When you have two lines of people facing each other with shields and clubs -- you have "sides".

I was walking through a plaza in Chicago in the mid 70's lost in thought and suddenly noticed that the guy next to me was in a classic brown shirt with a red arm band with a swastica on it. then I notice a couple dozen people around me similary dressed. I had wandered into a Nazi gathering. I scurried out past the line of police surrounding them. I felt chilled but not in danger.

I wonder if the same would be true if I accidentally wandered into an antifa gathering.

Thanks. I appreciate hearing different ideas.

Oh well, I guess we're just going to agree to disagree on this issue. I still stand by my post.

Re: "We do have a clear view of the statist collectivist ceo's who have walked away from Trump." Trump should never have engaged with establishment CEO's in the first place. Good riddance!

"watch in the coming months. anarchy foments"
I haven't seen any explanation of how a conspiracy would work, but I"ll try to make one up.
1. President Trump's critics come up with a plan to undermine him.
My thought: When it comes to his job and actions as president, President Trump is nothing extraordinary, so I can't see people singling him out for a conspiracy any more than Obama, W Bush, Clinton, or Bush. But I accept at that level there's always an incentive for political shenanigans.
2. The conspirators hire agitators to rile up extremists: racists and communists.
My thought: If the conspirators and agitators pull this off, there had to be a good number of extremists present already. The conspirators would not have the power to radicalize large numbers of people under the radar. They could only tip the scales a little.
3. The plan would be to undermine President Trump in these ways:
a) Any time racist idiots do anything, some of President Trump's critics are quick to blame it on Trump. The president always takes some heat for stuff that happens on his watch. Trump takes even more heat because open racists support him and he doesn't decisively disavow them.
b) The conspirators knew that President Trump would mishandle the response.
c) Even if none of this works, just having a crisis opens opportunities for change. So people who want new gun laws, more surveillance, more police powers might get them if there are frequent riots.
My thought: I see A, but none of the rest. Regarding B, President Trump might have delivered that standard message he gave this past weekend. His critics would have harped on it no matter what, but even a humdrum message condemning violence and expressing sympathy for people hurt might have been a win for him. And there was a chance he would have turned on some of his locked-and-loaded bravado and it would have resonated and strengthened him. Regarding C, a crisis can open opportunities, but there's no guarantee they'll be what the conspirators want. Crises come along naturally frequently enough that the conspirators could just wait for the next one and focus on their plan to exploit it rather than fomenting the crisis itself.

Maybe the difference between me and people who see a conspiracy is that I find his comments on Monday reprehensible and stupid. I say stupid b/c he could have let the issue die, focused on other things, and his critics would be left trying to milk everything they can out of a tragedy. I think they're reprehensible because it sounded like he was defending Nazis. If the comments weren't really offensive and the media presentation of them tainted my view, then the conspiracy is totally working on me because I find him patently offensive. It's working on a lot of people. If the media have this much power of manipulation, why did they even need to agitate racists?

"there is definitely stuff behind the curtain."
What's the conspiracy and qui bono? I usually see human error where other people see conspiracies, but in this case I cannot even the potential conspiracy scenario. Suppose Kessler is an agent of a conspiracy. How would the plan go?

I hear what you are saying, but completely disagree. I find the way President Trump handled in on Monday (not in any of his early comments) appalling. I think the corporate-owned media may have a right-wing bias at times, but I don't think it came into play in any way because this isn't a left/right issue. I think President Trump shot himself in the foot for attention-seeking reasons or reasons I do not understand.

"We need a broad reset, with all rights as "absolutes"."
I agree. They're guaranteed in the Constitution for the unusual situations, e.g. Nazi protests or someone shooing up a school, when reasonable people might vote for the gov't to take away people's rights. The Constitution is for these abnormal situations, making the gov't respect rights regardless of what the majority thinks. I agree we need a reset and to start respecting them absolutely.

except he is paid. His PR firm has taken money from Mr. Soros many times. But you have a point. He is an agitator.

I know no details of this person but conjecture as follows:
He is not paid, nor a plant, he has not changed his mind.
This person is an attention seeker.
A very profitable outlet for attention seekers is to be a political activist.
Right, wrong, good or bad have no relevance.
There is the adrenalin from street marches with placards and raised fists and the thrill of
making inflammatory statements and speeches in front of adulating applauding audiences.

Actually, CG, there isn't a much better way to express it in the vernacular. Using your example, a Mafia war broke out in my home town in my late teens and early twenties and the press certainly reported crimes as being committed by both sides. Just what "sides" do you think the press referenced? When Trump condemned violence by ALL SIDES, it was quite clear to me what he was talking about. For the left stream media to spin it any other way was just the usual "we hate Trump" no matter what he does or says narrative. The only mistake Trump made, IMHO, was he caved to the Communist News Network demands and then they fried him for not being more quick about it!

Edit add: Actually, the left stream media wanted to create the scenario where they could force Trump to condemn ONLY the neo-Nazis and let their thuggish "side" (Antifa) off the hook. Since Trump caved, their plan worked.

Perhaps the "new Reichstag fire" is already lit as American history is thrown upon the pyre.

Khalling, agitators do not do this stuff for free, not on a professional level such as "switch sides to fit in". So, who is funding all this, who pays these guys, and who is pursuing what agenda?

And his boy Rahm Emanuelle, "never let a good crisis go to waste".

It had to be allowed to mature and escalate to get the next Darwin Award participant in a position to perform. The car thing was a set up as well. The cops bailed out. Macullife has been caught lying: http://thefederalistpapers.org/us/vir...

I am forced to say that ewv is correct in his position it is bad philosophy, Although I also add in moral phlosophy along Heinleins lines, as there is no moral structure that anyone associated with politics, social "reform" or government/legal system follow.

That is in the works, right now we are at the election phase. They will force Trump out, and put a Republicrat "they can work with" in, to continue the sabotage.

That is true, they are a tiny minority, there are more Humong in the US that Neo Nazi and KKK together.However, they are SO very useful in sparking a riot, getting sped up for a killing, and any stupid thing you want done. Remember the dude who killed the 2 guys on the MAX in Portland? Spun up by "someone" to go prove his right to be a "warriror for the right". The agitators on both sides are using the tools that both sides have installed, hot button words, 30 second sound bites, useless moronic slogans and propaganda. It was directed at guns and gun owners, and used every minority group you could find, race, and sexual identity. Now, after Trump got elected unexpectedly, it is obvious both sides are baiting anyone to do something stupid so the lamestream media can use it and make up propaganda. Goebbles would be proud of how well it is working today. Question remains: who is running this?

Hi khalling,
I saw this the other day.
The left is pounding the racist label on to the dissatisfied Americans who voted no to the establishment and the PC disease. Never have I witnessed a more concerted effort to destroy our chosen President and to incite racial tensions. We do have a clear view of the statist collectivist ceo's who have walked away from Trump.
These intended violent protests unfortunately maybe just the early innings so to speak.
Racist radicals or anti-Fa are insignificant wastes.
All is an effort to further divide and funnel. It distracts from the ineptitude of congress to repeal the disastrous ACA. The attacks and lies and unfounded charges against Trump with no evidence is relentless.
An UN Civil war.

Go K! Doesn't surprise me.

To me, the most important aspect of this is that if you dig really deeply, you will discover that both sides are hiring agitators. The left is better at it than the right, but if you think this has any real grass roots foundation, you are delusional. Once again, for some reason the right summons up the specter of the NAZI while the left, if the right had the balls, should summon up our old pal, the Communists.This is merely a ploy to once againn, summon up the idea that the only reason Trump won was because the Nazis and the KKK threw their weight behind him and voted him in. Let me clue you in; if every nazi and every communist in the USA voted for Trump it would have made no difference at all in the final result.A few hundred thousan out of arounf 65 million. So let's just stop dignifying the insignificant with a staus they don't deserve.

there is definitely stuff behind the curtain...c'mon people

the point of the post is that an Obama shill got the permit, months ago. Finally, the ACLU supported him in court. I support the 1st Amendment. AGITATORS. watch in the coming months. anarchy foments

I just gave you a point

Man is the savior to all of this. Uniformed men are drags or can be evil