The Lack of Shame
The Lack of Shame
121107 jn
This is a true story. It happened exactly as described.
It was around noon on election day, November 6, 2012. I was sitting in McDonalds. A group of old retired men were enthusiastically talking about the election... saying nothing of note, but with much ignorance and stupidity. I stayed out of it. An employee of McDonalds was clearing a nearby table and quietly said to me, "This has been going on all day... I can't wait for this election to be over."
A couple was waiting in line. They were a typical, mid-forties, white, middle class couple. They were listening to the old guys discussing the election and the state of the union in general.
One of the retired guys said something negative about "Obama-Care" and the middle-class white guy in line turned to him suddenly and said, "Oh yeah, well I'll have you know that if it wasn't for Obama's healthcare plan, I wouldn't have any health insurance right now."
This silenced the old guys. He continued, appearing to speak to the room in general, "Obama made it possible for me to cut the cost of my insurance by over 80%, so I voted for him again."
The entire room was silent. Nobody said a word. Before I knew what I was doing, I heard myself addressing him.
"You actually sound like you're proud of that", I said.
"You're damn right I am," he replied indignantly.
"In other words, you're proud of the fact that instead of paying for your health insurance yourself, you and Obama have ganged up on ME and have forced me, at the point of a gun, to pay for part of your health insurance. You're actually PROUD of the fact that you are mooching off of me and all those people working behind the counter in McDonald's... that you're part of a gang that is using the power of the government to FORCE us to pay for your healthcare. Instead of feeling ashamed... instead of bowing your head and cowering in front of all the people you are depending on to pay for your healthcare insurance... instead of meekly thanking them for the sacrifices they are being forced to make in order to benefit YOU... instead, you stand there claiming that you're PROUD! What do you have to be PROUD of? Are you proud of the fact that you're unable or unwilling to take care of yourself? Are you proud of the fact that you're stealing part of their wages for your own personal greed? No... shame is what you should feel. Disgrace... embarassment... and gratitude... along with a strong dose of remorse... because YOU can't or won't take care of yourself and so you joined a mob of others who can't or won't take care of themselves... and together you've figured out how to force US to take care of you. Shame on you."
Nobody said a word. The guy was stunned and his wife stood there mortified. The room was absolutely silent for a moment, then one of the retired guys started clapping... and within a few seconds, he was joined by another... then by someone across the restaurant... and pretty soon it sounded like the entire restaurant was applauding.
I had delivered my little sermon while still seated at my table. I remained seated and looked down at my meal... angry at myself for having lost my temper and butting in rather than minding my own damn business.
Within a minute or so, the room quieted down again and everyone went about their business, pretending nothing had happenned.
Then I heard the guy quietly say to the McDonald's counter person, "Can I change my order... I'd like that, to-go please."
121107 jn
This is a true story. It happened exactly as described.
It was around noon on election day, November 6, 2012. I was sitting in McDonalds. A group of old retired men were enthusiastically talking about the election... saying nothing of note, but with much ignorance and stupidity. I stayed out of it. An employee of McDonalds was clearing a nearby table and quietly said to me, "This has been going on all day... I can't wait for this election to be over."
A couple was waiting in line. They were a typical, mid-forties, white, middle class couple. They were listening to the old guys discussing the election and the state of the union in general.
One of the retired guys said something negative about "Obama-Care" and the middle-class white guy in line turned to him suddenly and said, "Oh yeah, well I'll have you know that if it wasn't for Obama's healthcare plan, I wouldn't have any health insurance right now."
This silenced the old guys. He continued, appearing to speak to the room in general, "Obama made it possible for me to cut the cost of my insurance by over 80%, so I voted for him again."
The entire room was silent. Nobody said a word. Before I knew what I was doing, I heard myself addressing him.
"You actually sound like you're proud of that", I said.
"You're damn right I am," he replied indignantly.
"In other words, you're proud of the fact that instead of paying for your health insurance yourself, you and Obama have ganged up on ME and have forced me, at the point of a gun, to pay for part of your health insurance. You're actually PROUD of the fact that you are mooching off of me and all those people working behind the counter in McDonald's... that you're part of a gang that is using the power of the government to FORCE us to pay for your healthcare. Instead of feeling ashamed... instead of bowing your head and cowering in front of all the people you are depending on to pay for your healthcare insurance... instead of meekly thanking them for the sacrifices they are being forced to make in order to benefit YOU... instead, you stand there claiming that you're PROUD! What do you have to be PROUD of? Are you proud of the fact that you're unable or unwilling to take care of yourself? Are you proud of the fact that you're stealing part of their wages for your own personal greed? No... shame is what you should feel. Disgrace... embarassment... and gratitude... along with a strong dose of remorse... because YOU can't or won't take care of yourself and so you joined a mob of others who can't or won't take care of themselves... and together you've figured out how to force US to take care of you. Shame on you."
Nobody said a word. The guy was stunned and his wife stood there mortified. The room was absolutely silent for a moment, then one of the retired guys started clapping... and within a few seconds, he was joined by another... then by someone across the restaurant... and pretty soon it sounded like the entire restaurant was applauding.
I had delivered my little sermon while still seated at my table. I remained seated and looked down at my meal... angry at myself for having lost my temper and butting in rather than minding my own damn business.
Within a minute or so, the room quieted down again and everyone went about their business, pretending nothing had happenned.
Then I heard the guy quietly say to the McDonald's counter person, "Can I change my order... I'd like that, to-go please."
BTW do you know the financial forecasting work of Martin Armstrong? For 33 years he has never missed a turn. He is the real deal. He understands that there is no such thing as money, that currencies float against each other, that's all. http://armstrongeconomics.com/ Now the nasties will really come after me.
My income comes to my bank and I take all out immediately except for a very small amount to pay utility bills. The rest I sock away for the day the banks close down. Right now I have 4 brick in my bank vault because when the come to take that they ARE REALLY GOING TO BE PISSED.
Don't buy land unless you know how it can best be used.
THANKS and Bless you and yours.......
In these times unfortunately, moochers have no shame. They live by a new creed, "Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask rather how much you can mooch from your countrymen."
Just wait until Obamacare really kicks in and employers all discontinue their health plans in favor of the state and Fed exchanges. Few will pay for insurance until they get sick (the penalty being lower than premiums), then, since pre-existing conditions cannot be considered, they will jump into the pool as they take out an order of magnitude more benefits than they ever pay in. They will see nothing wrong with this because it is legal and cost effective to them. Maybe not to the rest of the tax paying public, but why care about them?
My point here is that, until I pointed out to this particular moocher that the appropriate response to his situation should be SHAME, he had NO IDEA!
He has been living under the false assumption that he has these benefits coming to him... that he is entitled to these benefits.
Why does he have these assumptions?
I submit that it is the fault of all those who have continued to support a society that fosters that mentality... by compromising with that society and hoping to manage to get along.
Very few readers of Atlas Shrugged come away understanding Ayn Rand's main point in the book.
Yes... they get the individualistic tone, and they appreciate the message regarding the difference between the "good-guy" producers vs. the "bad-guy" moochers... but her main point was first stated during the cocktail party where Francisco asked Rearden that all-important question:
"Who is the guiltiest man in the room?"
Unless and until you ask yourselves that question... and answer it rationally... you'll continue to blame the moochers and expect them to change.
You'll continue to feel frustrated and angry and sad and all the other emotions that come with viewing irrationality... but you'll be looking in the wrong direction.
WHY should the moochers act any differently than they do? Out of FAIRNESS to you?
No... they will continue to expect all of you to provide them with all their goodies until you, INDIVIDUALLY... say NO MORE!
No election will ever solve this problem.
Human nature will not change because you want it to.
Nietzsche... I'm not pointing this diatribe at you... based on other posts I have read from you, I think you are much more of a rational thinker than most of the members of the "Gultch".
If YOU... the presumably enlightened ones... continue to compromise... if you continue to act like Dagny and Rearden did... instead of emulating Galt himself... YOU will continue to be the problem!
In the 50's, when Rand wrote Atlas Shrugged, most people would have been embarrassed to take Relief and even bums going door to door (we lived along a railroad track, so I met quite a few) always asked if you had some chores they could perform in order to earn a meal. I never experienced anyone who just asked for a handout until I visited New York in the mid 60s. Our present society is programmed to accept handouts as a matter of course. Not being forced to hunt, the moochers choose to scavenge.
Perhaps the individual in your story felt shame, but I wonder. He was probably embarrassed, but that was more likely as a result of the crowd reaction. I doubt that he had any epiphany regarding personal responsibility. Atlas Shrugged is a novel set in a contrived fictional environment. With a wealthy patron, a force field and a secret valley, withdrawal may be an option. I do not have that option. If I refuse to pay my taxes, they will ultimately take my house. I did drop out of corporate America in disgust several years ago, but my old company has continued just fine without me and I experienced a severe drop in income. I am now self employed just scraping by. Saying "NO MORE!" is easy. Doing no more is bit more difficult.
I suppose you could withdraw to one of those survivalist compounds in Idaho, if they would let you in, but there is no force field and the authorities know exactly where the compounds are. This is a complex society and if things ever do crumble, there will be deaths in the thousands by the end of the second month and millions by the end of a year. Our population has grown to a point where it cannot be sustained without the present technological and social structure.
I do not believe that you have to change human nature in order to instill values. Some people will not change, but some will. We seen this throughout history time and again. Ultimately the tipping point will come when like minds acting in consort will affect a significant change or the society will fall. We have such an inertia in our present system, that I believe it will take a crisis to precipitate significant change. Perhaps it will be gas at $46.00 a gallon, perhaps that crisis will come when the entitlement checks start to bounce and the moochers realize there really is no more. Then they will hunt. I have no doubt about it.
The retired and on a fixed income citizens are the ones who are going to pay dear for those who refuse to have good work ethics.
DON'T BE AFRAID TO NAME THE ISSUE. Remember the power of a moral sanction -- or the withdrawal of same.
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.
There it is, Shrugger. That sums it all up. The sanction of the victim.
1. Confront bragging moochers.
2. Refuse to do business with moochers. (thanks Timelord)
Please add to the list everyone!
4. Do not do any business with them.
http://byutv.org/watch/d0f942b2-6b4f-492...
Our small country is tied financially and culturally to Greece. It tends to vote left, like Greece, it has a high dependency on government for jobs, pensions and a quiet life.
The goal of many Cypriots is to get a job with the government, indeed there is a long waiting list to get a job for life with no strife.
However, the Greek crisis has spilled over to our island and we are about to get the biggest bail out per head of population ever.
Like all European Union countries, the population has been bottle fed on dependency, my warning to all my friends in the USA is - don't go there - every penny you give in welfare will cost you a thousand dollars to get back.
Entitlement is the worse investment that you will ever make.
I love Cyprus, I want to live long enough to see a better more independent country, that is a hard enough task for us with just 800,000 people living here. I don't want to think how hard it will be for you my friends with your large and fast growing population do not go the euro way.
I haven’t been able to compose a sentence since Tuesday without expletives. Your story is the most inspirational thing I have read in a while. I am hoping to compose myself and contribute again soon. Thank you!
Regards,
O.A.
Yesterday I was on the phone with a niece who started to talk to me about the need for planned parenthood and how people have to have a place to go to get advice and birth control. Some place that is not your parents.
For background her mom and dad have been divorced, a couple of times she has borrowed money for books for college or other little things that have come up from me. I have helped her move and we have an OK relationship.
Her dad is out of the picture and her mother (my sister is extremely liberal, big government and things that socialism is the way we need to do everything in society.
I let her rattle for a minute and then interrupted her. The conversation went something like this.
"By what right do you justify stealing from me?"
"Why do you say that, I have never stolen anything from you."
"Did you go to planned parenthood and get Birth control?"
"Yes"
"who paid for it"
"It was free"
"Who paid for it?"
"I just said it was free?"
"Nothing is free, where did the money come from to pay for it?"
"The government"
"The government does not have any money of its own, It does not produce a good or service to make money, so they can pay for nothing. Who paid for it?"
"Taxes I guess?"
"Do I support Planned Parenthood?"
"No, you don't like it."
"Would I voluntarily give money to Planned Parenthood"
She laughed "Never in a million years."
"But My tax money has been given in part to planned parenthood. How did it get there?"
"Through Taxes"
"If I would never give my money voluntarily to planned parenthood, and yet money went there from me, what does that make the process that my money ended up in planned parenthood?"
"taxes"
"What would you call it when someone takes my money, under threat of incarceration and spends on something I do not want it spent on?"
I had a long pause, almost thought she had hung up. Then "Blackmail"
I then said "Planned parenthood has a right to exist, but only if can exist on its own merit or on the merit of those who voluntarily give funds to them. It has no right to exist on a system of blackmail and theft. When you use its services you committing the blackmail and theft, not the government as you are the one enabling the system that supports blackmail and theft. I know you are not a thief, you are better than that; so why do want to be a thief?"
"I do not want to be a thief!"
"Then choose not to be"
We then talked about a few other things and as the conversation wrapped up she said "I don't think its theft, but I am not sure what it is."
I did not get through to her completely, but I think she is thinking about it. I recieved a text earlier today "You really think its theft?" which I have not yet replied to.
We all have conversations and people we associate with that we may be able to reach and help to curb the direction. I do not know what else we can do, but this we can at every opportunity.
Her mother, my sister hardly talks to me because of my push against her big government will save all attitude and the fact that I push back against her every time she talks about it. I do worry that the same will happen with this neice, but how much worse would it be to
We have QE 1,2,3....(Quantitative easing). The government just prints money and gives it freely to planned parenthood and others. So, we have no worries. (Yes, said with sarcasm)
Regards,
O.A.
I'm clapping for you also. Thank you for addressing that moocher.
But, I don't agree that he had no idea that he should feel shame rather than pride. He didn't just roll off the turnip truck. More likely, deep down, he knows he should be ashamed but he and his wife and decided to just hook into the gravy train. I think that many people make a conscious decision to mooch as much as possible. They see others mooching, some may feel that they've never gotten anything for free and think it's about damn time that they get theirs.
Whatever you subsidize, you get more of.
1) Why were you upset about speaking up and speaking out.
2) Would you do it again? Would you do it more quickly or would it take more to get you to stand up again like this?
I am proud of you for stating it. I have friends that are no longer friends because I have done this. I have been undefended on Facebook by several people because I post things like this about it. A person I like very much, and have worked with for 18 years has an autistic son and Obamacare made it easier for him to pay for insurance. A similar conversation cost me that friendship. At the time I felt like I had done the wrong thing, but later in hind sight; it was so worth it. I stood by the truth and my principles.
I think you should be proud of this, and repeat it at any and all opportunity.
After spending several decades "tilting at windmills", I have come to learn that I must pick and choose my battles carefully.
A number of years ago I finally got it into my head that I was NEVER going to change the minds of everyone... and that it wasn't necessary to do so.
There are actually SO MANY OF US... I know it doesn't look that way... but it's true. Unfortunately... most people that have a "heart for liberty" have never taken the time to learn about or have never been adequately exposed to the truth... to rational thought.
I have decided that it is more rational for me to interact with those who I might have a reasonable chance of influencing... those who are already predisposed to libertarian principles and only require a small amount of additional knowledge or enlightenment to be allies in my crusade.
The "Gultch" is more appropriate than McDonalds as a forum for thiese types of discussions.
As for whether I would do it again... I wish I could say "yes"... because I believe that if we ALL spoke out in likewise fashion the moochers would begin to learn that their days are numbered... but to be honest... I'm not sure.
But I would sure like to see someone else speaking out... I'd even buy 'em an Ice Tea off the Dollar Menu!!!
While the subject is too important to thoroughly cover in this string, and probably deserves a separate posting of its own... let me briefly address it here.
Ayn Rand abhorred the concept of altruism... which is a philosophical belief that it is morally appropriate that a being sacrifice itself for the sake of the group to which it belongs.
Many misunderstand her position. They equate her disdain for altruism as an attack on compassion in general. Ayn Rand never spoke against compassion... and reason dictates that compassion have a place in our lives as rational beings who must rely on voluntary interaction between like-minded individuals in order to thrive in this world.
The difference between altruism and compassion is a question of self-sacrifice.
Compassion is defined as a "deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it."
Compassion becomes altruism when an entity chooses to sacrifice itself in order to alleviate that suffering.
It becomes pure evil when it chooses to sacrifice someone else in order to alleviate the suffering of itself or another.
And, by the way, compassion had absolutely NOTHING to do with why Roark secretly designed Cortland... neither compassion for those who would live there... nor compassion for Keating.
It easier when young and healthy to think things will never make you change what you think the world should be like. It took friends to drag me to file for help. So if you want me say thank you, I am willing to say it. Also one think that many people seem to forget she spoke of Looters and those who get laws change so they can take from those who create wealth. Not just make up ways to steal other people retirement. I see the government and Wall Street are more that kind. No, I do not belong in Gulch. But I still want the third film to come to big screen. It a world I wish did live.
One is that I found this link on my brothers page. His kids were paid for by the state. His lack of taking care of himself has caused him I'll health. He is currently a healthcare moocher. My brother and many other people I know seem to think that they are of the 1% and support a lot of policy that would leave them completely destitute. I found out earlier today that when my brother was in high school he would sit on the street corner and talk to himself and then not go to school. His support of this kind of rhetoric just shows his mental issues.
Next on the shame list are insurance companies who have priced citizens out of insurance and cancelled policies of those that are sick to give ridiculous bonuses to CEOs. Shame, shame indeed
... and for running an insurance company as if it were, well, an actual insurance company instead of a social welfare agency.
Not any more. Any discussion with these people will end the same way Eddie Willers' discussion with James Taggart did in the novel's first chapter:
"...he had decided to make the issue clear for once, and the issue was so clear, he thought, that nothing could bar it from Taggart's understanding, unless it was the failure of his own presentation. So he had tried hard, but he was failing, just as he had always failed in all of their discussions; no matter what he said, they never seemed to be talking about the same subject."
We've done the "less confrontational" approach for fifty years. The haters have now pushed us into a corner and are now deliver the coup de grâce. You don't fool with the Socratic method when someone has a gun in your face.
And when it came to those "unfortunate circumstances", as it turns out they were all avoidable and came about because of a series of poor choices on his part.
I met him through a mutual friend (after his 3rd bankruptcy) after he moved back to my state from AZ. He was coming back here to live with his sister and brother-in-law so he could get free medical care for a number of chronic conditions. He was always complaining how long he had to wait for free appointments,how he spent hours in the waiting room and how hard it was to schedule surgeries.
A couple of times I tried to have conversations where I gently tried to get him to realize that his medical care wasn't FREE and that he was actually forcing me to pay for his care through my taxes and higher medical costs. He never got it.
He was pretty good company, and an excellent handy-man, so I paid him to do some interior painting, repair some cracks in the walls, replace a light switch or two and to mouse-proof, rewire, insulate and put up new wallboard in a special-purpose outbuilding on my property. He did quality work - but he asked me to make the checks out to his sister because if his bank account showed incoming money it would affect his free medical care and his impending admission to the rolls of social security disability. I refused to be a party to that and made the check out to him.
It was shortly after that when I decided that I didn't value his companionship or his handy-man skills as much as I valued my own integrity. I hired someone else to finish the job.
Our mutual friend told me about a year after that that he'd declared his 4th bankruptcy, had his new car repossessed and had been accepted into SSI disability (even though he can work). I said, "Thanks for the update but I don't really want to talk about Dennis. I'm too disgusted by his behavior."
You're right that the decision to report or not report is his own business - but by enabling him to hide his income I am working against my own rational self-interest by raising my own taxes and medical costs (as a result of having to pay my share of his *free* care). Not only that, but I'm forcing my neighbors to do the same. In objectivist terms that's a worse breach.
If he wasn't on the gov't dole (i.e. being in receipt of stolen money) then I would have had no problem paying him in cash or making out the check to whomever he asked. I have often paid in cash (e.g. a mason who rebuilt a retaining wall and stairs) and in return I got a better price and paid no sales tax. I have no moral issue with avoiding sales tax - or any other taxes for that matter. And my mason and his crew aren't claiming gov't largesse.
I also have to ask, in what way was the government screwing HIM? He's the recipient of many thousands of dollars of "free" medical care. The truth of the matter, of course, is that some of his care is paid for by his neighbors' taxes (Medicaid), some by extorting the hospital (gov't rules that force hospitals to provide care at below cost) and of course by jacking up the costs to those of us who do pay. In fact, those who self-fund their medical care get screwed the worst since they pay even higher rates than those negotiated by insurance providers.
So I'm modding him back up to a +1. Not because I agree with him but because I think his point deserves some discussion.
I’m curious. Where will that Gulch be? Are you planning on staying in your current town/location? Or will you be moving to another place within the U.S.? Or outside the U.S.?
First impression: Somebody has been doing a lot of acid.
There's nothing there on that site; just a bunch of random words strung into meaningless sentences. No structure, no organization.
Not one coherent thought; just meaningless glop. The very kind of stuff we've come to expect from acidheads.
You see, I used to live in Eugene, Oregon. I've known a LOT of stoners.
see also: "went to an engineering school instead and got a degree in something that is actually useful in the Real World"
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