David Stockman on The Ukrainian Border War Folly (Including a detailed history of the area now called Ukraine)
Posted by freedomforall 7 months ago to Politics
Excerpt:
"Someone should tell the European ruling elites to take a long jump off a short pier. Their endless whining about the Ruuskies and Putin is just plain pathetic because—
- It’s not justified—Russia bears no hallmarks of an expansionist imperial power.
- The Russia-Ukraine conflict is none of western Europe’s business—since its essentially a territorial and civil war within the borders of historic Russia.
- If EU officialdom is really concerned about the purported Russian threat why do they spend just a pittance of their GDP on defense?
Yet, here we have Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, former German defense minister and full-throated war-hawk, talking absolute nonsense:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to see empires and autocracies back in Europe, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told the European Economic Congress in Katowice.
Speaking alongside Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, von der Leyen insisted that she stands for a European Union that is ready to do whatever it takes to protect Europe, and especially Ukraine.
“Putin’s war is about redrawing the map of Europe, but it is also a war on our Union and on the entire global rules-based system,” she said.”
Well, that’s rubbish if there ever was such. The only time the borders of Ukraine have been redrawn at the barrel of a gun is when Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev did it between 1922 and 1954. That’s right, this bureaucratic half-wit wants to embroil the world in WWIII in order to enforce borders drawn by a trio if history’s most blood-thirsty tyrants.
As explained below, there never was a country even remotely resembling modern Ukraine until the Soviet communists decreed its existence. "
"Someone should tell the European ruling elites to take a long jump off a short pier. Their endless whining about the Ruuskies and Putin is just plain pathetic because—
- It’s not justified—Russia bears no hallmarks of an expansionist imperial power.
- The Russia-Ukraine conflict is none of western Europe’s business—since its essentially a territorial and civil war within the borders of historic Russia.
- If EU officialdom is really concerned about the purported Russian threat why do they spend just a pittance of their GDP on defense?
Yet, here we have Ursula von der Leyen, president of the European Commission, former German defense minister and full-throated war-hawk, talking absolute nonsense:
“Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to see empires and autocracies back in Europe, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen told the European Economic Congress in Katowice.
Speaking alongside Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, von der Leyen insisted that she stands for a European Union that is ready to do whatever it takes to protect Europe, and especially Ukraine.
“Putin’s war is about redrawing the map of Europe, but it is also a war on our Union and on the entire global rules-based system,” she said.”
Well, that’s rubbish if there ever was such. The only time the borders of Ukraine have been redrawn at the barrel of a gun is when Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev did it between 1922 and 1954. That’s right, this bureaucratic half-wit wants to embroil the world in WWIII in order to enforce borders drawn by a trio if history’s most blood-thirsty tyrants.
As explained below, there never was a country even remotely resembling modern Ukraine until the Soviet communists decreed its existence. "
biden the usurper is hiding his corruption and working with the corruption in ukraine.
were is the accounting????
They have murdered and overthrown dozens of "Democracies" bankrupted and starved countless nations, once on their knees, then used their nations for drug and arms running.
People so quickly forgot how Russia, our ally, won the war in Europe for us by trying up so much of Hitlers resources.
If Russia simply remained neutral, we would have most certainly lost Europe.
If Russia actively sided with Germany, we would be speaking Russian, or more likely German, right now.
Together with Russia, we defeated the German Army.
The Nazis won the war.
All the top scientists were divided between us and the Soviets.
The Forth Reich is alive and well, here in America.
There is a set of maps that Stockman should have included- maps showing the boundaries of NATO from when it was founded in the 1940s to today. NATO did not stop expanding even when the Soviet Union collapsed.
Shortly thereafter I read that several Ukrainian high government officials bought real estate in Switzerland.
That told me all I needed know about throwing good mega millions after a fortune of bad money in Ukraine.
Not to mention Democrats fawning all over Zelenskyy as if he were Elvis risen from the grave whenever he visits Washington D.C.
Please, explain that "Russian propaganda fable."
While you're at it, explain how NATO weapons turn up in Syria, Gaza, and Mexican Cartels
The only thing Zelensky has his hands full of is a certain white powder, snorting it with a rolled-up $100 bill.
Or, maybe there really is a Russian boogieman hiding in the closet.
easy,
how much "stuff" was left behind in Afghanistan???
likely on purpose
:-)
do not expect answers from dr zelinsky
The Holodomor occurred in Russia and it also occurred in the territory you call "Ukraine".and in other parts of the USSR
.
Do you seriously swallow the narrative that Stalin was so unhinged he would purposely kill millions of his own RUSSIAN-SPEAKING ethnic Russian citizens?
None of this is by chance.
Really!? The map game to declare a country non-existent? It seems we see a lot of that used to declare Israel an artificial nation as well. By that standard, most European countries should be declared non-existent, since most were cobbled together out of numerous mini-kingdoms, baronetcies, and principalities. Oh, and how about the US? Our country didn't exist until a bunch of rebel swine (by the Crown's view) committed treason. Give me a break!
China and North Korea are carefully watching the Russian adventure, and if the western nations fold their hand and let Russia take whatever they want, rest assured Taiwan and South Korea will be next places where we have to decide if we abandon any responsibility.
Isolationism sounds attractive, but if we abandon our role as the world policeman, be prepared for a long, bitter haul trying to reindustrialize at the same time we try to hold off a flood of refugees that will make our current open border crisis look trivial.
The current Ukraine scenario is as if in 1938 Czechoslovakia decided to resist German occupation instead of caving in to appeasement. If that had happened, and with the support of other European nations and the US to stop Hitler, we might have avoided another world war. Ignoring a problem doesn't solve it.
Russia is not going ANYWHERE
Poland and Germany have the force to fight
if they do not resist, that is on them
Russia may eat up small states near them, that were once part of Russia
do we start WW3??
as for Czechoslovakia, you analogy fails
Czechoslovakia was part of Austria-Hungry, not Germany
Ukraine was part of Russia longer than the US has been a nation
history matters
Florida belonged to Spain for over 200 years. Should we give it back? How about California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado as well? Should Alaska be handed back to Russia, as some of them have claimed?
Living in the present matters.
That Ukraine "hosted Hitler’s Wehrmacht" has to be one of the stupidest remarks about WWII ever!
Also to argue that Russia is not the aggressor in the Ukraine war because their military spending is a low percentage of GDP is equally absurd.
Isn't turning one's eyes away from sadistic depraved dictators atrocities against their own citizens what, eventually, gets us dragged into foreign wars?
Where is the evidence that Putin is doing it?
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/...
Stalin purposely staved millions to death.
The US and NATO are as much at fault as Putin for Ukraine deaths now.
The war could have ended a few months after it started but
NATO and the US wanted the war to continue, and they still do.
NATO, 0bama, biden pushed it
I'm always interested in the truth.
who started this war??
the one firing the first shot is not always the one that started it
0bama and biden pushed and pushed and pushed until finally a war started
Putin clearly said he would not allow Russia to be surrounded by NATO. and why is there still a NATO? there is no Soviet Union and no Warsaw Pact
France and England both have nuclear weapons, they no longer need to depend on the US. Germany and Poland 296 and 664 modern tanks respectively.
Putin is not going anywhere, his reason for the Ukraine invasion were clear, the US started it, 0bama started it
how this happened matters
or else you cannot pre vent it again
there will always be people that believe their strength allows them to take from others
or they use others (0bama, biden, deep state)
A: Sociopaths rise to power and always want more.
Most people just want to be left alone to raise their families in peace
and reigning in the power-mad 'leaders' and their brainwashing media
isn't what people are inclined to do. Every government is guilty.
The brainwashing to "trust your leaders" must be reversed.
Putin has taken a tactic from Hitler's rulebook: anywhere some of the people speak your language needs to be "liberated." That was the excuse for helping the Donbas territories declare independence, and for continuing to do everything possible to destroy Ukraine's existence as a sovereign state.
should we start WW# for something that already changes over time?
state rise and fall
leaving behind radiation is not a good way to deal with it
and yes, why is there still a NATO???
when most NATO nations do not pay their fair share
one more time for the very slow
Ukraine was part of Russia for a LONG, LONG time
that there are people from all over Russia living there is clear
what to do about it is also clear
DO NOT START WW3
what i have heard is that Russia refuses to be surrounded by NATO
based on how NATO/US are acting, that is not an unreasonable demand
this war would have ended or not started but for the corrupt biden admin
and you want history?
lets go into the anti-Jewish actions of Ukraine over time
The late head of the Wagner group, Prigozhin, pointed out that Putin's invasion also didn't result in Ukraine being "de-militarized," as it quadrupled its military and modernized its combat arms. As for the "de-Nazification," that was always a strawman, based on Russian paranoia from the Ukrainians who joined the Wehrmacht, seeing that as one way to fight against Stalin.
Stalin did a lot of relocating people across the USSR, as he realized that Russia had always been a conglomerate of conquered ethnic groups, and he wanted to make it more difficult for them to develop any sense of independence. The Tatars, who had been a major ethnic group in Crimea, with a strong warrior class, were shipped out wholesale and replaced with ethnic Russians to keep them from causing trouble.
But, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I really don't care about what happens to Ukraine, given its checkered past.
I don't like that Russia just unilaterally invaded another country, cause that behavior seems to just lead to more invasions and more invasions.
Is russia a country with expansionist desires- YES. Was USA a country with expansionist desires until it had expanded from Atlantic to Pacific coasts- YES.
There was not even a language called "Ukrainian" until it was cobbled together by Austria-Hungry in the late 1800's and institutionalized in schools in Austria-Hungary-controlled areas of Western Russia to create a separate piece of "Russia" that would oppose Russian authority. Austria-Hungary was trying to divide Russia. Hitler used the same strategy to use Ukrainians to oppose Russia, and there wer4e several genocides by the Ukrainians against the Russians, Poles and Jews. .
There were numerous wars fought back and forth over what is now Ukraine, with Cossacks (Tatar ethnic group) warring against the Russians. Then there were the Polish-Lithuanian invasions, with lots of killings by both sides.
The reason Russia wants to control Ukraine is that those fertile plains have been the path invaders took numerous times. The Russians won't feel safe until they control every bit of territory from the Baltic shore to the Caucasus mountains.
The Khazars (source of modern Ashkenazi Jews) made lots of enemies, as each side accused them of funding their opponents, and they were subject to a number of pogroms by the Russians and others that eventually broke up their community. The last Russian pogrom was the inspiration for the well known musical, "Fiddler on the Roof."
The stupid thing was for Obama to refuse to give any arms to Ukraine, after he'd meddled in their affairs. It showed that he didn't understand what kind of mess he'd contributed to.
Trump did two things: first, he told Putin that if he invaded Ukraine he'd tell the American oil industry to produce as much as they could, intending to drive the price of oil so low that Russia could make no profit; second, he provided Ukraine with defensive weapons, primarily Javelin antitank missiles, just in case Putin ignored the warning (and which helped Ukraine hold off what Putin had expected to be a three day easy takeover of Ukraine).
If Trump had been reelected in 2020, it's likely that there would have been no Russian invasion, and no need to provide Ukraine with offensive weapons. They could have purchased new weapons on their own, but NATO wouldn't be supplying them.
the election was stolen
another democrat act of treason