An Alternative to the Debt Ceiling

Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 1 month ago to Economics
15 comments | Share | Flag

NYTs argues the debt ceiling is just an illusion and should be abolished. (Ignore the author's annoying Democratic bias. The whole Democrat/Republican thing borders on a scam.)

Debt Ceiling is Better than Nothing:
These annoying budget showdowns are little reminders that if debt/GDP increases, it sucks capital away from commercial projects that could grow GDP. We shouldn't make it easy or non-annoying to go deeper into debt.

A Radical Suggestion:
I would like some kind of fiscal policy board that sets fiscal policy similar to how the Fed sets monetary policy. This is would probably require a constitutional amendment, and would decrease and would turn over spending authority to a board that's less accountable to the citizens. The benefit of it, though, is politicians could never argue for or against a spending program or tax on the basis for stimulus / fiscal responsibility. The committee would have already laid out for the next three years what percentage of GDP we'll be increasing/decreasing the debt. Congress would be free to spend and tax as much as it wants but it would have to respect the fiscal policy board's level of borrowing. If the board said 2014 borrowing will be 100 billion, we could have a vigorous debate about whether to raise taxes or cut spending to hit that, but borrowing $700 billion (would not be an option). If there's some $600 billion in spending we couldn't live without, they'd just have to increase taxes.

This system would work only if the fiscal policy board were better at fiscal policy than Congress. It would have make it harder for politicians to argue for a spending program without talking about a tax to fund it.

There's no way around the fact that it would turn spending authority over to unelected appointed experts.
SOURCE URL: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/22/opinion/how-to-disarm-the-debt-ceiling-threat-for-good.html


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years, 1 month ago
    Balanced budget amendment and tar and feathering for those who break it... another NYTs article of relevance...
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/opinio...
    There is only one legitimate reason for deficit spending; in time of necessary defense of the nation when survival is at stake one must take unsavory measures.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 11 years, 1 month ago
      That's a great article. I agree with almost every word of it.

      I disagree with his passing comment that tax rates (within reason, not marginal rates >65%) affect growth. This is moot b/c I agree that gov't debt stifles growth.

      I like the idea of a balanced budget amendment, BUT it takes away gov't spending as a stabilizing force in the economic cycle. If the gov't went along spending the same each year with a _structrually_ balanced budget, _cyclical_ deficits and surpluses would come and go w/ the economic cycle. If we disallow even _cyclical_ deficits, it means we have to cut spending (or raise taxes) during a recession. This means the recession will be deeper than it needs to be (i.e. more unused production capability), and that means slower long-term growth.

      The counter-argument to this is that I'm weighing a balanced budget amendment against a scenario where Congress runs no structural deficit and intelligently allows cyclical surpluses/deficits to even out the economic cycle. That scenario has never happened in my life so far.

      So if we're left with an amendment, how do we leave an exemption for bona fide national emergencies that wouldn't be exploited to circumvent the spirit of the amendment?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 11 years, 1 month ago
        The government received the largest revenue in history this year despite hard economic times. The budget could be increased yearly with inflation or GDP, but increasing according to desire as opposed to revenue is a recipe for inevitable insolvency.
        I am strongly against Keynsian economics. It may seem helpful to prop up an economy with government spending, but it has not been proven to my satisfaction that it has ever shortened a recession. It is nonsense and takes money from the private sector where it could produce something instead of greater debt. I would support Hayek over Keynes any day.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBfpXudxO...
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by richrobinson 11 years, 1 month ago
    I appreciate what you want to accomplish Circuit but a fiscal policy board would be corrupted in pretty short order. We need leadership. During the Jimmy Carter Presidency some on the left openly talked about the US system coming to the end of its reign. They argued it may be time for a new system of government. Reagan took over with a new Fed chief and the economy took off. The deficit grew but so did revenue. It should have been easy to reduce and eliminate the debt.. Lack of discipline and leadership are hurting this country. As long as we have a leadership void at Pennsylvania avenue nothing will change.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
    • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 1 month ago
      And why did the deficit grow? Because the communist Congress of that era, kept spending more than the skyrocketing economy brought in. Reagan should have vetoed more, but, as some here have praised him for, he was "pragmatic" and compromised.

      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by 11 years, 1 month ago
        When you cut through the politics, people are willing to cut taxes based on some dubious logic, e.g. "starve the beast", but they can't find the same will to cut spending.

        It's the same problem that makes me a few lbs overweight. I know it's calories in / calories out, but it's hard to execute.

        I don't mean to say our deficit is analogous to a few lbs over. We may have to have an economic heart attack before we go on a diet and exercise regimen.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 11 years, 1 month ago
      You're saying the same things that make politicians overspend would make the fiscal policy board overspend?

      You point out that Volcker was willing to take away the monetary punch bowl, and as a result many kids have never even thought about inflation. Couldn't we get a fiscal version Volcker to do the same thing?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • Posted by Mitch 11 years, 1 month ago
    I disagree with the article 100%, the founding fathers injected separations of powers in our government for a reason, to keep the majority party from running rough shot over the minority party and to keep an overly oppressive government in check. One of these separations or powers is the House’s powers of the purse. The founding fathers intended out government to function exactly the way it did when the Republicans withheld a budget to enact defunding the ACA; I only wish they had the backbone to follow this through. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I believe the House has to initiate a debt limit increase, the Senate can modify but can’t initiate the bill? This is a tool to again force the majority party to mind their manners, if only our representatives would grow a spine.

    The solution is the Liberty Amendments.
    http://www.libertyamendment.com/

    The purpose of this Amendment is to give full force and effect to the Constitution of the United States; to restore freedom and lost liberties to all Americans; and to restore sovereignty to the United States of America, the States and the body of the People.

    The Liberty Amendment will renew personal freedom – the ability of individuals to exercise their God-given rights with a minimum of dependence on, and interference from, the Federal Government. It will restore to ourselves and to future generations the advantages which we inherited from our forefathers – advantages which made us the most fortunate people on earth.

    Economic freedom, without which no freedom is possible, will be renewed by terminating federal competition with free enterprise and interference in "our" economy. When this has been accomplished, federal personal income, estate, and gift taxes will be unnecessary. So this Amendment will further renew economic freedom by terminating these taxes.

    The Liberty Amendment is designed to regain the Constitutionally guaranteed powers reserved to the States and to the people. We are requesting that all States consider the urgent need to save the sovereignty of the States, the United States in its true Constitutionally framed Republic, and the Individual Liberty of all of our People.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by 11 years, 1 month ago
      I disagree with the article too; I'm saying the debt ceiling and the foolish theatrics that come with it are better than doing nothing; but there must be an even better approach.

      I don't get how the Liberty Amendment solves it. The first part just says the gov't will follow the Constitution. If the gov't doesn't respect the Constitution as is, adding a line saying "this
      Constitution WILL be respected" won't help. They'll say the same thing: The constitution specifies protecting interstate commerce, so it specifies [insert any program here].

      The last part says they'll eliminate the main types of taxes, but that won't stop them from instituting sales taxes and other fees and then spending more than they take in.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo