Eddie was the version of Atlas who stayed until he collapsed. I believe he represents what would have happened to Dagny if she did not shrug. The contrast at the end was needed to drive home the point of the entire book.
I believe that you have this nailed, Snoogoo. Eddie is a hero of a sort who represents many, many of us who keep on working regardless. the millions who consider their "contract with life" to include devotion to productive behavior, even in the face of determined adversaries. Thank You! -- j
You can guess all you want and it only underscored the chasm between the artist and the viewer. In point of fact, Ayn Rand explained this herself. Willers' fate is purposely left undetermined as being symbolic of the "average person" i.e., you, whose fate is not that of the evil looters or of the prime movers. That said, it also remains that Galt's Gulch included a truck driver who wanted to rise above his station. That does, in fact, underscore Willers' fate as undetermined. He was where he wanted to be in life. Where are you?
Not where he wanted to be but as far as he was capable of going. His fate (by implication as he was left stranded with a broken down train he couldn't do anything about) illustrates what happens to good people with limited or average ability when the best are no longer there to sustain the society. (Other characters were where they chose to be by default despite their ability to be better.)
The theme of Atlas Shrugged was the role of the mind in human existence, and the fate of Eddie Willers, one of the admirable characters in the book, illustrates what everyone had depended on when the best minds are squelched or withdraw from the punishment -- no matter how morally good the victims are.
Eddie Willers' fate in the plot illustrates one aspect of the theme, but in practice when ruthless tyrants take over anyone is vulnerable and no amount of dramatic 'cavalry to the rescue' fiction writing can save us. Those of the most ability have better means for contending with it, but when brute force takes over the mind is sacrificed even to dumb bureaucrats. In the Soviet Union some of the brightest scientists and engineers who thought they had a safer, less vulnerable position because of their work, were slaughtered precisely because they were relied on for superior theories and designs that could not possibly meet the irrational demands of their thug rulers.
no. there were many allowed into the Gulch who were not leaders. I think the best way to answer the question is to direct you to the scene in the book where Eddie stays with the train. Go re-read it. Eddie chose loyalty to the company over himself. I think it's a very poignant part of the story, perfectly demonstrating the return to the primitive. we have debated this in the gulch. I think you will find comments from this post helpful. http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/ad...
for us, it is a perfect opportunity to wake the Eddie's up out there. get them to the movie this weekend...many of them get it, they don't choose correctly. we all find ourselves chained to irrational loyalties...and other irrational junk
There is a difference between loyalty and bushido. The philosophy that you un-think the repercussions of a directive 'just because it is commanded by a superior' is untenable in the Western military (though it was acceptable in the Japanese martial tradition). It is also one of the problems in our modern society in general - eg a policeman following orders he is pretty sure are not legal/moral...but his superior directed him to do so.
People manipulate others by their emotions to produce a result that they could not get by reason. Whenever you make an emotional decision, you need to vet whether it is your own decision or someone else 'pulling the strings'. I do not see Objectivism as unemotional, but I do see it as not non-thinking-emotional.
Song of the Red War Boat. One of my favorites - I memorized it at one time (don't think I can recall all the words right now). I would sometimes declaim it to the sagebrush when I was out riding. Have you heard Leslie Fish's song version? She has a whole set of "KipleFish" songs.
In order to separate mere Objectivists from fanatical Objectivists, I'm going to borrow a term from Fred Saberhagen.
The fanatical Objectivists, such as yourself, I will in future refer to as "goodlife". (conservatives will remain "badlife" for clarity).
"But I have touched a few rare human minds, the jewels of life, who rise to meet the greatest challenges by becoming supremely men. " - 3rd Historian... "Stone Place"
"I touched a mind whose soul was dead . . . " 3rd Historian - "Patron of the Arts"
"Men always project their beliefs and their emotions into their vision of the world. Machines can be made to see in a wider spectrum, to detect every wavelength precisely as it is, undistorted by love or hate or awe.
But still men's eyes see more than lenses do. " -3rd Historian "The Face of the Deep"
"But I have touched a few rare human minds, the jewels of life, who rise to meet the greatest challenges by becoming supremely men. " -3rd Historian "Stone Place"
I reasoned this out a long time ago, and forgot until now that I done so. It is reason that makes us able to survive; it is emotion that gives us reason to survive. The most powerful computer in the world, networked to a billion like itself, will have no reason to exist for itself, no, to use Ayn Rand's final word from "Anthem"... no EGO. Only our primitive, emotion-driven hindbrain gives us that. Without emotion to drive our lives, we're just lumps of goo, sitting around waiting to die. When you read or watch about the great men and women of history... the word "driven" repeatedly shows up. "Driven" is not a rational, reasoned response to the world; it is an emotional one. Without that *emotional* drive, all the reason in the world won't create an iPhone. Dagny Taggart suffered from the same loyalty as Eddie. She just wasn't quite as human as he. As evidenced by her eternal quest for the most alpha male.
Go worship at the altar of the machines, goodlife.
(I wonder how many Objectivists suffer from Asperger's?)
H, when I visited a shrink, years ago on the occasion of two dead parents and a dead marriage, I claimed that we are driven by 2, rather than 3, primary "forces" -- the physical and the mental, with the emotional a part of the mental force. she vehemently disagreed, of course.
I believe that Dagny's matched Eddie's humanity quite well, but theirs was a difference of insight -- like the difference between the author and the reader of poetry. and the fact that she could only be seduced by the alpha male simply shows that she knew that she was the alpha female. insight. -- j
heh. I don't regard her as much of an alpha female. Lillian was more like an alpha female. Dagny was more like an alpha male.
But, she wasn't only seduced by the alpha male. Just by whatever male happened to be handy who SEEMED most alpha at the time. Whenever a more alpha came along, eh, screw you, I never loved you, I just enjoyed you til something better came along.
We have a word for people, especially women, who sell themselves to the highest bidder, regardless of the coin offered.
Hank Rearden's secretary, Miss Ives (was that her name?), and many others were allowed into the Gulch. It was implied at the end when Rearden took off after they attacked his mills.
When I read "Atlas," I thought that Rand was trying to show us that the most vulnerable people were the most hurt by these "helpful" and "socially progressive" policies. Eddie Willers was part of that: someone who, in a better world, would have been Dagny's right-hand man, compensated well for his efforts, and as happy as he let himself be. In the moocher/looter world, he suffered.
I think the opinions here are pretty spot on. Eddie represents the average man and the uncertainty of Eddie's fate is the big question of the book: what happens in the world absent the great creators? Essentially these characters are left in limbo, which is the best they can hope for in a world without the creators.
He chose not to go. Tried to restart the train ' in the name of the best of us' and went crazy presumably having to finally admit defeat. One track mind. There are times you must abandon the effort in pursue of some thing better not the least of which is yourself.
Take a look at page 63 in the novel (assuming the printed copies share the same page numbers). That should give you an idea of why he ended up where he did.
In the desert and they found out from a passing wagon train there were no bridges across the Mississippi. Tried to start the train but had he done so had no where to go. The rabbit was a symbol of what he saw himself become. Although it could of been worse. He could have become a moocher.
My final reading showed him representing the fate of mankind who beat their heads against a wall saying 'we tried so hard. Then dying.' It's like the old story of the floods and the guy on his roof. turned down a ride in a row boat, a power boat and a helicopter. each time saying the Lord will provide. As he drowned he sez presumable in prayer 'Why hast thou foresaken me?" The Lord answers, "What do you mean i sent two boats and a helicopter?"
is a hero of a sort who represents many, many of us
who keep on working regardless. the millions who
consider their "contract with life" to include devotion
to productive behavior, even in the face of determined
adversaries. Thank You! -- j
The theme of Atlas Shrugged was the role of the mind in human existence, and the fate of Eddie Willers, one of the admirable characters in the book, illustrates what everyone had depended on when the best minds are squelched or withdraw from the punishment -- no matter how morally good the victims are.
Eddie Willers' fate in the plot illustrates one aspect of the theme, but in practice when ruthless tyrants take over anyone is vulnerable and no amount of dramatic 'cavalry to the rescue' fiction writing can save us. Those of the most ability have better means for contending with it, but when brute force takes over the mind is sacrificed even to dumb bureaucrats. In the Soviet Union some of the brightest scientists and engineers who thought they had a safer, less vulnerable position because of their work, were slaughtered precisely because they were relied on for superior theories and designs that could not possibly meet the irrational demands of their thug rulers.
I either read something Rand wrote about that, or heard her say it, years ago.
Rand used a similar device in Night of January 16th, where the choice of two endings is not the author's.
Cheers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDc1RHLp...
"For we hold that in all disaster
Of shipwreck, storm, or sword,
A Man must stand by his Master
When once he has pledged his word."
I don't expect you to understand this. The reward is self-respect.
People manipulate others by their emotions to produce a result that they could not get by reason. Whenever you make an emotional decision, you need to vet whether it is your own decision or someone else 'pulling the strings'. I do not see Objectivism as unemotional, but I do see it as not non-thinking-emotional.
Song of the Red War Boat. One of my favorites - I memorized it at one time (don't think I can recall all the words right now). I would sometimes declaim it to the sagebrush when I was out riding. Have you heard Leslie Fish's song version? She has a whole set of "KipleFish" songs.
Jan
In order to separate mere Objectivists from fanatical Objectivists, I'm going to borrow a term from Fred Saberhagen.
The fanatical Objectivists, such as yourself, I will in future refer to as "goodlife". (conservatives will remain "badlife" for clarity).
"But I have touched a few rare human minds, the jewels of life, who rise to meet the greatest challenges by becoming supremely men. "
- 3rd Historian... "Stone Place"
"I touched a mind whose soul was dead . . . "
3rd Historian - "Patron of the Arts"
"Men always project their beliefs and their emotions into their vision of the world. Machines can be made to see in a wider spectrum, to detect every wavelength precisely as it is, undistorted by love or hate or awe.
But still men's eyes see more than lenses do. "
-3rd Historian "The Face of the Deep"
"But I have touched a few rare human minds, the jewels of life, who rise to meet the greatest challenges by becoming supremely men. "
-3rd Historian "Stone Place"
I reasoned this out a long time ago, and forgot until now that I done so. It is reason that makes us able to survive; it is emotion that gives us reason to survive. The most powerful computer in the world, networked to a billion like itself, will have no reason to exist for itself, no, to use Ayn Rand's final word from "Anthem"... no EGO. Only our primitive, emotion-driven hindbrain gives us that. Without emotion to drive our lives, we're just lumps of goo, sitting around waiting to die.
When you read or watch about the great men and women of history... the word "driven" repeatedly shows up. "Driven" is not a rational, reasoned response to the world; it is an emotional one. Without that *emotional* drive, all the reason in the world won't create an iPhone.
Dagny Taggart suffered from the same loyalty as Eddie. She just wasn't quite as human as he. As evidenced by her eternal quest for the most alpha male.
Go worship at the altar of the machines, goodlife.
(I wonder how many Objectivists suffer from Asperger's?)
of two dead parents and a dead marriage, I claimed
that we are driven by 2, rather than 3, primary "forces" --
the physical and the mental, with the emotional a
part of the mental force. she vehemently disagreed,
of course.
I believe that Dagny's matched Eddie's humanity
quite well, but theirs was a difference of insight --
like the difference between the author and the
reader of poetry. and the fact that she could only
be seduced by the alpha male simply shows that
she knew that she was the alpha female. insight. -- j
Lillian was more like an alpha female.
Dagny was more like an alpha male.
But, she wasn't only seduced by the alpha male. Just by whatever male happened to be handy who SEEMED most alpha at the time. Whenever a more alpha came along, eh, screw you, I never loved you, I just enjoyed you til something better came along.
We have a word for people, especially women, who sell themselves to the highest bidder, regardless of the coin offered.
When I read "Atlas," I thought that Rand was trying to show us that the most vulnerable people were the most hurt by these "helpful" and "socially progressive" policies. Eddie Willers was part of that: someone who, in a better world, would have been Dagny's right-hand man, compensated well for his efforts, and as happy as he let himself be. In the moocher/looter world, he suffered.
Eddie Willers did not go to the Gulch because he *chose* not to go.
Galt was actively recruiting Dagney's best men away from her, such as Owen Kellogg.
Galt was meeting Willers occasionally for lunch not just to get information on Dagney but to recruit him.
It was Willers who insisted to Galt that he was not the type of man who could make his own way.
Willers didn't go to the Gulch because he didn't step up and seize the opportunity.
Willers' loss was all on him.
Jan