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Who is our real enemy?

Posted by NealS 10 years, 3 months ago to Politics
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I just had a chilling thought. If this government is our enemy, are not those that still continue to support it also our enemy?

What is more dangerous to us now, the government or all those that still support it?

Will the danger change as we get closer to the next election? Better or worse?

Today I'm flat out losing some old friends over the issues. I can't tell if they just became nasty or just plain stupid.

What do we need to do to prevent our demise into the darkness?


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  • Posted by cher6877 10 years, 3 months ago
    Both are dangerous. The government follows and enforces the insane ideas of all those who support it. It will get worse as we get closer to the election. Desperate libs will come out of the woodwork to scheme their plots for illegal voting, making up lies and tearing the ones apart who may actually have a true love for America. And Obama and his cronies will try to shove through any and all things on his "America destroying agenda."
    If I lose friends over the issues so be it. If they really feel they need to support what has been going on in the last 6 years than they do not love the country they live in and they do not have pride in all things that helped make America the best place on earth to live.
    We have so much to do to prevent our demise that I am truly at a loss when it comes to answering that question. I don't know where to begin so I have to begin with the beginning by saying, "God help us!" I do believe that he has faith in America and the good things we have always done to build this country. So we have to go back and do what we have always done, "In God We Trust".
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
    "Today I'm flat out losing some old friends over the issues. I can't tell if they just became nasty or just plain stupid.
    What do we need to do to prevent our demise into the darkness? "
    Read How to Win Friends and Influence People? Much of it is obvious and ham-handled sales stuff, but it's also timeless. It's a reminder about stuff you already know to avoid losing old friends and making new ones.
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    • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago
      How to Win Friends and Influence People is a great book, but it is not the person who is offensive in this case. It is the message. AR's message has become anathema to so many that one gets branded as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., etc. just for thinking it, let alone saying it. No amount of sugar coating can get past a message that offends. Objectivist evangelists have to accept that their message will get rejected thoroughly by many people, just like Christian evangelists have been rejected by many people for two millenia. I am not trying to start an Objectivism or atheism vs. Christianity discussion here. All I am saying is that losing friends over the issues should be expected by anyone professing a message that is not approved by everyone. The front lines takes the flak.
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      • Posted by khalling 10 years, 3 months ago
        You make great points j. Note how effective the strategy is for the name callers. and they aren't that many. most people just watch and listen, remain careful in what they say or-careful to avoid taking a stand, precisely because of name callers. Those name callers are few but they are huge bullies. I reminded of Neill Ferguson in his epic fued with Krugman, something like, you are a big bully. and where I come from, there is just one way to deal with bullies....
        it certainly isn't win their friendship. When people are saying or writing outrageous things, they should be met with outrage.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago
          Thanks, khalling. Nice example with the Ferguson/Krugman feud. I had forgotten about that one. The name calling and bullying is what the liberals do when they can't win through the merits of their policies in the arena of ideas.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
          "When people are saying or writing outrageous things, they should be met with outrage. "
          If don't think outrage is helpful in promoting liberty b/c there's a whole industry that deals in phony outrage to get attention.

          I'm not talking about outrage in the sense of being open in explaining something to someone who asked or showed interest. I'm talking about name-calling, carrying on, and acting like a disgruntled gov't worker.
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          • Posted by khalling 10 years, 3 months ago
            I am outraged DAILY...many times....
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
              "I am outraged DAILY...many times...."
              Would you have been less outraged at other times and place, say just after the American Revolution, 16th Century Transylvania where people were free from Catholic dogma, the ancient Greek city-states, the Roman Republic before the Punic wars, the time of the Magna Carta, the Renaissance? Those would be my favorite times.

              The Renaissance would be up there for me b/c people were throwing out old dogmas, the printing press was making new ideas available, technology grew allowing hugely increased production, and a mechanistic world view took hold. Take that Renaissance to extreme, where the trick is figuring out what creative material people will want b/c machines can easily do the work of making things for us. Instead of a printing press, give everyone a printing press and ability to share instantly what they create. It's like a Renaissance taken to an absurd extreme such that it realizes the ancient dream of having someone/something to do all the work for us. The next huge ancient dream, going back to Gilgamesh, is a treatment for aging. There are probably more years between us and William Harvey than between us and a partial cure for aging.

              Maybe none of that relates to outrage. Maybe you're outraged we're squandering what we have, and you use it to motivate yourself to action.
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              • Posted by khalling 10 years, 3 months ago
                I am always productive. mr glass half full, do you work as hard as you can to denounce the evil all around you? or do you go along and get along...thrill at the prospect of a govt printing press...use valuable resources to not once but TWICE help elect a destroyer for President? be proud as you tell your sons when they are older you helped heap on debt to their lives..make them slaves
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
                  "I am always productive."
                  Why are you so miserable and nasty? I talk about other great times in history and how you can still live in a great time and be outraged that we squander the opportunity to be even better and use that outrage as motivation to fight to stop the squandering. You just write a bunch of nasty stuff. You're not miserable and angry b/c of some guy you've never met.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
        "No amount of sugar coating can get past a message that offends."
        I think AR's message would be widely popular if it were stated clearly. Most of the time when I hear the ideas discussed, by AR supporters and opponents, they are contrary to my understanding of the books.
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        • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 3 months ago
          AR's message is widely popular and widely unpopular at the same time. The battle lines between producers vs. looters and moochers are clear.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 3 months ago
            "The battle lines between producers vs. looters and moochers are clear. "
            This is false. Most people consider themselves the good guys, and a subset of that is they consider themselves producers. They don't like looters. We hear that quote from hardcore looters taking advantage of the turmoil in Furguson as a good spot to steal b/c the police were occupied with protests. Those hardcore looters wrongly thought they were the good guys.

            Most people are not that bad. They seem to think someone else should pay for their needs, but if you showed them that they wouldn't like it. The simple narrative of a struggle between the righteous and the evil is an often-used tool to manipulate people.
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            • Posted by $ winterwind 10 years, 3 months ago
              A person is not a "good guy" just because he considers himself one, or considers himself a producer. There is an objective standard by which a person can be judged.
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            • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 3 months ago
              This is denying reality....thinking you're moral when your actions promote evil. "You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality". AR
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