Just to have it said, about that Trump thing....
I wrote this originally as a reply to Thoritsu's post a while back asking if any OBJ's or Libertarians supported Biden.
But that post - 4 months old - had no comments at all and was down-voted to zero so I figured that might not be the best place to have my say.
So... just to have it said.
To Thoritsu's post -
I think you've made a straw man of the arguments against Trump.
And yes, I voted for Biden.
Prior to The 'Rump (I just made that up (I'm so clever!)- and I never call people names (unlike so many here) - but I like that one and I think I'll keep it.)
Aaanyway, prior to The 'Rump, I'd voted straight Republican since 1984.
But I couldn't in 2016. That one I sat out.
(I live in a blue state and my vote really wouldn't make any difference anyway.)
But 2020 I voted for Biden so I could help The 'Rump lose by the largest possible margin.
As for why... well... Are we living in different worlds?
If you are not horrified and aghast at this man already then obviously no catalog of his sins will convince you.
But what the heck....
> He doesn't believe in anything I do except he fights against Democrats and appoints conservative judges.
> He doesn't believe in free markets. At all. Period.
> He isn't concerned in the slightest about the National Debt - it isn't even on his radar. (Prior to "modern" times I thought the National Debt was the ONLY existential threat to America.)
> He has used the Kelo ruling to take other people's property when it suited him - and bemoaned the same ruling when it went against him.
> He is a man utterly without principle. He will take any position, make any outrageous claim that suits his immediate need. Then categorically deny it later - if needed. And insist it never happened.
> He's convinced himself - and you apparently - that he's a master wheeler-dealer even though his business dealings have left a wake of mega-losses and bankruptcies (Six so far - more to come, I'm sure.)
> He IS a racist. How else can one interpret his call-out to the Proud Boys to "Stand by"?
> He IS a f*cking Sexual Predator for Christ's sake. Openly bragging - on tape! - that he can get away with grabbing women's genitalia because of his wealth and power.
> He is apparently swayed by flattery. In fact it seems the fastest and easiest way to curry his favor. Speak well of him and you are in. Whoever you are. Speak any negative and you are the scum of the Earth - even if He Himself sang your praises just days before. Seriously - what does that say about a person?
> He's the kind of leader who will countenance no dissent - however reasoned - preferring to purge those "disloyal" to him and replace them @ss-kissers and 'yes'-men.
> He honestly thinks he is the smartest person in the room even when surrounded by Top Experts. (I'm not talking only about Fauci here. How many top Generals has he burned through? How many intelligence briefings has he simply scoffed at and dismissed?)
> Almost worst of all - for so many evils can arise from this - He is particularly prone to the intellectual swamp of "conspiracy theories." That pseudo-intellectual morass of non-falsifiable logic wherein the most outlandish claims can be made with both complete certainty and minimal proof.
> His handling of the 'Vid has been just shy of criminal. Born of an off-hand remark of simple vanity that "he probably wouldn't wear one", and doubled-down time and again - against all contrary evidence - that it was little more than the flu - the man is literally responsible for thousands - upon thousands - of unnecessary deaths. (Tens of thousands? Hundreds???) And now, 9 months later, when more Americans have died of "the flu" than were killed in 4 years of WWII and he has nothing to say at all. Silence. Crickets.
> He is obviously compromised by the Russian Dictator. How else to explain that he can shrug off - with no actionable response at all - the most devastating hack in American History with an off-hand "could have been the Chinese" when both CIA and FBI say it was clearly - unequivocally - the Russians.
> And Post Election? Really? Will you really stand for him and defend his conduct Post Election? HIS OWN MEN - NOT JUST ONE - "MEN" - PLURAL - HIS OWN APPONTED MEN SAID THE ELECTION WAS VALID. (Of course they're ALL scum now, working for the enemy.)
You know, I've seen video of White Supremacists rabble-rousing at the podium with an American flag on one side and a Swastika on the other. I'm not calling him a Nazi. Truly, I am not. (Though he obviously has no problem with those that are - see FLATTERY and THE PROUD BOYS above.) But I am saying it is possible to call yourself a true American when in fact you stand for everything America is NOT.
I could go on - and on - but to what end.
A few years ago one of you 'Rump-heads (I just made that one up, too! Oh, I kill myself! Ha!) told me to get out of the Gulch - that I didn't belong here. I bristled up mightily at that (as one might imagine) but the fact is I did leave.
Not because I was run-off, but because there was nothing left of value for me here. And it hurt to see hallowed ground desecrated by barbarians.
Until Peikoff came out for The Rump I thought this site had been taken over by marauding interlopers - that all the actual OBJ's had been run out. Obviously I can't make that claim anymore and I'm not.
But I have always been an Independent Objectivist - I can't really imagine any other kind - and I am content in my position.
But I check back in to The Gulch from time to time to see how bad it's gotten and with the hope that it might get better. Perhaps after The Rump's demise things might get back to normal - with discussions about Objectivism (a topic dear to me) instead of a megalomaniac's latest bizarre claims and his water-carriers convoluted defenses.
But... well... The damage has been quite severe - (And Peikoff didn't help at all!) And with no comments at all to Thoritsu's post it seems all my kind HAVE left.
Whatever.
I know this doesn't count for anything. I'm preaching to the wrong congregation. In one ear and out the other. The blood boils, defenses rise, and the mind shuts off.
But just to have it said.
But that post - 4 months old - had no comments at all and was down-voted to zero so I figured that might not be the best place to have my say.
So... just to have it said.
To Thoritsu's post -
I think you've made a straw man of the arguments against Trump.
And yes, I voted for Biden.
Prior to The 'Rump (I just made that up (I'm so clever!)- and I never call people names (unlike so many here) - but I like that one and I think I'll keep it.)
Aaanyway, prior to The 'Rump, I'd voted straight Republican since 1984.
But I couldn't in 2016. That one I sat out.
(I live in a blue state and my vote really wouldn't make any difference anyway.)
But 2020 I voted for Biden so I could help The 'Rump lose by the largest possible margin.
As for why... well... Are we living in different worlds?
If you are not horrified and aghast at this man already then obviously no catalog of his sins will convince you.
But what the heck....
> He doesn't believe in anything I do except he fights against Democrats and appoints conservative judges.
> He doesn't believe in free markets. At all. Period.
> He isn't concerned in the slightest about the National Debt - it isn't even on his radar. (Prior to "modern" times I thought the National Debt was the ONLY existential threat to America.)
> He has used the Kelo ruling to take other people's property when it suited him - and bemoaned the same ruling when it went against him.
> He is a man utterly without principle. He will take any position, make any outrageous claim that suits his immediate need. Then categorically deny it later - if needed. And insist it never happened.
> He's convinced himself - and you apparently - that he's a master wheeler-dealer even though his business dealings have left a wake of mega-losses and bankruptcies (Six so far - more to come, I'm sure.)
> He IS a racist. How else can one interpret his call-out to the Proud Boys to "Stand by"?
> He IS a f*cking Sexual Predator for Christ's sake. Openly bragging - on tape! - that he can get away with grabbing women's genitalia because of his wealth and power.
> He is apparently swayed by flattery. In fact it seems the fastest and easiest way to curry his favor. Speak well of him and you are in. Whoever you are. Speak any negative and you are the scum of the Earth - even if He Himself sang your praises just days before. Seriously - what does that say about a person?
> He's the kind of leader who will countenance no dissent - however reasoned - preferring to purge those "disloyal" to him and replace them @ss-kissers and 'yes'-men.
> He honestly thinks he is the smartest person in the room even when surrounded by Top Experts. (I'm not talking only about Fauci here. How many top Generals has he burned through? How many intelligence briefings has he simply scoffed at and dismissed?)
> Almost worst of all - for so many evils can arise from this - He is particularly prone to the intellectual swamp of "conspiracy theories." That pseudo-intellectual morass of non-falsifiable logic wherein the most outlandish claims can be made with both complete certainty and minimal proof.
> His handling of the 'Vid has been just shy of criminal. Born of an off-hand remark of simple vanity that "he probably wouldn't wear one", and doubled-down time and again - against all contrary evidence - that it was little more than the flu - the man is literally responsible for thousands - upon thousands - of unnecessary deaths. (Tens of thousands? Hundreds???) And now, 9 months later, when more Americans have died of "the flu" than were killed in 4 years of WWII and he has nothing to say at all. Silence. Crickets.
> He is obviously compromised by the Russian Dictator. How else to explain that he can shrug off - with no actionable response at all - the most devastating hack in American History with an off-hand "could have been the Chinese" when both CIA and FBI say it was clearly - unequivocally - the Russians.
> And Post Election? Really? Will you really stand for him and defend his conduct Post Election? HIS OWN MEN - NOT JUST ONE - "MEN" - PLURAL - HIS OWN APPONTED MEN SAID THE ELECTION WAS VALID. (Of course they're ALL scum now, working for the enemy.)
You know, I've seen video of White Supremacists rabble-rousing at the podium with an American flag on one side and a Swastika on the other. I'm not calling him a Nazi. Truly, I am not. (Though he obviously has no problem with those that are - see FLATTERY and THE PROUD BOYS above.) But I am saying it is possible to call yourself a true American when in fact you stand for everything America is NOT.
I could go on - and on - but to what end.
A few years ago one of you 'Rump-heads (I just made that one up, too! Oh, I kill myself! Ha!) told me to get out of the Gulch - that I didn't belong here. I bristled up mightily at that (as one might imagine) but the fact is I did leave.
Not because I was run-off, but because there was nothing left of value for me here. And it hurt to see hallowed ground desecrated by barbarians.
Until Peikoff came out for The Rump I thought this site had been taken over by marauding interlopers - that all the actual OBJ's had been run out. Obviously I can't make that claim anymore and I'm not.
But I have always been an Independent Objectivist - I can't really imagine any other kind - and I am content in my position.
But I check back in to The Gulch from time to time to see how bad it's gotten and with the hope that it might get better. Perhaps after The Rump's demise things might get back to normal - with discussions about Objectivism (a topic dear to me) instead of a megalomaniac's latest bizarre claims and his water-carriers convoluted defenses.
But... well... The damage has been quite severe - (And Peikoff didn't help at all!) And with no comments at all to Thoritsu's post it seems all my kind HAVE left.
Whatever.
I know this doesn't count for anything. I'm preaching to the wrong congregation. In one ear and out the other. The blood boils, defenses rise, and the mind shuts off.
But just to have it said.
Nothing you say can rationally justify those acts.
đź‘Ž
I gave 15 rational , highly provocative and otherwise damaging arguments against your position .
Your only comeback is it I couldn't rationally justify my vote.
Maybe we weren't reading the same page but it seems to me that I not only presented my case but unless you can defend against it, I would seem to have won the debate.
Do you have anything, Sir to refute the claims that I just made - claims that I believe to be clear and obvious presentations of known fact!
"I will vote for Hillary Clinton."
https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...
đź‘Ž
You gave zero rational arguments to vote for either Hillary or Biden.
Demos abandon the constitution a long time ago but when your in business, one has to deal with that world.
Proud boys?...check their skin color...you'd be shocked!
No wonder your thumbs up score matches your user name...
All dissent aside, I have no problem rationally debating facts with you...so far, I have seen none.
I agree about the acquisition of property thing but far an few large business are not guilty of that in a progressive world.
How say you sir?
Also, it seems that you have not tried to vet things out, there is a plethora of information out there; and I not talking about Q related posts...just read the Epoch Times, it's the most objective non partisan paper out there.
Biden is the most [proven] corrupt Politian ever x 10 to the 10th measured in light years and has sold out America to enrich himself and at our expense...he puts mafia bosses, hiltery and billy bob to shame. It should be obvious his wish list of appointees will bring the Kakistocracy to new lows.
We'd like things to be perfect but that is unattainable, sad to say these days but there are a Lot Bigger Bitches to be making...right now, we are fighting a global swamp...if we ever win [fat chance] then and only then can we nick pick everything to death.
I have to agree with Freedom's comment.
1 against deep state
2 far more than deep state. he is concerned about foreign takeover of jobs, industry, and politicians, libertarians could say that is ok, objectivists would not.
3. agree
4. no comment from me
5. vague generality, part untrue, part applicable to all in politics and business.
6 has done quite well in international agreements, middle east, trade.
7 sheer smear lie. Goebels type repetition with no evidence. ignorance showing.
8 to get so excited by bar-room talk so as to use sacrilegious and gutter language shows deep psychosis. Talk is rather different from well known characters who have raped and killed
9 meaningless, implies he should be indifferent to being helped or hindered.
"I am so clever" self praise is the only kind you get.
10 wrong. in fact he puts up with obvious opponents
11 How many? Compare? experts=ex-perts.
12 his accusations, eg in the recent speech, are well founded. This one is a typical smear technique eg repeating the smear without any evidence or example.
13 I have seen the charge made that it is millions, why so modest to say thousands? State governors, China, are innocent of course. "all contrary evidence" = no evidence. If only deep state had allowed HCQ!
14 collusion story, invented by HC, masses of charges, millions of dollars could not establish one fact.
15 His own men (pardon my not quoting capitals), all (or one exception?) courts have not heard the cases so judgement not made. and the GoP are not his men.
Against the Rump-master himself who lives in that world?
Is there a point you'd like to refute, Mr Shipley?
Statements like this:
"> He is obviously compromised by the Russian Dictator. How else to explain that he can shrug off - with no actionable response at all - the most devastating hack in American History with an off-hand "could have been the Chinese" when both CIA and FBI say it was clearly - unequivocally - the Russians."
If you are talking the election hack, IT HAS BEEN CLEARLY PROVEN LOTS OF THE DATA WENT TO CHINA! They have tracked the data packets and identified the servers and their physical locations.
Another one: "He honestly thinks he is the smartest person in the room even when surrounded by Top Experts. (I'm not talking only about Fauci here. How many top Generals has he burned through? How many intelligence briefings has he simply scoffed at and dismissed?)"
Uh, the great Fauci (masks no, masks yes, social distancing, masks no, uh, no HCQ, uh...) Generals? Did it ever cross your mind that some Generals are bad? Not Patriots. Bad guys. Bought. Blackmailed. Ever heard of the "Hammer"? Go look it up, Brennans toy he used to blackmail huge numbers of politicians and military people. Some, like McChristle, were traitors before they got out, they created 3 companies that specialized in using little bots to make a lot of your statements, and it is called "information warfare". The great thing is YOU PAID for it! DARPA developed the software for use against enemies in propaganda warfare, and these guys stole it, and used it as companies hired by the demonrats to "steer the social consciousness" (aka "illegal interference in an election"). Go watch "Shadowgate" where some whistleblowers from CIA tell you how it works and shows you all the corporate connections.
I only engage because I do believe we should all question, inquire and find facts, however, you seem mired in the swamp if lies and propaganda spewed by lamestream media, and have taken it to heart, yet go find the facts of your statements (and you cannot use Google, or any search engine but DuckDuckGo, because they are masking all the data).
Just do not make any large financial decisions until you have evolved and factual, inquiring mind that requires proof before commitment.....
I actually don't think President Trump's flaws has much impact on Objectivist ideas. I do see the size and scope of the government as contrary to Objectivism. I'm concerned that I hear more people use "capitalism" as a word for general shading dealings.
My guesses as to the cause are a) a natural tendency in democratic gov'ts for voters to vote themselves money from the treasury, b) society losing sight of the founding principles or seeing them as not applicable to the modern world, and c) money becoming electronic.
I think electronic money is great and some form of cryptocurrency will become a reserve store of value. BUT, bank notes were already an abstraction of value, and the human mind struggles to see the value traded when you transfer on Venmo or when a company charges a credit card.
I generally agree with the things you say in the post, but I don’t think President Trump’s comment about grabbing women is related to sexual assault. He said, “they let you do it.” If he had said, “the cops won’t believe them,” then I would call it that talking about sexual assault. I suspect this kind of dirty banter is common in show biz.
All of this is of very little matter to Objectivism. More than ever I think the president, unless it were someone who ran on that issue like Ron Paul, doesn’t have much impact on the size and scope of the government.