This is so hardcore. As a military brat with 2 brothers, my father was away quite a bit. Much like a single mother, my mother, with 3 children, had her hands full keeping us fed, out of trouble, and socialized (read exposed to other kids through scouting, sports, etc). She often tells a story about me as a young child. Apparantly, I was using plaid sheets to learn multiplication and area calculations long before I should have been. By the 3rd grade, when included in a rare, advanced, self-learning math program, I reached a 9th grade level. My parents knew early that I would outgrow their ability to teach me anything very quickly.

I am grateful for my public education with respect to fundamental reading, writing, math, geometry, physics, chemistry, etc.

That said, when I demanded an explanation of why phosphorus defied the octet rule in AP chemistry, I was sent to the principal's office.

I had the fortune to be in TAG/GT programs from an early age, and was granted a degree of freedom to use my sponge (a.k.a. brain) on topics of interest.

While I cannot deny that public education is beyond the scope of a government's functions, I cringe to think of what life might have been like for me without it.

Anything run by government union is inherently evil. Thumbs up for the topic.

The concept of public education is founded on the principle that government is the best educator of your children. The fact that some of us has benefited from it does not change this, nor the evil that is at the source of this concept. I count myself fortunate that I went to a school where the teachers were fantastic and at a time when intellectual curiosity was considered an asset.
At the heart of public education, however, is indoctrination. Let’s not forget this. It is most evident in the fact that school children are forced, day after day for 12 years, to begin their day parroting “The Pledge of Allegiance.” They are never told why, nor where this pledge came from. They grow up thinking that saying the Pledge is some kind of holy ritual of patriotism, when, in fact, it is not.
If you asked your garden-variety American “conservative” if he would welcome his children reciting something that was initiated by a proclaimed socialist, you’d receive an indignant response. And yet, that is exactly what the Pledge is. It has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers nor with the founding of this nation and its ideals; it was an invention of the 1890s and was instilled in our schools primarily as a tool of indoctrination. At the beginning, the salute was made with the right arm uplifted. That was changed to a reverent hand-over-the-heart when the Nazis co-oped the salute.
When I became aware of the origins of the Pledge in the late 1980s, I lost all respect for this ritual and became an advocate against its use. It is only one form of indoctrination that children receive in school, but it is the most obvious. American history, as it is taught in the schools, is another form of indoctrination. We are taught that the “great” presidents are those who pushed their powers beyond the Constitution, who involved their countrymen in war, and who inserted government into the economic and personal transactions of so-called “free” individuals. Children grow up taking it for granted that there is no area of life in which government doesn’t have authority. They are taught that there is no problem that government can’t solve.
The purpose of public education is not to teach children how to think independently, but to teach them how to be docile, obedient, and unquestioning citizens of the State. How evil is that?
Here is a timely link to the Future of Freedom Foundation, and the latest blog of its founder, Jacob Hornsberger: http://fff.org/2013/09/12/the-most-borin...
Don’t question the underlying evil of an institution just became some people manage to derive some good from it.

Parents? If there are 2, they are too busy working or from what we see in public, the news, by the popularity of certain shows, and too self absorbed and scattered between tweeting and texting to make a lesson plan.

You've got to read "The New Abolitionism: Why Education Emancipation is the Moral Imperative of our Time" by C. Bradley Thompson: http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issu...

"I begin with my conclusion: The 'public' school system is the most immoral and corrupt institution in the United States of America today, and it should be abolished. It should be abolished for the same reason that chattel slavery was ended in the 19th century: Although different in purpose and in magnitude of harm to its victims, public education, like slavery, is a form of involuntary servitude. The primary difference is that public schools force children to serve the interests of the state rather than those of an individual master."

No, the government run schools are evil because they are based upon the initiation of force. The whole system is based on force. From it's revenue source (taxiation) to it's forced demand (compulsory attendance laws). This government instituted initiation of force is an immoral violation of individual's rights.

Public education is evil on these counts:

1. Education is a service. No one has a "right" to a "service," except for three specific services. These services all have to do with the management of physical force and the protection of such rights as a person does have. And they are:

Police

Military

Courts of law

Education is NOT one of them.

2. Government education becomes indoctrination. Any government is at moral hazard, and subject to a temptation to promote values--there's that word again--that the government knows is most condusive to its own power and its ability to do special favors for people.

Absolutely not. Public education is the only compulsory attempt to fight ignorance and idiocy in this country. If you find that the curriculum or the politics don't jive with your own, then feel free to withdraw your student and send them to an educational institution of your choosing. However, as there will always be parents who are not very worried about doing what is necessary to make their offspring into productive citizens, I will continue to attempt to stamp out ignorance whenever it rears its head in my classroom.

I will leave you with Ms. Rand's ideas on education.

“The only purpose of education is to teach a student how to live his life-by developing his mind and equipping him to deal with reality. The training he needs is theoretical, i.e., conceptual. He has to be taught to think, to understand, to integrate, to prove. He has to be taught the essentials of the knowledge discovered in the past-and he has to be equipped to acquire further knowledge by his own effort.”
Ayn Rand, author of The Fountainhead, Anthem, & Atlas Shrugged

Actually the quote is "Judge and be prepared to be judged." (pg 73 of 'Virtue')

I shrugged in high school. It felt like prison to me. I did just enough to get out.... and I copied half of that.
Learning on my own has worked well for me.

Actually, I live in Texas but have friends who live in Canon City, whom I got to visit summer a year ago. Took a trip on my 1983 Honda GL 650 Silverwing Interstate. What a blast.

Sorry for the long delay in replying. Had to make a fast trip to San Antonio this AM. Left at 0615 and got back at 1230. As for my comment anent your possible silence in the face of my prior post, I did notice you were speechless to someone else's post (I think KH), so I wondered if my post above might have placed youi in the same situation, and the same for KH. That's all I meant.

nope. trying to eat out the heart of the beast. There is no way any candidate for PResident in the next 20 years will abolish DoE. But vouchers? you can get people on both sides to agree to that. The more cards you hold in your hands, the better off you are. IN plain sight, charters are doing great things. My nieces and nephews attend this charter, along with Michelle Malkin's children-
http://www.cmca12.com/
The main adviser to the HS and the economics teacher is a former Reagan economic adviser. He also runs the pikes Peak Economics club:
https://pikespeakeconomicsclub.com/CMS/P...
in plain sight j, in plain sight

"Public Education is evil because...."
Its no longer simply education, its social engineering and indoctrination.

Clamshells? What clamshells? I was too busy dancin' an' jammin', mon.

It is evil because the Govt controls the curriculum, even for schools that are privately funded. It uses the curriculum to brainwash everyone into thinking in leftist-green mode, not only culturally, but also economically (as if Keynesian macro-economics is a valid science). Only a few escape the brainwashing.

Public highways are evil. Public museums are evil. Although most NFL teams are moral, the Green Bay Packers are evil.

Public education is in a long, long failure mode for many reasons. However, it was begun with all the right intentions. Taxpayers vote to support local schools. They elect the local school board. Local school board elections in the 1830s in Kentucky seem to be first instances of women as property owners being allowed to vote.

Public education is a reflection of the high value that we place on education. By the 1850s Ohio alone had more colleges and universities than all of Europe. The Morrill Land Grant created the agricultural colleges that today we call Michigan State and Pennsylvania State Universities.

One of the prime, core motives for public education was the socialization of immigrants to American values.

Public education, like public roads, and public sewers, and public parks, is not the proper business of government. ...

But, what if I want to build a private community... (See where this is going?) ... The contract says that you will do this or that with your garbage and your dog's poop and that you will mow your lawn and BTW we have a school... Don't move here if you don't like it, but once you buy in, then the whole package is yours.

So, the problem is not really public schools, but (1) who controls them and therefore (2) what they teach.

And I gave Wonky a Thumbs Up. I do not agree with all of it. High school sucked for me, too, but, that said, I learned a lot. I, too, was tracked into the Academically Talented cohort -- but I had to goto summer school get into AP because I was not tracked into that.

Could I have learned more by some other method, some miracle of the free market? Quite likely. And if we had not fought two world wars, we could have been on the Moon by 1950. And a lot of things would be different if they were different.

Well said, Shrug. My daughter (a senior this year) doesn't buy into the tripe they hand out in school. She doesn't do drugs (hates them and what they do to her classmates), believes in chastity (in fact, doesn't really care about dating), and to a surprising degree, is thrifty. It's what happens when parents are engaged in their children's lives.

Some parents are too stupid and lazy, but the gov enables them to be so and the gov uses that opportunity to teach kids whatever they see fit. (What is the state compelling parents to do??) The parents don't pay attention (even if they are they don't SEE all the little socialist morsels being indoctrinated).
Free lunch for ONE example.... what messages does getting a "free" lunch instill into a small mind? (regardless of circumstance). That the school (aka the gov) will make sure all my needs are met. And we wonder why we're looking at the laziest, most demanding, complacent, backwards thinking, stoned generation we've ever seen. Not to mention disgustingly wasteful and unappreciative.

Well let's logically think about this... Government the most evil and inefficient thing in the universe, and we want it to educate our children?

Let us call it what it really is. A prison for young minds. They are built like juvinile detention centers, surrounded with camera that watch you from one end of the hallway to the other. They are stripped of all constitutional rights, they have no right to free speech, only to freely listen. They have no right to religion nor liberty nor happiness., Instead children are taught to conform to the ideals of current government, and scorned for innovation and inquiries.

I heard in an essay kintergarten compared to military boot camp and rightly so. Modern education is creating slaves for the future just as bootcamp creates soldiers.

They are not educational centers, these schools teach what to think, what to believe, how to perceive the world infront of them, they are machines of mental slavery, making idiots out of the general public.

Its no secret teachers do not choose what to teach, they are only instructed what to teach and how to teach it. They are roman lecters imposing pain of degradation on the great minds of our children on the behalf of Cesars.

If the government had to shut down, I think the school should be one of the first to go.
.

The Union is a lot to blame, plus Liberal teachers, are led by PC crap! Schools, (due to Government) are only there to teach PC, program young children they must accept homosexuality as normal, and to be tolerant, as they teach deceitful, so-called history and Obama's Agenda. When and why did we ever allow the school system to go to hell in a hand-basket, with Government deciding what our children should learn? No matter what we think, as we are too stupid to be aware or smart enough to do that job.

As for Wonky, I'd love to know when and where she went to her wonderful, public schools! As for me, I agree with her, for the most part, if she attended in the 50's and early 60's, like I did. But, she didn't mention daily prayers and the Pledge of Allegiance, which was the norm for me. And, not all got trophies, or passing grades, no matter whether they were earned or not.

Can we not see where this is going? If not, then they are right in that we are stupid! You can write about satan, (refuse to cap the first letter) but not God or Jesus. They can check out any books on witchcraft, astrology, numerology, and satan's bible, but not the Holy Bible! No more Christian songs or Christmas songs, nor any kind of prayers. However, no laws exist to prevent these things, just fears of offending one's civil rights and/or somebody's feelings. It's actually fears of the ACLU, formed in 1928 by Communists! And, we let them get away with it? Yes, because nobody wants to stir up trouble. Well, just keep sticking your heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't involve you. But, rest assured, the day is on the horizon, as your day is coming, and sooner than you think! When that happens, never mind, it will be too late.

Political Correct crap, will destroy our once great, powerful USA. That used to stand for the United States of America.....Thanks to Obama and the Dem Party, (most of them, not all) we are so not united, but a race war, or any type of war they can create.

No, I did not vote for Obama, skin clor had nothing to do with it. It's called experience, of which he had none! Also, I didn't like his voting, or lack thereof, nor his past, which is still a real mystery, with all records sealed! But, I do pray for him daily, as he is the President. I still have a real problem with his remark in his book, "The Audacity of Hope, where on page 261, he said, "Should the winds of change shift, I will stand behind the Muslims." Sorry, but that does disturb me. Furthermore, I do not want to be Europenized, keep that across the pond. It isn't working there either, or anywhere for that matter, so why does he insist on that? Not to mention his stance on Israel, who just might end up saving us, befoe all is said and done. I will not go off on the "phony scandals" with the IRS, NSA, Fast & Furious, HIS RED LINE, that was suddenly not his, but I will share my awful anger on BENGHAZI and how his "Apology Tour," where none of them have become our FRIENDS.
No, America is now so weak our enemies are rejoicing, laughing and our worst enemies are now enboldened and no one fears the mighty power of America. They see us as very weak and by no means a leader. It infuriates me when I recall how we saved most of those Countries in WWI & WWII! Oh, how the mighty has fallen.
The best way to settle the crisses in the Middle East, Russia, Afganistan, Iraq, Pakistan and N. Korea is to send all of his Advisors, Czars and Cabinet Members over to those Countries. I'm sure within or less than 6 months, they would be so screwed up, they would forget what their intentions were! I have not gotten to our OPEN BORDERS either. Are you aware of the 50 gal containers of water, in numerous places across the border? Or with a red button to push for on a large sign written in 3 different languages, to call for help? Or the Korans & Prayer Logs left behind from the Radical Muslims, Hezbolah & Drug Cartels working together, coming to America? Know this, I spent 20 years in upper management, as City MGR., in Car Rentals w/5 Companies, and other businesses. I hired illegal
immigrants, Muslims, (good ones) Blacks and all at the same wages as the whites! I was able to get green cards for most, (this was in the 70's & 80's). They were great, honest, hard working employees. I loved them all and they returned that love & respect a hundred fold. So, don't even think about pointing that accusing finger of
racism to me! But, now days, I believe it should have be legal to enter this Country and no over-staying Visas! 9-11 could have & should have been avoided. I already imagine that today's, horrific shooting at the Navel Shipping Yard in DC, will be another "Work Place Violence," again. Obama cannot say, "terrorist attack." He would be from Ft. Worth, TX. I live in TX. Gov. Perry's push TX. TX is very corrupt with the legal system! I wrote a book, "A Judicial Terror in TX."

I love they way j_IR1776wg & LetsShrug thinks!
But, saddly & unfortunately, I fear we are a minorty.

The system is broken, as government schools start from kindergarten on teaching socialism, anti-capitalism, collectivism and subtle to outright disrespect for parents.
Early on, personal supplies are put in a group box to be shared, with no thought for personal responsibility for those items.
Later, they are taught that parents don't understand students like their peers do, and they should make their own decisions without parents (age 8). A former union member once admitted it, and then complained when they later turned against teachers. When asked if they did not turn them against adults, she replied, "But, I did not think they would turn against us (teachers)."
The NEA published a teachers-only book, "Change Agents Guide" (I have a copy). It taught how to turn around parents' objections to goofy curriculum.
Students rank 25th in the world, and teacher IQs have now dipped to an average mere 110, on par with the mainstream media. Student IQs fall the longer they are in public schools..Yet, they feel it is fine to tell children their parents know nothing, even though parents' IQs are very often higher. Sadly, too many parents are giving up the child rearing responsibility to lesser intelligence, falling for this propaganda.
Turned against capitalism and big business, students are taught they should start out making $100,000, or it is beneath them. This is not how economics works. Teachers tell students they "deserve" to make this - based on what?
Ayers-like Common Core now is schools in most states, and will rewrite history while leading students toward a more Marxist mindset."Rights" are stressed, but few teachers follow it with any mention of "responsibility".
Bogus global warming and pro-Agenda 21 ideas come by high school.
Trust government schools - it would be safer to trust Putin.

The evil is government indoctrination. Government "education" is not required. Lincoln had only one year of formal education. Most of the schools today (public and private) are full of "Micky Mouse" classes and stupid socialistic teachers.

Liberty is in danger of becoming extinct. Socialists began infiltrating the educational systems starting back around the end of the 19th century. They have succeeded magnificently. Students are now indoctrinated with the Socialist philosophy at every level of public and private education.
To preserve liberty, we must encourage our people to get into the educational systems as teachers, administrators and members of the school boards. I would like to see the Conservative organizations like the Tea Party sponsor scholarships and educational foundations to promote our cause.
Talk radio and political speeches are not enough.
Soon, liberty will be found only in history books.