... and worse, way way underestimate the hazard or transmission vectors to make it sound safe...
It sounds like when they told the responders to Chernobyl that if you only go in for 5 minutes you'll be fine... knowing a 5 second exposure would give the responders a lethal dose of radiation, and relying on the responders lack of knowledge and deliberate misinformation to get them to go in, essentially like sheep...
Doctors are not obsessed with safety and accountability in the way of say, the military, these are arrogant people by nature and are going to flaunt the safety measures just because they can and they won't be fired.
Didn't work with the bird flu, as it turned out not to be a good contagion, but they know this one does transmit easily and has a high mortality rate, so there ya go. Problem solved.
It breaks out everywhere there is centralized unearned power.
If you can't get the sheeple to cower in fear and hand over more freedom to the dotgov using what worked for the past 10 years (terrorists), invent a new monster under the bed. Ebola seems to be just the ticket...
It couldn't be anything they did!
(But I do see your point;^)
"Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said at a press conference Sunday morning he wanted to stress Ebola cannot be contracted unless one comes into contact with the bodily fluids of an Ebola victim. We expected it was possible that a second person could contract the virus. Contingency plans were put into place."
If this is true, how did the infection occur in the worker ?
Should contingency plans also include isolation of care workers from the general population?
Continuing to misrepresent the danger of Ebola is treason.
Either
(a) they "know" it couldn't be anything else but can't determine what it is, or
(b) they know the breach is not controllable yet and they don't dare admit it.
Hubris?
But we couldn't POSSIBLY make that threat to those coming here to seek a better life for their family, can we? <ahem>
Most of the time that hospital personnel are dealing with patients in isolation or in surgery, they are concerned about giving something to the patient rather than catching something from them. The gowns, gloves, and masks are intended to keep the (for example) patient on the operating table safe from the bacteria in the surgeon's mouth or on his hands.
I suspect that what happened is that the nurse gloved and gowned as if for surgery - that is to say, very carefully 'going in'. But when you come out of surgery, you can just strip off the gear...and scratch your nose. It is the reverse when you are dealing with contagious diseases: you can be haphazard 'going in' to the room, but you have to be meticulous in removing the gear. For example: You take off your left glove using your right gloved hand. This is OK. But then, how do you take off the right glove? There is a 'way' (insert your left hand inside the right glove, pinch it, and remove it from the inside, turning it inside out as you do so). If you were to forget this and just strip off the right glove with your ungloved left hand, then scratch your nose with that hand...
And I suspect that the rest of the personnel in the hospital have been following the same training in surgical glove and gowning.
Jan
Inadequate and/or missing training is going to be an ongoing issue.
Ellis Island.
Respectfully,
O.A.
My question back to you was how such a guarantee could be made. I don't think it could short of some sort of sequestering process.
IF Beloved Leader can stop all flights into and out of Israel at a whim, why not stop all flights into and out of west Africa...
Unless getting the disease well established here IS the point of the exercise...