The God of the Machine - Tranche 31

Posted by mshupe 1 year, 4 months ago to Government
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Chapter XV, Excerpt 1 of 1
The Fatal Amendments

The Bill of Rights is integrally of the Constitution. The only objection offered was that enumeration of rights might be construed as limiting them to the issues named . . . implying the European idea of “liberties” instead of American liberty. The test may be applied to any amendment by general questions: Does the amendment deny rights? Does it weaken the bases by impairing states? As the structure cracks, disrupting the private economy, the zealous amenders will be plied more furiously.

By the American theory the government is the agent of the citizen; it is absurd to hold that a person may not sue his agent. The Fourteenth Amendment confirmed Federal citizenship and civil rights, but it would have been better if the Bill of Rights had been explicitly extended to bind state governments. The proper use of power and the proper agency for its use are entirely different. The Fifteenth Amendment perpetuated the destruction. It deprived states of an indispensable attribute of sovereignty.

The formal stroke was the Seventeenth Amendment, which took the election of Senators out of the State Legislatures. The “Social Security swindle” is only validated by the income tax amendment. The appearance of an enormous bureaucracy was the natural phenomenon of a structureless nation. Politics became lucrative. The cost and display of government is always in inverse ratio to the liberty and prosperity of it citizens. Political power has a ratchet action; it only works one way.


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  • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 4 months ago
    ” Political power has a ratchet action; it only works one way.”

    Can the destruction of the ratchet’s pawl be accomplished without the focused application of the enormous energy of physical force? Talking it to death isn’t working. The ratchet keeps turning.

    Ayn Rand’s “mindless face of a thug with a club in his hand” keeps taking with only his unfocused brain and “gut feelings” as his guides. His only absolute being nothing is absolute.

    America’s revolution was the first and last “reasoned revolution”. All other revolutions in history merely served to replace one form of dictatorship with another.

    America desperately needs another.
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    • Posted by 1 year, 4 months ago
      Yes, great analysis, and like the American Revolution, it must be in the minds of a plurality of individuals. John Locke's Second Treatise of Government had to be rediscovered 50 years before 1776. Americans in 1726 were way ahead of us intellectually and morally. The God of the Machine, in the aftermath of the Industrial Revolution, may be that treatise, combined with Ayn Rand's For the New Intellectual.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 1 year, 3 months ago
    You are absolutely right. This is the inevitable increase in government power that comes from a government run by power hungry humans.

    I still focus on the Sixteenth. That provided infinite fiscal power to the Federal Government and thus, infinite power.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
      Agreed. The Founders didn't want the Federal government to be able to tax its own people. They'd seen what that did in other nations and wanted to constrain the Federal government by restricting its access to funds, as well as preventing the Federal government from using taxation against its own people.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
    Interested to understand how the Fifteenth Amendment "perpetuated the destruction." I'm not following that one.

    That being said, I would suggest that people who take welfare benefits from the government should forfeit their right to vote while taking such benefits.
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    • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
      Yes, me too, and had to study that more closely. I think there are four concepts here: 1) Voting is not a primary right. 2) Rights cannot be rescinded by vote. 3) The individual states must retain the authority to specify voting privileges. 4) To unduly centralize power over matters that are not natural rights will weaken the structure of sound government and eventually obliterate rights. To me, this is worthy of discussion here.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
        I agree with 2, 3, and 4. Voting is a primary right, however - a personal extension of voluntary entrance into contract. If one argues that the right to vote isn't primary, one similarly alienates the right to voluntary membership in any group.
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        • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
          Thanks, I'm with you on that, but it's contingent on a man made social structure. Primary rights are metaphysical realities. Revolutionary France was based on the premise that rights were bestowed by government, voting being such a right, and that didn't work out so well.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
            I agree that voting is only possible within a social structure, but so are all other rights. The right to speech is meaningless if there is no one else around. The right to association hinges on the existence of other people.

            "based on the premise that rights were bestowed by government"

            I completely agree with you there. If one presupposes that government - rather than a Creator as noted in the Declaration of Independence - is the source of rights, then all rights are no longer inalienable because they didn't originate with the individual in the first place.
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            • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
              Rights are a moral principle. They are derived from the integration of natural law and human nature. They are proven through the scientific method of evidence and causality. That conceptualization is unique to Objectivism, and an example of its usefulness for all human life.
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    • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 3 months ago
      “Interested to understand how the Fifteenth Amendment "perpetuated the destruction." I'm not following that one.”

      As an engineering principle, the Founders placed the States in a balance between the centrifugal force exerted by the States which would tend to tear America apart and the centripetal force exerted by the Federal government which would, if unopposed, result in a totalitarian America.

      The States were originally designed as laboratories of Democracy. They were to set their own rules for elections free from the heavy hand of the central government. This allowed other States to copy the best practices of other States.

      The fifteenth amendment took that power away. Citizens and elections were federalized. It weakened the States – the Seventeenth Amendment ended the Republic.

      The results are obvious, the current President rules by Executive Order ignoring Congress and the People.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
        "The fifteenth amendment took that power away. Citizens and elections were federalized."

        How? Here's the text of the Amendment:

        "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

        Now you can argue that a specific SCOTUS case interpreted this to mean that the Federal Government could override certain voting laws, but the text itself doesn't. I'm not buying this argument without significantly more explanation.
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        • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 3 months ago
          "Other than that, the Constitution grants almost all other power and authority to the individual states, as Madison said. While the Constitution doesn’t explicitly list the powers retained by the states, the founders included a catch-all in the 10th Amendment, ratified in 1791:

          “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

          Those so-called “reserved” powers include all authority and functions of local and state governments, policing, education, the regulation of trade within a state, the running of elections and many more..."

          The powers reserved by the States included "the running of elections..." The Founders sought to find a middle ground between an all powerful government like England and the near anarchy of the articles of Confederation.

          The Federal Government had no right to interfere in the inner workings of the sovereign States.

          That they did do with the Fifteenth Amendment, the FBI, the Department of Education, the EPA, etc. only shows how far America and Americans have come to living under a Despotic government.

          https://www.history.com/news/federali...
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          • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
            I asked how specifically the Fifteenth Amendment usurps the power of the States. So far, I'm getting accusations, but not much in the way of example or proof. I'd suggest it isn't the Fifteenth Amendment per se, but government practice and the Federal Court system which contribute.

            I do agree that the Federal government has way overstepped its bounds. The Constitution specifically states with respect to voting laws that these are determined by the individual State Legislatures. To me, that means that neither the governors nor the State Supreme Courts have power to overturn them such as they did in 2020 with mail-in ballots. etc. in key States. But I don't see anything in the Fifteenth Amendment that interferes with that except to constrain those State Legislatures from creating voting laws which infringe on the natural right to vote. If you could elaborate on why you feel that is an unreasonable constraint upon the States, I'd be interested.

            I'd also note that because it passed as an Amendment, it does specifically grant the Federal Government the authority to intervene if there is a question. Whether or not that intervention is warranted can certainly be a matter for discussion, but the process was followed properly.

            "The Federal Government had no right to interfere in the inner workings of the sovereign States."

            In certain cases, it does, however. The Supremacy Clause specifically states this. Now have some of the provisions of the Constitution (Commerce Clause, General Welfare Clause, etc.) been twisted by Federal Courts to usurp power and place what should be in the hands of the States in the hands of Federal Bureaucrats? Undeniably. But those should be discussed specifically and individually.
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            • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 3 months ago
              "...infringe on the natural right to vote.." Where in the Works of Aristotle, Locke, Jefferson, Rand et al do you find the "natural right to vote." ? Or did you make it up?
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              • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                It is inherent in the right of Association, is it not?
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                • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 3 months ago
                  No!
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                  • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                    Maybe the following passages sound familiar:

                    "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

                    "it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

                    "He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only."

                    "He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers."

                    "He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries."

                    "For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government,"

                    "For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:"

                    "For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever."

                    (emphasis mine)
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                    • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 3 months ago
                      Focus Blarman Focus
                      Should each State have the power to set the conditions as to who shall have the right to vote and who shall not?

                      Should the Federal Government have the power to set the conditions as to who shall have the right to vote and who shall not?

                      And why?
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                      • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                        I just quoted eight sections from the Declaration of Independence highlighting the critical importance of voting to the Founding Fathers. This leaves no question whatsoever that they viewed the right to vote as a key natural right.

                        Now on to your next questions... HOW and WHO are very different portions of the question and you seem to be conflating them. (Maybe due to a lack of focus...?)

                        "Should each State have the power to set the conditions as to who shall have the right to vote and who shall not?" (emphasis mine)

                        A voter can disqualify himself/herself if they are a felon (and foreigners don't qualify as citizens in the first place). The Constitution provides that the States have the power to determine how the voting should take place, but States do not have the authority to prevent an otherwise eligible voter from participating (the actual text of the Fifteenth Amendment).

                        "Should the Federal Government have the power to set the conditions as to who shall have the right to vote and who shall not?" (emphasis mine)

                        Again, no, but with one caveat: the Federal government has specifically-delegated authority over naturalization/citizenship. So they do control policy as to when a naturalized citizen becomes eligible to vote. But just like with the standards for prosecution, the Federal Government must prove that someone is ineligible before they can prohibit them from voting.

                        States have a similar burden but have it easier in that they can institute jurisdictional guidelines to verify that the person can vote in that particular precinct. This is primarily to determine if they are eligible to vote for specific candidates as a result of geographical gerrymandering. So States do have the authority to authenticate a voter's participation at a particular location, but that's as far as they are legally able to go.
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                        • Posted by j_IR1776wg 1 year, 3 months ago
                          "This leaves no question whatsoever that they viewed the right to vote as a key natural right."

                          So key was it that Jefferson forgot to include in the Declaration of Independence?
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                          • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                            I cited EIGHT separate passages directly from the Declaration of Independence which hinge entirely on voting or free elections. Eight different ways in which the right to vote had been usurped.
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                            • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
                              By a government that had abrogated its own laws by interpreting them in an arbitrary fashion to the detriment of the colonialists. Again, you prove my point that voting rights are not primary. Among the attributes of logic is the concept known as context. It seems you missed that class.
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                              • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                                ????

                                Yes, Great Britain had usurped the right to vote from the colonists in the 1700's. Remember, it is the primary duty of government to protect natural rights. A government which fails to do so repeatedly is ripe for dissolution by its citizens. I'm not sure how this could be made any clearer than the Declaration makes it.

                                "Again, you prove my point that voting rights are not primary."

                                Please take a few minutes and define and defend the notion of "primary" and "secondary" rights, because even the Supreme Court has ruled that such do not exist. (Just this week a federal court overturned a Massachusetts firearms law which applied different requirements for permitting and said that such would create an untenable condition of "secondary" rights.)

                                "Among the attributes of logic..."

                                It's not my duty to defend your hypothesis. That remains with you and you alone. You are the one(s) contending that there are so-called "primary" and "secondary" rights. I dispute that such exist at all. And instead of defining and defending your hypothesis, you keep attacking me and saying that I can't read, I don't understand "context" or that I need to "focus." Maybe if you spent a little less time with ad hominem and a little more examining your premises...
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                                • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
                                  There's this little essay titled The Metaphysical vs. The Man Made. There's another one titled Man's Rights. I think the author's last name is Rosenbaum. Once you've studied those, try a little of the fiction. There's one that describes some shangri-la created by a guy named Midas.
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                        • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
                          We may be off track here. Correctly or not, the conclusion of this book is that the right to vote ultimately lies with the states. In any event, I think America's Founders were more concerned with the appropriate use of the popular vote, the appropriate use of representative voting, and the appropriate use of political appointment. Regarding federal office, they were determined to make sure that the popular vote only applied to Congress. Senators were elected by state legislatures, Presidents by the Electoral College, and Supreme Court justices by appointment. In addition, their terms of office were staggered. The essential is this brilliantly structured integrated system. Democracy was to be kept under close guard, hence the division of powers.
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                          • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                            "the conclusion of this book is that the right to vote ultimately lies with the states."

                            That would imply that voting is not a right but a privilege. There should be no conflation of the right itself and the process by which that right is exercised! The distinction is salient. I re-affirm and cite the Declaration of Independence: voting is a natural right.

                            The implementation of the voting process lies with the States individually, YES. That is as per the Constitution. The Federal Government has only the legitimate authority to review if the State is preventing people who are otherwise eligible from voting in the first place. It was a very real thing in the decades following the Civil War: many blacks in the South were prevented from voting either through intimidation or outright murder. The Fifteenth Amendment was put in place to re-iterate to the States - especially the Southern ones - that they could not legally suppress the vote of otherwise legal voters.

                            (Please note that I do not subscribe to the legal theory that this means we need to make voting easier such as with mail-in ballots or drop boxes.)
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                            • Posted by 1 year, 3 months ago
                              Focus blarman, focus. As stated much earlier, voting is not a primary right. Those are moral principles derived from the integration of natural law and human nature. Voting rights are contingent on a man-made political structure.
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                              • Posted by $ blarman 1 year, 3 months ago
                                "Focus."

                                You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

                                "As stated much earlier, voting is not a primary right."

                                You can state it. I refuse to assent to such a characterization. As I pointed out - there are no rights which exist in the vacuum of a single individual. Not one. If you can show me otherwise, I'm happy to acknowledge the point.

                                "Voting rights are contingent on a man-made political structure."

                                Voting is the method by which the political structure is dictated - not the other way around.

                                From the Declaration: "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..." (emphasis mine)

                                That's the first paragraph and emphasizes that the people chose, i.e. voted, to dissolve the existing "political bands," i.e political structure, which at that time consisted of a parliament dominated by a monarchy. Thus the People voted to eliminate one governmental infrastructure in search of another (even though it would take them fifteen years to finalize on it).
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  • Posted by 1 year, 4 months ago
    It was the European idea of "liberty" that inspired the French Revolution and its bloody, decades long aftermath. For me, the important theme of the second paragraph is "the proper use of power and the proper agency for its use are entirely different. This implies a hierarchy of ideas and actions for rational behavior. The third paragraph highlights a repeating theme - strong man government is weak, feeble, doomed government.
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