Government looting and the effectiveness of shrugging
Posted by LionelHutz 11 years, 10 months ago to Economics
In the days of old, our government funded itself by taxing the people through various means, but most prominently by the Income Tax.
As the government becomes the primary looter, the means of revolt expressed in Atlas Shrugged makes a lot of sense.
One deprives the government of their loot by depriving them of your production.
(They can't tax what you don't make).
However, I think we have been in a new era for a while now.
We are in an era where the government doesn't need your tax money.
Think about this. We already know Social Security and Medicare are going to go broke. We've known it for years.
So what sane politician says lets expand the program (Medicare D), and then cut the revenue stream funding it (employee portion of social security)? Both actions drive the programs deeper into debt.
How are things even staying afloat?
The answer is the government is now writing IOUs, selling them to the Chinese for face value, and telling them they may collect it with interest in the future...from our unborn children.
THIS IS TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.
The following data comes from the back page of the 1040 instruction book for the past decade or so:
Percentage of Income derived from Income Taxes and Borrowing.
(Note that while the 1040 data separates income taxes from social security and medicare taxes, I lump them together in this table).
Year Taxes Borrowing
1999 82% 0%
2000 82% 0%
2001 85% 0%
2002 78% 8%
2003 70% 17%
2004 67% 18%
2005 70% 13%
2006 71% 9%
2007 75% 6%
2008 69% 15%
2009 51% 40%
2010 51% 37%
2011 53% 36%
The govt of the USA hasn't been known for compelling people to work in order to keep their income stream coming in.
Shrug all you want. The govt will simply sell more IOUs to the Chinese to make up for it.
At some point in time, the Chinese are going to come to collect on those IOUs.
Is it unreasonable to think that your children may be put into a labor camp?
Agree? Disagree? How does one fight against this?
As the government becomes the primary looter, the means of revolt expressed in Atlas Shrugged makes a lot of sense.
One deprives the government of their loot by depriving them of your production.
(They can't tax what you don't make).
However, I think we have been in a new era for a while now.
We are in an era where the government doesn't need your tax money.
Think about this. We already know Social Security and Medicare are going to go broke. We've known it for years.
So what sane politician says lets expand the program (Medicare D), and then cut the revenue stream funding it (employee portion of social security)? Both actions drive the programs deeper into debt.
How are things even staying afloat?
The answer is the government is now writing IOUs, selling them to the Chinese for face value, and telling them they may collect it with interest in the future...from our unborn children.
THIS IS TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION.
The following data comes from the back page of the 1040 instruction book for the past decade or so:
Percentage of Income derived from Income Taxes and Borrowing.
(Note that while the 1040 data separates income taxes from social security and medicare taxes, I lump them together in this table).
Year Taxes Borrowing
1999 82% 0%
2000 82% 0%
2001 85% 0%
2002 78% 8%
2003 70% 17%
2004 67% 18%
2005 70% 13%
2006 71% 9%
2007 75% 6%
2008 69% 15%
2009 51% 40%
2010 51% 37%
2011 53% 36%
The govt of the USA hasn't been known for compelling people to work in order to keep their income stream coming in.
Shrug all you want. The govt will simply sell more IOUs to the Chinese to make up for it.
At some point in time, the Chinese are going to come to collect on those IOUs.
Is it unreasonable to think that your children may be put into a labor camp?
Agree? Disagree? How does one fight against this?
For those wanting substantiation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Stat...
The Wiki summarizes this situation thusly:
As of July 2012, $5.3 trillion or approximately 48% of the debt held by the public was owned by foreign investors, the largest of which were China and Japan at just over $1.1 trillion each.
So, if they've got 48%, I imagine about another 40% of it is of the "money the USA owes itself" variety.
This amounts to saying "well, we know we can't get the money out of THIS generation. We're just going to stack up debt until we raise a dumber generation that will tolerate a > 50% tax rate". Or, more likely, they just keep printing the money and hope everyone is too dumb to notice they're living under hyperinflation.
The answer isn't to shrug. It's to earn as much as you can and convert those federal reserve notes to precious metals!
They are disrespectful of the people who elected them and those people are too disillusioned to realize it. Those who are given everything have nothing, they have no pride or self-respect; they have no dignity or individuality. That is why they hate and blame. They have become slaves to those they elected to give them everything. They can't stand the reality of their own choices.
Being the one to divide other people's money between the masses is not a noble, Robin Hood-like role.
I want to address the replies in one shot.
1. Not shrugging won't get the job done, therefore shrugging will (or might).
In other words, if A doesn't work, the opposite of A will work.
Sorry, it's not that simple. Tell me why it will. Because I argued with data that it won't.
The main point of what I wrote hasn't been addressed.
The govt is financing over 1/3 of the budget on IOUs right now.
If 20% of the country shrugged, what is stopping them from making it 2/3 in response?
2. Overt slavery is an improvement on the current situation because rebellion is easier.
Really? You'd rather be living Red Dawn? You think that's preferable?
Assuming we repulse the invaders (who are just trying to collect a debt, remember),
why do you think this means the system is going to be remade in a better manner in the aftermath?
3. When the system crashes, there won't be anything for the creditors to take.
Labor camps, remember? They're taking labor from you (or your children).
They're putting you to work in their iPad factories and paying you your daily bag of rice.
4. Move to Texas
We're talking about the federal government here.
How does moving to Texas change what you're giving to the Fed?
5. Move to Chile
Please see:
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/ch...
http://www.taxrates.cc/html/chile-tax-ra...
Solitus - the tax situation there doesn't look like an improvement to me, but overall I have to respect a country that's "only" spending 23.3% of GDP, as I'm writing from a country that's managing to do about 40% right now.
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_2...
What are they spending it on, though?
Wikipedia:
About 3.8 million people (22% of the population) are (as of November 2011) on government welfare programs, via the "Social Protection Card", which includes the population living in poverty and those at a risk of falling into poverty.
Wait for the devaluation/default. The funny thing is we've already defaulted on dollars, which were promises to pay an amount of gold.
Soon we'll be defaulting on promises (tbills) to give people promises we've already defaulted on (dollars).
It's strange that the world can really run like this.
John Galt or Cloward-Piven gets the same result - the collapse of the cultural philosophies that got us in the pile of dung we sit in now.
We do not have the possibility of unlimited growth, or unlimited resources; therefore Ayn's point of reference, as to human capability, is outdated.
The answer? Get a sailboat and leave the US. Like me. I like Chile, a country where the students hold rallies to get their teachers to work more hours. And they have most of the lithium on this planet.
And thanks for buying my blueberries.
C'ya losers.
(I also have my own wild blueberry bushes).
They do get as big as a salad plate, and they float, as I witnessed in the guest bathroom that had just been finished.... UGH!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APxMQStYV...
I just quickly peeked and almost threw my iPad across the room... I could not even make myself touch the screen to animate that hideous beast!!!!! Oh, I need a sedagive!!!
I've gotten bites from spiders and it makes me feel really funky, plus the bite mark lasts for a month.
Ok, the venom once injected, starts to break down the flesh, and when the flesh dies, the camel spider eats it. It's pretty nasty. Yes, they have been known to kill dogs and those guys who have been bitten by them were lucky to not have lost either a leg or arm thanks to the field surgeons. DO NOT BELIEVE THE MSM lies that they are harmless. Stupid numbnuts don't know what they're talking about.
http://www.snorgtees.com/t-shirts/the-on...
We do have the brainpower for unlimited wealth creation. Unfortunately, from the meandering comments about spiders, merlot and whatnot, the typical user on this board does not have the discipline to accomplish it.
I met your heroine in 1973 at MIT. As this disgustingly greasy, fat, hairy old woman signed my copy of The Fountainhead, she blew smoke in my face. I was satisfied when she passed away destitute.
Objectivism is the philosophy of having it both ways. Don't tax my rewards, but make sure I get an educated workforce. And those roads better be fixed so the employees can get to my workplace.
You get the government you vote for, and since you only vote for people like you - well there you go. The politicians are just like you, doing what you tell them to do. Objectivism is not the answer, responsibility is the answer.
You are the answer. Take responsibility for something meaningful, like going to local government meetings. Sunshine via public oversight will make the rats you elected more circumspect in their handling of your affairs.
And this whole thread was premised on the false statement wishing for "the old days" of government income. "In the days of old, our government funded itself by taxing the people through various means, but most prominently by the Income Tax. " No, until 1913 the feds were mostly funded by tariffs.
Then the politicians you elected subcontracted the cash supply. If you hire someone to print money, what did you think they would do to keep busy?
And we do not live on a sailboat. We traveled on mine so my teenagers could see a bigger world. Like Moses and 40 years in the desert, I took a long time getting here to break my kids of their provincial US mindset of entitlement.
It's shipping season and this Objectivism junk keeps crowding up my inbox. The spam filter seems to think you're important.
I don't.
But, before this verbal and deeply intellectual banter begins, I'm curious to know if you have the testicular fortitude to freely admit that you are nothing less than a troll. I'm willing to bet you'll deny such a denunciation.
Point #1, your "unlimited birthing is global suicide" remark is indicative of the contemporary latitudinarian-leaning neurotic that's infected the current Demunist (Democrat + Communist) party as it stands today. If in fact you were truly of a conservative character, you would not have written such a boorish estimation.
Point #2, I recommend you offer your vapid unintellectual services to NASA (Not Another Saudi Arabian, formally known as National Aeronautical and Space Administration). I heard they are looking for a new power source to fly the next generation shuttle into orbit and I believe your ignorance is just the power source they are looking for, perhaps you have insight on how to convert your ignorance into power? I'm beyond sanguine that MOST people in GG most certainly possess the mental discipline required to create wealth. Just because conversations veer off-topic does not mean you can exuviate them because they didn't meet your criterion for on-line forums.
In other words, if you don't like it, get lost, grow up and go bother someone else. Got it?
Point #3, this was a bit tough in my approach. When one considers your entire message, it appears you are bitter. Bitterness is a common trait among the progressives and honestly, that's too bad for you. I'll bet you missed out on a lot in life due to your bitterness, but I digress...
In any case, I don't believe Ms. Rand would have blown smoke in anyone's face UNLESS that person said something incredibly beyond half-baked and short-sighted. What did you leave out in not telling us?
Point #4, it appears you do not understand Objectivism. Can you offer specific examples that prove your imbecilic promulgation?
Point #5, there is no point #5.
Point #6, We in fact, unfortunately, all too often DO NOT get the government we vote for. There are way too many issues in today's voting process and the machines that are used which contribute to this. Other than President Reagan, most people voted with who they got stuck with, thanks to the imbeciles of the GOP who NEVER wanted RR in the first place. It's no wonder why the GOP is where they are at today: they REJECT conservatism. When people have to choose between full-on Liberalism and Liberal-Lite, they most often will vote for the Real Thing, thus, the Repubs will continue to lose.
Objectivism is certainly the answer compared to Liberalism. It goes hand-in-hand with responsibility, which, Liberals never have been and never will be. But, depending on whom you mention, some sham GOPers.
I would like to go on, but my better half is calling on my attention. But I will close on this: NO ONE in GG has a mindset of entitlement. You are definitely on the wrong forum.
It won't change the reality. You are there, I am here, who is changing the motor?
P.S. I am a Progressive. Like Teddy Roosevelt, Richard Nixon and Abraham Lincoln (Progressive Republicans), the future must be built by those who take a risk. (TR - safe food and national parks; RN - OSHA and the EPA; AL - well, he's been covered ad nauseum)
I would comment on your progressive examples, but not in this post...a totally different subject deserves it own post, since it most likely will draw extended conversations.
Don't tax my rewards, but make sure I get an educated workforce and good roads? So one necessarily leads to the other? There's no way to get these things without the tax? This is a bunch of garbage. Just because the govt collects taxes and manages to get work done with it does not mean that was the only way the work was going to get done, that the work is any good or cost effectively done, and most importantly that it was RIGHT for the government to do it in the first place.
I could do without the meandering comments too. One can downvote the occasional one, of course, but when they overwhelm the body of thread replies it gets pretty silly.
as far as calling us losers, that's just silly. you have one point to your name and have no idea what others in here have done or not done in the world. I'd re-check my premises, if I were you, because if you can go this wrong in here, I'm worried about you skippering a sailboat
So the question is, if we really can't 'shrug' then where do we move to? The whole world is turning into one giant toilet bowl, thanks to the commies around the world and to the softy repubs like Senator McLame in AZ.
Damn. Texas huh? IDK yet. I'll wait and see for now.
CLIMATE!!! I meant CLIMATE!!!
In January I get catatonic/paranoid, but I'm rewarded in spring by going into heat. First signs appeared last week and my sweetie is SO happy....
Beer? Bristol Brewing company-Laughing Lab and just about any porter. I use them to make stews.
'Dogfish Head' brewery's Punkin' Ale in the fall, Yuengling anytime, just not in CT }-(
Colorado is completely destroyed. and really downhill since the mid 90s. do not go there. and NM? that state boils my blood everytime I go through there. one emerald city, and the rest of the state languishes. it reminds me of a fiefdom. Albuquerque thrives off of all crony businesses and govt stuff. and some of the most insane environmental/forest service regulatory BS I have ever seen anywhere except for CA
Remember the pathetic cover story the Left told the Americans the reason why the EPA is shutting down oil production in the Gulf? Because it's "too deep"? Well, sure, 5,000 feet down is deep, but it's pretty damn shallow when you compare it to Brazil's 17,000 feet just to reach the bottom to start drilling. Now, what was that about not drilling in the Gulf because it's "too deep"? Come again?
I got the Small Arms Marksmanship ribbon during my shooting with my gasmask on. Does that count?
I also think Mr Clinton got enormously lucky collecting tax receipts from equity yields during the dot-com bubble years.
But I'm not taking anything away from you on this point. Bush 43 started something bad, and Obama hit the accelerator on it.