I am leaving Galt Gulch
I have had enough! I feel so mad that Galt Gulch has turned into a sounding board for the Trump Campaign. I cannot in good conscience support an online forum that is used to spread misinformation about what is happening in America right now. The US is on the edge of collapse and should it come to past. It will be Trump who is blamed because of his incompetent COVID-19 response.
Even if the US come out of the current crisis as anything but a third world country will completely remarkable. Trump is no objectivist. He is in fact an "Orren Boyle". Trump is one of the worst offenders when comes to government corruption and always has been, but yet he is our president. Worse still, there posters who post shit that come from dubious source, promoting Trump and if you would believe it actually doing a good job in spite of the fact, the US faces the biggest economic crisis in its history and faced the worst outbreak since the Spanish flu. Trump can do no wrong on this website. I have had enough. No more of my money will go down this wannabe objectivist forum.
Even if the US come out of the current crisis as anything but a third world country will completely remarkable. Trump is no objectivist. He is in fact an "Orren Boyle". Trump is one of the worst offenders when comes to government corruption and always has been, but yet he is our president. Worse still, there posters who post shit that come from dubious source, promoting Trump and if you would believe it actually doing a good job in spite of the fact, the US faces the biggest economic crisis in its history and faced the worst outbreak since the Spanish flu. Trump can do no wrong on this website. I have had enough. No more of my money will go down this wannabe objectivist forum.
You are also incorrect about this being the worst outbreak since the Spanish Flu... The 1969 Hing Kong Flu killed substantially more (populations adjusted,) The Asian Flu in the mid 1950's also killed more.
Negative about Trump: Peter Navarro and the trade war with China. Trump is right to not let the US be a pushover to China, but a more laissez faire approach would be more consistent with Objectivism.
COVID-19 response: He responded relatively early and isolated America from what could have been a whole lot worse pandemic here in this country. He probably overreacted, not underreacted, but governing is a lot harder than any of us realize. When I was a Faculty Senate President, one of the bigger issues that I had to deal with was supporting something I was personally opposed to because supporting it was the position that granted more freedom to individuals. I disagree with taking on federal debt the way that he has, but he probably governed as little as he could have in response to COVID-19. Would you rather have lockdown like China, or is it OK for an epidemic to run rampant?
If Trump had governed to any significant degree differently on COVID than he has, he would have been re-impeached and kicked out of office.
Trump is not an Objectivist, but he has navigated a very difficult 3.5 years about as well as anyone could have.
Put down you MSM and look around, its sunny and nice outside (if you ignore the MSM induced riots). Where I live, people think it’s a deliberate attempt to throw the election; people are getting on with their lives. I will always defend you right to free speech, I just won’t support you when it comes to woefully destroying an economy so that your voice may be heard. I’m done with folks like you, we need a divorce, hopefully amicably. You guys take California and New York, we’ll take everything else.
Goodbye, I hope you find your peace elsewhere.
Kennedy was the opposite of "aligned to freedom and getting rid of government". See Ayn Rand's "The Fascist New Frontier" in the anthology The Ayn Rand Column: Written for the Los Angeles Times. Audio at https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/govern....
There is no "Ayn Rand skew", which is another smear. Ayn Rand formulated a philosophy with principles, not a "skew", and knew how to apply her principles. That is what this forum is supposed to be about, for those with an interest and some knowledge of Ayn Rand who come here knowing its purpose -- not denouncing the purpose as an irrelevant "skew" as they exploit the forum to pursue the opposite of its purpose. Nor does support of Ayn Rand's ideas mean being a "huge devotee as a religion", which is another personal smear and the opposite of Ayn Rand's ideas and understanding.
Ayn Rand's novels and philosophy are not about a "deep state machine" "conspiracy". Atlas Shrugged is a novel about the role of ideas in determining the course of a culture and the lives of individuals, not a "good clue as to the deep state machine".
Her thinking covered all the main branches of philosophy, including morality and the nature of reason, on which her political principles are based. She showed how actions follow from basic ideas, not secret conspiracies in an intellectual vacuum. Her philosophy did not begin and end with political philosophy, let alone superficial sound bites and slogans posing as political philosophy, let alone conservative populism and swaggering Trumpism.
The pronouncement that Donald Trump is '"as close to a workable version of Objectivism you are going to get" is an ignorant falsehood in many ways. It shows no understanding of Ayn Rand at all, and not much of Trump either. "Trump's anti-conceptual unprincipled Pragmatism" characterizes his thought processes, which he illustrates repeatedly in his loutish, often incoherent rambling speeches, decision making, and actions, often undermining or attacking the rights of the individual -- such as his most recent eminent domain initiative. That identification of Trump's thought processes is not a "label" from an "old Russian Kommisar".
The anti-conceptual mentality cannot be explained to someone arrested at the level of the anti-conceptual mentality; Trump could not understand it at this stage of his life after what he has done to his own thinking. This forum is intended for those who who do have an interest in Ayn Rand's ideas, which ideas are not conspiracy mongering and are not 'follow the man with the white hat' while spouting eclectic populist slogans and emotionalism, all without regard for the cause of the problem and what is required to solve it beyond a range of the moment "deal".
John F Kennedy was a 1960s "liberal" statist, not "aligned to freedom and getting rid of government". Ayn Rand (who was not an anarchist advocating "getting rid of government") consistently discussed the nature of such government and its policies, including the specifics of the politics of her time. That included the Kennedy administration, which itself broke new ground in extending statism. In discussing the meaning and implementation of ideas she went deeply beyond the Kennedy "Camelot" mystique-fad of the time (which apparently still has followers today).
In particular, Ayn Rand's lecture (reprinted as an article) "The Fascist New Frontier" at Boston's Ford Hall Forum in 1962 analyzed Kennedy's own statements underlying his statist-collectivist actions. She compared Kennedy's statements with the same principles enunciated in Weimar Germany and into the Nazi era (and by the Italian fascist Mussolini). That included the program of the National Socialist (Nazi) Party of Germany in 1920 which she quoted from and discussed. Referring to that analysis in "The Fascist New Frontier" article is not a "crutch to define everything", another ignorant personal smear.
Conspiracy mongering about the "CIA" with a claimed "mysterious assassination" of Kennedy does not explain away Kennedy's statism or refute Ayn Rand's principled analysis of it in and its part in the cultural trend. It does not convert Kennedy into "aligned to freedom and getting rid of government". Neither does the fact that he was against the Soviets -- even though he dangerously bungled Cuba policy -- as a matter of nationalist interests in foreign policy between nation states. Kennedy was in fact a "liberal" statist with fascist premises.
Those attracted to Atlas Shrugged and interested enough to come to this forum ought to try to understand Ayn Rand's ideas that make her novel what it is and which made it possible. This forum is not the place for sneering misrepresentation and personal attacks against "Objectivists" and resentment of references to Ayn Rand's analysis as a "skew" and "huge devotee as a religion". It is not a place for anti-intellectual conspiracy mongering and emotional outbursts by conservative populists following Donald Trump's anti-intellectualism and statism. This forum was supposed to be better than a clone of loutish internet warriors engaged in meaningless futile battle at Breitbart and countless other such web digital zoos.
That’s a Genius concept Fred any other things that are Trumps fault?
Let’s hear your brilliant Objectivism explaining how Trump caused anti fa or the OFA. Or how Trump is responsible for Floyd’s death.
Dobrien's post is a prime example of the topic of this thread: why Fred left what is supposed to be an Ayn Rand forum, not an obsequious "sounding board" for the drum beat of the Trump campaign, with defiant denunciations of those who don't go along with the hijacking. The forum is (or was) for those with an interest in Ayn Rand's ideas, not anti-intellectual conservative populism displacing them in following Donald Trump.
Dobrien has no business sneering at "Objectivism" and telling anyone we are "welcome to leave" for opposing Trump idolatry, which he denounces as "ranting about Trump". Political policies, ideas and actions can be rationally analyzed and discussed: Criticizing the anti-conceptual mentality of politicians and their emotional followers is not a crime here.
I prefer the attitude of an Australian commentator, TdeF, who wrote on
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/trum...
the only person standing against the tide of the non science called Climate Change is President Trump. Boris is a Green. Merkel is Green. Macron is Green. And Morrison may as well be. The only one to stand up to the hand puppet they call Greta was Trump. And the only ones to stand up to President Xi are Trump and Morrison. As China takes absolute control of Hong Kong and openly threatens Taiwan and quietly backs North Korea, we only have Trump to defend us against two nuclear missile armed countries. .. ..
The Communist and big business alliance we call the Greens is dominant everywhere. No borders, windmills, world government by the UN and the failure of WHO to warn the world about the pandemic is just a sign of what happens when you politicise science and medicine. The UN also wants to rule the world, with American money.
We need Donald Trump. America needs Donald Trump. And the people trying to tear him down are the same Extreme socialist/Green/big business alliance which utterly dominates the Democrats. Fake news, fake science, fake medicine, fake electricity. Even Michael Moore can see it and he is as Left as they come.
The "so what" here on this forum is about the anti-intellectual conservative populists, who also contradict Ayn Rand's philosophy of reason and individualism, but come here promoting conspiracy theories and Trump idolatry while resenting mention of Ayn Rand's ideas on an Ayn Rand forum.
We do not "need" Donald Trump, who is doing nothing positive beyond the range of the moment even when he does it for that long mixed with his statism. But he is all that stood between us and the Clinton green socialist mafia. That is the problem: that something like him is all there is. That matters. Pragmatism does not "work" and Trump is not a solution.
That he is all that stood between us and the establishment that Clinton represents doesn't make Trump good (beyond his persistent willingness to stand up to them) let alone worthy of being idolized, and it doesn't mean that his partial finger in the dike will have any lasting affect as the most radical leftist politics of oppressive thought and social controls with its economic plundering and destruction become more and more prevalent.
The constant drum beat of "never Trumpism" rhetoric is indeed mostly wrong: the popular criticism of him in the media and academia is mostly for the wrong reasons in a continuous emotional barrage of distortions, conspiracy theories (like Russian "collusion") and manufactured crises -- and serves as a constant diversion from what he and his populist supporters should be criticized for, including their own inability to intellectually defend the good even to the extent they might want to. That takes a lot more than conspiracy theories and running around loudly calling everything "fake".
Trump may very well be blamed for the alarming growing problems -- he is blamed for everything, usually creating a distraction from his most serious flaws that should be criticized. But worse is that capitalism will be blamed for the problems along with Trump, who is falsely equated with capitalism.
As for the virus, Trump is not alone in his lack of understanding principles of what to do. He has a lot of company, especially from governors who react to everything as an excuse for more statist coercion in the name of 'emergency', while not knowing what to do about emergency and generally making things worse.
BTW, I do not think US is on the edge of collapse, but I'm not complacent about the long-term problem of people's philosophical view of liberty and the role of gov't.
There are so many people pursuing their dreams, building businesses, technologies, etc. If you just read the crap on this website, you'd think we're on the edge of collapse because people are obsessed with group identities and insulting one another based on them.
I will follow you on other forums more consistent with Rand's writings as I understand them. I am @cgervasi on Twitter.
These are illustrated by the heroes in her novels. The Fountainhead is not a political novel at all; it is a psychological novel portraying the independent man versus second-handers. She wrote Atlas Shrugged in order to portray her vision of the "ideal man", with the theme as the role of the mind and reason in man's life and what happens without it. The plot shows the contrast both for the life of the individual and on a cultural scale.
But she recognized that the social conditions for such a proper human life are not infinitely elastic. She experienced first hand growing up in the Soviet Union the deadly consequences of anti-reason, anti-individualist premises clashing with her own sense of life.
Her first novel was an historical novel exposing as a warning to the world what she had witnessed, the news of which was being largely suppressed in the name of collectivist "virtue".
For much of her adult life she publicly emphasized politics from her philosophical perspective because she saw so clearly what was happening in the trend towards irrationalism, altruism, collectivism and statism. Virtuous individuals subject to injustice by force and fraud often cannot "simply refuse to be denied". While writing Atlas Shrugged, as she observed the parallels to the plot all around her, she told herself that the book would prevent itself from becoming history.
It is a shame that there is so little interest in or understanding of Ayn Rand on this forum, but whether or not this country literally "collapses" is not the issue. It may or may not suddenly collapse in part, in some unpredicted way as a result of increasing instability and growing radical elements, but the increasing statist injustices are harming everyone now and are becoming worse and more threatening.
A mixed economy does not harm everyone in the same way, depending on where he lives and his own circumstances. Professionals with reliable high incomes in upscale liberal communities may very well feel complacent, at least for the near term foreseeable future and while they are willing to tolerate the ransom of high taxes -- but others are being badly hurt, or threatened, and justifiably don't like it.
"High tech" illiberal "liberals" and socialists, such as at Google, acting as junior versions of the Robert Stadler archetype, succeeding in their careers for now in spite of the collectivism, ignore the injustice caused by their policies, but the individuals and families being overrun by sanctimonious hysterical race-rioters are being badly hurt. So are those in the inner cities being slaughtered by their own neighbors. So are those losing their property to government acquisitions and regulatory takings in rural areas, or those being put out of business by the oppressive viros and other regulations and taxes.
Ayn Rand's philosophy is not synonymous with politics, and her political philosophy is certainly not conservative populism and not the defiantly anti-intellectual conspiracy mongering. But for the same reason she emphasized the politically imposed destruction from bad philosophical trends, we have every right for concern today -- including alarm at the radical left ideological takeover of the politically dominating Democratic Party and its increasing oppressive abuse employing government power for its green socialism and race/ethnicity obsession -- together with intellectually weak response from the "right" and the hopelessly destructive "moderates".
The country as a whole may not at the moment be literally at the "edge of collapse", but for those directly hit it is collapse, and those who see the threat do properly see with alarm what is happening to others and the implication of the "edge" for themselves.
We have done our homework and yes it was painful to find out that more than 1/2 the world and most of governments are complicit against conscious value creating human beings.